Back to standard ISO hot shoe. Good or Bad move from Sony?
Yesterday I told you that with the A99 Sony will move “back” to a standard ISO Hot Shoe. The question now is:
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Our reader Klipsen shared the link to a list of third party flashes available on BHphoto (Click here).
Tanglefoot
10 months ago |I think it all depends how it is implemented – if it is just the standard ISO hot shoe with their own flash protocol then I really don’t see much of an advantage & I dont see them adopting either the Canon or Nikon protocol…
The Sony iISO hot shoe is better than the ‘standard’ ISO one in most regards except for the amound of accessories available when it is used as a cold shoe. If there is a need for more contacts I believe the iISO had 5 contacts at one point so it would be easy to modify it & retain adaptability with older Sony flashes.
If Sony do a modified standard ISO hot shoe that allows the ability to use standard ISO shoe accessories but can retain the ease of use & physical security of the iISO shoe then it might not be a bad thing…
Jakob Røjel
10 months ago |I agree that the ISO is a step backwards but it is always the argument against Sony (despite the fact that an adapter is very cheap).
So from a marketing perspective, I think that it is a clever move.
hanugro
10 months ago |don’t really care as long as they give free adapter to future camera 10 years from now then make it as a cheap accessories. As long as it is a one hand operation to load/unload flash on camera bodies like current hotshoe.
sholky
10 months ago |Definitely a good move, tons of times I’ve found myself in a situation where I was saying something like “I couldn’t do that because Sony is the only one with a different hot shoe”.
Matgay
10 months ago |Worse thing Sony ever did was create the NEX hotshoe. How well was that received compared to when it was rid of in the nex7? How many flashes did it have? 1
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Like what sholky? Please describe one instance that iISO prevented you from doing something.
Jan Matis
10 months ago |i’ll tell you one. At our local photo club we had an opportunity to play with “pro” light set and model. Guess what I was doing since the guy who brought it had only ISO trigger ?
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Why would you rely on what someone else brings to a shoot?
Mats
10 months ago |I sm very durprised over the poll result. Personally I think Sony losed one of its sdvantsges, but it is not thst important. They mudt have done it agter careful investigation and it is not teally a showstopper eithrr way thry choose. Go Sony!
/Mats
Mats
10 months ago |Sorry for the spelling. Fst fingrrd on a cell phone.
TomiZG
10 months ago |Yes yes and yes.
1. The plastic mount breaks too easily (happened already)
2. It’s hard to get pocket wizard stuff. Pixel soldiers work but it will be nice to be able to use many more products which are one the market.
3. The 4 little contact dots are often full of dust and communication w flash fails often (thats why I have a little toothbrush in my bag LOL)
Having 4 Sony flashes I don’t mind the iso shoe changing nevertheless. If adapters come, that’s fine for me.
ep
10 months ago |i really like the iISO hotshoe then others.
i need to point out few issue that people thinks only apply to iISO… it does break, but not that easily compare to ISO… i mean the ISO hotshoe on the camera wont break, but the other ISO shoe on the Canon or Nikon flash gets rips off and it becomes “beyond” repair as it rips the ‘cables’ too (require soldering or change of whole circuit board that cost as much as a new flash). as for iISO, its only like USD15 for the spare iISO on the camera body, and USD10 for the iISO on the flash body with ribbon cable.
as for dirty contact, i used D90 with sb900 (3 unit of them) often… and it does cause misfire and random firing due to dirty contact on the flash.
if u notice, iISO is just a turn around of ISO shot, the male become female, and female become male… turn ur camera upsidedown, and the flash downsideup, u notice they resemble the ISO hotshoe. so they both iISO and ISO hotshoe will HAVE similar issue anyway.
pocket wizard are expensive, not everyone afford them. kinda pointless too.
use sony own’s WL protocol for sony flash for HSS.
use Phottix Statros II (i used them, love them, never fail on me nor missfire ever), limited sync speed.
i still prefer iISO hotshoe… i do not like ripped off hotshoe like nikon/canon.
Allan Olesen
10 months ago |And you expect that your Pocket Wizards for Canon or Nikon will suddenly work with the a99 if it gets an ISO hot shoe?
What about protocols? They are different.
So Pocket Wizard will have to make new models for the Sony protocol anyway. If they found it worth the effort to do so, they had already done it by now. The shoe shape is not much of a barrier.
Or perhaps you are satisfied with “dumb” flash communication? Well, then you could already achieve your goal with cheap adapters for the existing Sony shoe.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Pocket Wizard doesn’t make units for Oly, Panny, Leica, Pentax with ISO mount. What makes you think they’ll make for Sony ISO? It’s not the mount. It’s the protocol popularity.
Pixel Kings make NATIVE iISO with full TTL/HSS function. Great units. And now we’ll have to use an adapter for them on the a99? The one unit that works will now require adapter.
Zachery
10 months ago |Who even puts a flash on the hotshoe anymore? If you do… learn to flash better. Every Sony shooter I know uses an adapter for some besides alpha/minolta flashes. It’s usually a radio trigger, but sometimes it’s a video light panel or a microphone.
This practical matter coupled with the stigma of the cheap-ass plastic, non-standard hotshoe has always marred the Minolta/Sony brand in the eyes of users of other systems.
sholky
10 months ago |Have you ever done event photography for a client? Obviously not.
P.S. Forgot to mention before, the plastic mount on my Alpha has been broken for some time now and every time I shoot i have to tilt the flash backwards to have contact. So much for it being better than ISO.
frank
10 months ago |So I guess photojournalists are stupid for mounting a flash on the hot-shoe then…and wedding togs…?
The mount doesn’t have to be plastic either.
Where do these people come from making dumb comments?
TomiZG
10 months ago |Yeah, quite a few experienced event and wedding photographers around.
As long as I know, on Dyxum people are complaining about the crappy plastic shoe. And it does break easily. Now Sony makes a good move and addresses this issue and the haters come all out. Whatever. Not like they are buying the a99 so what…
Dalek
10 months ago |Assimilation is inevitable. Resistance is futile.
Joe
10 months ago |** ATTENTION: NERD ALERT ** STAR TREK COMMENTS ARE JUVENILE
Gadge
10 months ago |Yawn…
emopunk
10 months ago |I agree that plastic hotshoe is dumb and looks really cheap. Anyway, Andrea, why I don’t see a vote button for this poll?
Pei
10 months ago |Not on Chrome but it shows up on IE.
Mike
10 months ago |If done right, it is a good move. Let’s hope for:
- full backwards compatibility with the Minolta hotshoe (adapter) -> call it “legacy mode”
- basic compatibility with Nikon/Canon/3rd party flashes
- for new Sony flashes, a new, flexible, extensible protocol also to be used for various other accessories
None of that should really be difficult to implement. The hot shoe has enough pins to run a serial like USB protocol over it that can be used for different accesoires and new flashes alike.
If you change the hot shoe in the year 2012, you better make sure the change has benefits and uses state-of-the-art electronics rather than 20+ years old protocols like before.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |They already have “legacy mode”. Put an ISO adapter on iISO = “legacy mode”.
Gato
10 months ago |As an outsider considering a move to Sony, I see a standard hotshoe as a slight plus. I can share triggers and some flashes with my other cameras without having to keep up with an adapter.
An adapter is just one more piece to have to worry about being misplaced or lost, plus one more set of electrical contacts to go wrong. Not very expensive, but as a somewhat paranoid former pro I keep at least 2 of everything and it does add up. So I’m happier without it, though not a deal breaker either way.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |You don’t want to “keep up with an adapter”… fine.
But now I’ll have to “keep up with an adapter” just to keep my native flash working.
Brilliant concept Sony… “Let’s make our native flash mount require an adapter”. Just brilliant.
icie
10 months ago |I think the move to standard ISO hotshoe is good. Personally, when I go to events, I put the Sony HVL-F58AM on my Nikon camera using an adapter. It works, but is a shakey solution. Having that quick shift bounce system (which IMO is the best thing about Sony flashes) directly couple to the camera would be great.
That said, the iISO mount is actually superior to the standard hotshoes, because of the quick release capability.
But like many have pointed out, the plastic makes it very easy to break. I have broken my Sony flash hotshoes twice while in strobist mode when they fell over, but have yet to break the hotshoe on even the cheapest Yongnuo flashes despite things falling over more than a couple of times over the years.
Sony could have perfected it by making the whole thing metal, of course, but personally, because of how I shoot, it’s good news.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Great… I’m glad for you that Sony is accommodating a tog who puts Sony flash on a Nikon body. Very thoughtful of them. Good for you.
I wish they’d put as much effort into supporting togs who use Sony flash on Sony cameras.
Bruno_dn
10 months ago |The hot shoe on SonyPro broadcast cine and video cameras are standard iso. As Sony works on the convergence between video and photography and as the photo high end products of the photo division are supposed to work as complement to the Sony broadcast division, it was written since a long time for me. Do you imagine Sony Pro video accessories not working on the A99, and as Sony try to build with the A99 a serious challenger to high end Canon and Nikon stuffs like EOS 5DIII or D800 for cine and video? Come on!
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Those aren’t “HOT” shoes. They are cold, just a mounting platform. Easily accommodated by a variety of dumb adapters.
But now I’m supposed to use a smart adapter to keep my native flash working? Just so someone can have an extra spot for their mic?
oy
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |OMG if you want ISO then put an adapter on it. Please don’t make my flash gear non native.
Bruno_dn
10 months ago |I think that Sony just doesn’t give a [beep] about your personnal point of view. I’m personnaly sorry for that because I could think exactly like you. So, you have two solutions. To leave Sony or adapt yourself. By the way, we (I got a collection of Minolta and Sony flash, since… The 360 PX -which is ISO mount, almost 30years ago, until the hvl-f58am) will have a new photo-[video] line adapted to standard VIDEO accessory mount. I work in video with Sony camera pwv EX1/3 and will discover soon the FS700. They’re all equipêd with… Iso accessory mount. And I’ll be personnaly happy to join my video accessory stuffs on the ‘Nine-Nine’. Without breaking anything with stupid adapters. Did you ever work with some HF Camera Receivers, gun microphones and so on? Did you ever see a Canon EOS 5DII/III equiped for video? I’m sorry. But this is just no more professional to keep the good old Minolta accessory mount. Video. This is the magic word you must keep in your mind when you think about the future in high end photography camera body. But I understand you could not like that.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Here’s another perspective Bruno… and thanks for speaking yours well.
All these “rigging accessories” are cold, dumb mounts. Nothing smart about them.
An innovative visionary designer would have seen this as opportunity to evolving iISO into the most robust (metal) and intelligent mounting system ever. An integrated line of mics, lights, monitors, recorders, flashes could all be –powered and smart connected– directly through an improved iISO… NO CABLES! All with quick snap one handed pleasure of iISO mount superiority. All lighter because they’re powered by camera, integrated into camera menu system too. Make it lego style and allow metal iISO to be stackable and smart throughout.
That would get competitor customers looking at Sony. And give existing Sony owners a real pride of purchasing into the most robust intelligent, legacy compatible system. That would be a real selling point to create wanderlust in new customers.
Adapters should be cheap and reserved for extreme externals that don’t require smart connections. Native should be super intelligent, power friendly, and stable.
Bruno_dn
10 months ago |I understand your point. But the world is always going to more standardization, even if standardization means less than more. Might is right… Does the world will change? No. World is still the same. It is just poorer and poorer. Except if you consider there is only wealth but men. These photo stuffs are only tools, after all.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |SAR… Really misleading people by your irresponsible use of the word “standard”. The Mino iISO has been the “standard” Alpha mount for 25 years.
What special accessory does iISO prevent using?
Pocket Wizard doesn’t make units for Leica, Panny, Oly, Pentax with ISO. They won’t suddenly start making them for Sony just because ISO either.
But now you can get a proper iISO Pixel King with full function TTL/HSS for a great price… And IT WILL REQUIRE ADAPTER???
The Lunatics are running the asylum.
explorer76
10 months ago |I am sorry that your current alpha flashes will become non-native. However as you yourself suggested in other posts, you can use an adapter – problem solved. On a more serious note Sony should have made the switch much earlier and then we would not have this problem.
I don’t see what advantage does it provide to the system to have a hot shoe different from every other camera system on the planet.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |The advantage, one hand quick snap release. Supremely easy setup. An important convenience for guys like me who make their living as strobist.
Here’s an example of my last shoot using one flash three ways:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/one-flash-three-ways-pixel-king-report_topic90145.html
Here’s another:
http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/korn-publicity-photos_topic89701.html
You can see I use the Mino/Sony iISO mounting system a great deal. See more on my web site. The quick set up in the field is invaluable to me. It’s been a “standard” for 25 years. We’ve waited long and patiently for a Pixel King full TTL/HSS native mount slave. We’ve got it now… only to find out an adapter is needed to make it work with new a99.
I wonder how many of the SAR Poll Results are from togs who use the iISO flash on a regular basis.
_________
What makes more sense? To need an adapter to use with other cameras? Or to need an adapter to use for native mount?
Bruno_dn
10 months ago |wrong post. Sorry
explorer76
10 months ago |I am happy that Sony is switching to standard/commonly used hot shoe. I use my flashes in manual mode anyway, so I like to use the same flashes with different cameras. And Sony always gave me a trouble due to its different hot shoe.
Steve
10 months ago |This CTPhotographyX guy is really pissed off about this
That’s too bad I guess…….
I have 4 Minolta/Sony flashes, and I do like them, but just don’t see this as that big of a deal.
I realy don’t care what the mount is, I just want better third-party support.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |What third-party support are you lacking for your Mino/Sony flashes? Is there something that ISO can do that an iISO flash system can’t?
poch
10 months ago |i wonder if nex7(b) will come with an hotshoe standard ^^… maybe nex 5r or nex-6
Pei
10 months ago |Please add an ISO shoe to all future NEX camera. It will make the system so much better.
McH
10 months ago |Nothing would be better because they will only change the physical properties. No common protocol an then there isn´t any flash trigger or so on. In my Studio there is everything available for iISO and I miss nothing. But if I have to change the iISO (stobist flash and trigger) mybe I change the whole system. Years ago .. Sony had an ISO socket and changed to the much better iISO and now back doesn´t make sense. If Sony is able to become a more stable partner for professionell clients .. the rest will come by itself.
Sorry for bad english..
Wally in austin
10 months ago |Pocket Wizzards or Photix. Simple concept, easy to understand, and finially someone at Sony gets it!
David Lam
10 months ago |It’s good for mounting PW/MIC/LCD monitor etc for studio/video
But, why go back to 1913 technolgy (the year that ISO hotshoe appeared) if there is no real advancement in flash technology ?
If Sony licensed Nikon’s CLS wireless protocol such that users can mix and match Nikon and New Sony flashes seamlessly – This will be a BIG threat to Canon
Radio triggers like Phottix Odin is great if the transmitter can be built into vertical grips of A77/A99
Standalone receivers with ilSO hotshoe can be produced for backward compatibility !
DragonEye
10 months ago |The 3rd option should be added
Do not care!
minolta man
10 months ago |Nobody here have Minolta and Sony flashes?
We invest in a system and now this?
My question is: why change it? What for?
ALL hot shoes could be more solid. My 12 year old Minolta Flash works fine, doesn’t shake on the sony. So does the Contax Flash – work fine – on the contax.
IF I could have TTL and fast sync and all that from the Contax Flash (much better made than that useless f “overheat” 58 from sony), I would sure appreciate the standard shoe. But it won’t work that way, now will it?
Maybe I am totally missing something here? No matter what the shoe, we can only use Sony/Minolta Flashes right? And NOW we will only be able to use NEW sony Flashes? After the desaster that is the f58?! now this?
Please tell me somehow this is great and I am wrong!
scott
10 months ago |Ok, so there is an adapter. How much will it cost when it is lost or on the next gen camera when it is not included (like the MS to CF adapter of the A100)? Current adapters run $7 to $15 USD. I doubt the plastic from the adapter would run less than that. Pocket wizards, cybersyncs, phottix stratos etc, they run thier fullest capability with a cheap adapter and are far less unstable than a 56 or 58 series flash on an adapter. If an adapter is such a great solution, why not include in ISO adapter with the camera? If it is for such things as a video monitor, well…..get a video camera. I hear there is a great nex model or two on the market.
I have never had a problem with contacts, never with a foot breaking on camera (one did break when on a light stand which blew over 3 times before the break).
Also, how compact can the adapter be and still provide a locking mechanism (God, I hope it is not a screw down type!)?
I am not ravenously mad about it, but I am annoyed. I am teetering on switching brands anyhow, and this may put me over the edge (not that Sony cares about any one person, nor should they).
Walter Knapp
10 months ago |Obviously we should go back to standard flashbulbs too! That’s what the ISO shoe was invented to run.
The damage that can be done to a flash when the ISO shoe drops it, as it will, since it’s standard includes no reliable lock, will be considerable, likely more than just the mount breaking.
The Minolta shoe was designed to break with a easily replaced part that’s inexpensive. Much better idea than a solid metal mount that rips apart a good deal of the camera or flash or both. Folks that complain that they have been using a broken flash for years are really dumb, get a new mount on it and have a complete system. And quit pounding nails with your camera system!
Pocket Wizards won’t work with the new ISO mount. They are not even interchangable between Nikon and Canon.
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Pocket Wizards won’t work with auto/hss. But Pixel Kings do work with iISO perfectly and a great price. Now the a99 will have NO native “smart” radio slave solution without adapting from iISO. Just absurd.
But hey, we’re talking about the company who left a Full Frame GAP in the lineup for nearly a year… The same company that doesn’t listen to anyone’s request for tethering. All hail Sony!
scott
10 months ago |My next question is are they going to return to the previous ISO hotshoe pinout that Minolta had before the went iISO? If so, this could mean some of teh accessories from before will have a return of value (FS1200, OC1000, etc).