DxOmark test: Sony RX1 Zeiss lens is “outstanding”
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DxOmark (Click here) published the RX1 Zeiss lens performance test. And they write: “ Its optical performance is outstanding, and particularly noteworthy for its consistent sharpness and homogenous imaging across the frame. With excellent image quality at maximum aperture becoming outstanding at f/2.8 and on, the Zeiss Sonnar T* 2/35 is likely to become a classic, against which all others are judged. Of course the lens can only be obtained with the purchase of the RX1, a camera that is not entirely without its own quirks and shortcomings. In spite of this, if you have the money to invest, then close to perfect imagery is assured.”
And for all these people that do think the RX1 is too expensive read this: “With a high overall DxOMark score of 33, the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* is a superb performer optically. That score puts it comfortably ahead of the $1,850 manual focus Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 1.4/35 (35mm f/1.4) on a Nikon D3X, which achieved a DxOMark score of 30.””
Now, I want that lens to be made for the future NEX FF system. I know it will be a tiny bit bigger and not have that nice leaf shutter. But I want it anyway 
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RX1 links roundup:
RX1 at Amazon, B&H, Adorama, J&R, eBay.
RX1 Gariz accessories:
1) They made a new half leather case in Black and Brown (Click here to see them on eBay).
2) The new lens cap (Click here to see them on eBay).
3) The new entry is the anti loose button(!) (Click here to see them on eBay). Don’t know if that will be really useful for you RX1 owners. Someone has it and call it how it works? Thanks!
4) And this is the really first time I see that. A special Leather skin hood! (Click here to see them on eBay).
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Spoon
4 months ago |Best corner sharpness at F2 from any 35mm they have tested (3x Canon, 2x Nikon, 1x Samyang, 1x Sigma, 1x Zeiss (mf), 1x Sony G).
Shield
4 months ago |They haven’t even tested the Sigma 35mm F/1.4 on the Canon 5D Mark III. It’s stunning even @ F/1.4; the Sony doesn’t even get wider than F/2.
Zohee35
4 months ago |They tested it on the mkII like most Canon lenses. I doubt the difference with the mkIII warranted retesting.
Hendrick
4 months ago |Totally expected. Shame the camera has trouble focusing in low light without the AF light aid.
That being said, with focus peaking and a bit of skill, the cam is killer.
Well done Sony/Zeiss.
Funny
4 months ago |Maybe that’s the limitation for OSPD AF, I m sure it will be improved as sensor tech advanced.
Miroslav
4 months ago |Are you trolling again?! Try going back home to your momma kid, you need serious help, I swear.
Hendrick
4 months ago |Who’s trolling?
Stan
4 months ago |@Miroslav. I think you need help. You’re the only one, who’s trolling here…
BdV
4 months ago |Funny’s a troll. So is his other name, Carl and Beachrider.
Michele
4 months ago |I just got mine a few days ago and I did some testing. It’s not so bad in the dark, even with the AF illuminator turned off. Of course if the subject is lacking contrast it hunts a couple of time before getting locked (and it doesn’t happen all the time) but as soon as the lens (or the sensor, to be correct) sees a little bit of contrast it locks on right away. Than you’re right: manual focus with focus peaking is really a plus to have. Overall I’m really happy about this “toy”.
Rolleiflex
4 months ago |If they have a version of this on a NEX, it’s not going to be “a tiny bit” bigger to get the same performance. Sadly, E-mount is never meant to have an FF sensor. I hope they come out with a different better mount for FF NEX but still compatible with the E-mount (yup another adapter).
Hendrick
4 months ago |I believe many at Sony mentioned that E mount was designed to have a FF sensor at one point but at the time of the NEX launch it was too expensive and impractical to have launched it.
That being said, you are right, an interchangeable mount 35mm f2 for NEX would not be small (or, as small as this combination of body and lens would be)
However, how does Leica achieve a stellar performance with their 35mm Summicrons? I know they cost, at least, $200 more than an RX1, but I wonder what sort of design related attributes they have to have such a performance in such a small-ish body.
Adam
4 months ago |I got that question too but from time to time again, the answer has usually been cause Leica lenses are MF only. Add the lens motor + OSS and it’ll probably be as big or bigger then the Noctilux (referring to the crons)
Hendrick
4 months ago |Now that does carry a lot of logic. I am not sure about adding OSS to any of the Zeiss lenses Sony and Zeiss have made (only the RX100 and the other cybershots may have OSS) but the AF mechanism indeed increases the size of any lens. I think the most obvious examples have been seen by Nikon with their AF lines. If you see the MF Nikkors from yesteryear, and compare them to their newer siblings, one can see an increase in body size (more so in the lenses where the screw dependent AF system is not needed anymore)
Agree, sir, you may be very well right.
Adam
4 months ago |Hmm, I hope Sony still keeps the idea of taking advantage of the huge array of legacy lenses usable with E Mount. Hopefully peaking stays on and maybe improvements??
It would be great to use legacy lenses on a full frame format.
Not sure about you, but after playing with manual focus lenses again, I dislike the current modern AF lenses, the focusing ring is never as good as the old manual lenses. Even Nikon AF-D lenses focus ring is not as good as their AI-S.
Of course I’m using NEX for non-action photographs so manual focusing + peaking is a must have feature in any upcoming NEX.
Adam
4 months ago |Oh yeah and I like how manual focus lens are generally smaller and lighter then their autofocus counterparts.
Hendrick
4 months ago |I like how legacy manual focus lenses work as well but the Zeiss 24mm for NEX and NEX’s fast reaction time on MF is good for me. That being said, it would be nice to have an infinity stop and a close focus stop (like what Olympus implemented) but I dont complain about the feel of the Zeiss for NEX lens. The kit lens, however, feels very cheap.
Rolleiflex
4 months ago |Most of those tiny RF lenses from Leica are the results of 1) more knowledgeable designers at this size constraint 2) film-oriented with steep light ray so the rear element can be close to the film plane 3) the use of more exotic glass 4) better QA (you can come up with a design but if it requires high precision, it’s not viable for mass production – just like the recent delay of the Leica 50 APO) and 5) as you mentioned above (AF, OS, and all those electronic stuff). Incidentally, Leica throat size is small as well; however, with sheer high level of expertise and the use of exotic glass, they can overcome the limitation. A friend of mine used to work at Leica said that the Nocti 50/0.95 is pretty much the limit of the mount. Leica pulled all sorts of tricks to accomplish it.
Adam
4 months ago |Yup, I have the Zeiss 24 too (love the lens) and it’s manual focus ring feels better then my previous Nikon 35mm 1.4 G lens but still its focus ring is nowhere as good as manual focus lens only. I understand this design constraint has something to do with the AF overwrite feature found in expensive AF lenses.
The only thing that I wish Sony would do is to make me able to manually turn on the peaking magnification when using E mount lenses, similar like when a non-E mount lens is mounted, the peaking feature is there but you need to manually turn on the magnification (I located the button to the bottom soft key). I hate it how it auto magnifies and the only way to prevent that is to turn off peaking magnification from the menu rather then manually toggling it.
Rolleiflex, interesting points. I never knew that using more exotic glass will allow smaller lenses (besides fewer elements)
Hendrick
4 months ago |…”very well be right”
John Maverick
4 months ago |The E-mount physically accomodates fullframe lenses both RF and SLR, but it won’t accomodate the newer RX1 or Fuji type optical designs.
Leica achieves success by designing the sensor around the lenses. No AA filter, super thin IR filter (removed in M8). offset and non-spherical microlenses and shallow pixel wells etc.
Frank
4 months ago |eh? The VG-900 is a full frame E-mount.
Rooru S.
4 months ago |“E-mount is never meant to have an FF sensor.”
But we just got the “prototype” already to see if FF sensor fits E-mount. It’s called NEX-VG900, and I’m sure Sony can make lenses for that sensor with the E-mount. And we just got a patent with some details about a possible FF 35mm f/1.8 for E-mount (they’re going to make it f/2 probably) so…yes, E-mount was meant to have a FF sensor. Even if you come again and say something like “but the registration distance it’s too small for a FF lens” yes, it’s small and that makes E-mount even better! You can mount whatever FF lens you want on it and Sony can add a few mm to the lens barrel to make it effective with the corners and even use those mm to add electronics or optics. E-mount is good enough as it is.
John Maverick
4 months ago |Unfortunately the performance of rangefinder lenses such as Leicas and Zeiss ZM is terrible with the current VG900.
Rolleiflex
4 months ago |Quite the lack of understanding the problem. You can pretty much slap a full frame sensor behind any mount. However, the throat size and registration distance would dictate how easy it would be to design a small lens with good optical performance. With the mirrorless concept, theoretically you can bring the rear element as close to the sensor as possible for UWA and WA design. This would result in a smaller lens. However, to avoid the steep angle incidental rays, the rear element has to be big (just like this Sonnar) to ensure mostly straight light ray. So if the throat size is bigger than the sensor, you can achieve this. However, big throat size means bigger (in diameter) and heavier lens. So like with any problem, there is a sweet spot for this that would require building different prototypes. In short, no, the current throat size is not ideal to have small size and good performance. One can always design a longer lens to get a decent performance, but that would negate the short registration distance advantage. They can use more exotic glass to get the result, but I don’t think the majority here would like the price.
Beachrider
4 months ago |Nah, I’ll pass…. because it’s just a FF gimmick by Sony, maker of walkmans.
Sky_walker
4 months ago |what the heck are you doing here? Go troll your canikon rumors.
Beachrider
4 months ago |You were once a dslr fanboy, dont get all uppity on me, kid,
Beachrider
4 months ago |Apparently, there are two beachriders.
Funny
4 months ago |There is always some mentally retarded person who like to impersonate other commenters in SAR. If you pay attention to last couple of posts in these couple days, you will find out.
Stan
4 months ago |That jackass has impersonated nearly everyone on these boards. Its pretty easy to spot him/her based on the comments posted. Its usually something along the lines of “Sony loosing money since 2008.” as well as “Drop all your gear and run from Sony”.
Stan
4 months ago |Didn;t you just say” Sony lsoing moneuy since 2008.”? I think you;re the one playing games.
Beachrider
4 months ago |I love replying to myself. Even though Iam the only one posting as such.
Sky_walker
4 months ago |You can’t put this lens optical formula onto NEX, even if you’d use different body with E-bayonet. And if you change optical formula – you got a completely different lens. Not just “tiny bit bigger” as you suggest.
John Maverick
4 months ago |SONY bosses have talked about widening it to be able to use RX1 type optical design and corrective elements while maintaining compatability. It’s key point that Admin should try to clarify with sources.
Rolleiflex
4 months ago |That would be an extremely good news. I hope whatever you have heard is true.
John Maverick
4 months ago |I only have public information, nothing is certain or finalized, and they’re only hints. Here’s one example.
MW: The VG900 demonstrated that the E-mount lens mount can support a full frame sensor. [...] The benefits of making a smaller camera with a full frame sensor and interchangeable lenses are clear. The E-mount that could do that would be a little different than the E-mount that we know today. [...] Much of the lens geometry you see in the RX1 is what it would take to realize that design.
Another reason to pursue this is that more throat space would make FF E-Mount IBIS possible. Unfortunately it might also mean The disadvantage is that they’re abandoning hope for good RF lens performance which can only be addressed at the sensor.
Hendrick
4 months ago |I have just noticed this sentence, which Admin should have flagged maybe to quiet down the people that say the RX1 is too expensive for what it is. Well:
“With a high overall DxOMark score of 33, the Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* is a superb performer optically. That score puts it comfortably ahead of the $1,850 manual focus Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 1.4/35 (35mm f/1.4) on a Nikon D3X, which achieved a DxOMark score of 30.”
This means that, at least in the US, the price of the RX1 is comfortably around the $1k mark for “body only” with a performance that outperforms a combo twice its price.
It is not expensive for what it is. Especially since the Combo mentioned above is a manual focus only combo.
admin
4 months ago |Right Hendrick! Ill will include this inside the article!
Cliff
4 months ago |Any info yet on Sony NAB 2013?
Nik
4 months ago |This is why some people are a little irritated by SAR sometimes. Here you’re making a subjective value judgement based solely on one aspect of the camera which is image quality. It might make the camera worth more “for you” but that doesn’t mean people who value AF, a large body, interchangeable lenses, weather sealing, or any other feature the RX1 does not have aren’t right to think the camera isn’t worth it or is overpriced.
I don’t mind a little subjectivity in my camera news (love reading Steve’s reviews, for example) but I see the point of people who say this stuff doesn’t have any place in a news/rumours site.
cocoon
4 months ago |+1!!!
It seems that SAR is only a fanchild site -_- others rumor sites are more objective to their brands and if there is a problem they admit it
W my a99!
admin
4 months ago |Nik, than you really don’t know me. I am the first publishing issues and problems with Sony cameras. Long time readers know that well. Just look at whom posted the A77 issues as first. It was SAR. So please try to be rational and objective and use clear arguments. Isn’t that what you should do in first place before to critize others?
bob
4 months ago |Are you hiding a tell-tale heart?
Rooru S.
4 months ago |Maybe he is new here and hasn’t been following all the announcements and rumors. I do remember those times when you published here the lag problems with the a77 and many other issues with Sony cameras.
dwera
4 months ago |Well if it had an interchangeable lens, was a “game changer” for the price it offered, but putting in mind that you will not take away the 35 mm from the body ever (go to the Olympics with this!! better David Burnett went with the optical bench, at least got something!) is too much, way too much expensive!
….waiting for the nex FF coming in 2000never
Per K
4 months ago |The RX1 is too expensive only because I cannot afford it…..
steveen
4 months ago |That’s it. I saw enough. I’ve heard enough. I’ve been resisting for months but I just can’t anymore. I’m getting this.
nagi
4 months ago |It’s a real shame the RX1 costs around $4500 where I live. D:
daenur
4 months ago |it’s a shame they’ve done this and now plan for a 35mm for FF NEX, while a 35mm Zeiss A-Mount lens is long overdue
Sky_walker
4 months ago |Definitely. This so-called Sony’s G 35 f/1.4 got an optical design made back in 1987 which is far behind competition in these days. Eh… when they’ll learn…
tesilab
4 months ago |“Now, I want that lens to be made for the future NEX FF system. I know it will be a tiny bit bigger and not have that nice leaf shutter. But I want it anyway
”
Andrea, you cannot have this lens even a lot bigger on an FF NEX for what should be obvious reasons.
It sits a couple of millimeters away from the sensor. The sensor is supposedly “tweaked” for this particular lens.
Of course nothing will stop Zeiss from designing some other very nice lens for Sony.
As for me, even after acquiring a NEX FF, if I shoot 35mm, I will simply use an RX1. The whole camera will be smaller (and possibly less expensive) than an equivalent lens for any NEX FF.
John Maverick
4 months ago |The lens you want is the Zeiss ZM 35/2 is a rangefinder lens that’s not much bigger. Slightly longer but smaller diameter. Like the RX1 lens it’s also sharper than the Distagons.
UK
4 months ago |I never said the RX1 was too expensive.
I only stated that it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE IN GERMANY !!!
Beachrider
4 months ago |Oh come on man, be honest. That camera is a ripp off no matter where its sold. Any one who buys that thing over a 7d or d7000 is a total retard.
Marlon Richardson
4 months ago |Both of those camera’s you mentioned are a waste of money IMO. I would much rather have a Sony Rx1 for $2800 than a 7d or D700 with a top tier 35 prime. If I’m going to spend the same amount of money either way might as well get something I’ll love.
Hendrick
4 months ago |Boom my man…nuff said.
Beachrider
4 months ago |Hendrick- total retard# 2
gerda
4 months ago |yeah and sure you can shot sports with your crap rx1
HAHAHHA and sure we will see a lot of wordpressphotographers with rx1.. ahem .. playstations
Marlon Richardson
4 months ago |Why would I use such a compact camera to shoot sports? Hell I wouldn’t attempt to shoot sports with the NEX’s, EM-5, Leica’s, or Fuji camera’s. They are simply not designed for such things. Obviously, these camera’s where not designed for sports shooters as you can get far better camera’s for that sort of thing. I like the Rx1 because it is just about all I want in my style of photography. I am very happy with it.
When I’m not working this is my bag:
- Sony Rx1
- Leica M6 + 50/2 Summicron + Flash
- Fuji GF670
When I’m working in the studio
- Contax 645 + Phase One P21+
- Sony A99
- Sony Rx1
When I’m working in the field
- Sony A99
- Sony Rx1
Notice I can take the Rx1 with me everywhere. For my needs it’s versatile enough to always be valuable. Maybe a Nikon D4 might suit you best for your sports photography.
Beachrider
4 months ago |Total retard # 1
bart
4 months ago |Marylon, you’re trying too hard to keep your desk job at Sony. You should apply to Samsung, at least they’re not losing money like Sony is.
HDKU
4 months ago |I bought a D800 with the Sigma 35mm F1.4 which delivers excellent results and would score higher than the RX1 for approximately the same price as the RX1.Other than size the D800 easily outperforms the RX1 in every single way.
Obviously designing a camera for use with one lens and vice-versa is a considerably easier task than designing a stand alone design for use on multiple formats , pixel densities processing engines etc.I am not in any way suggesting that the RX1 does not deliver stunning results for it certainly does . My problem is how little you get for your money had the RX1 had a built in EVF which would not add hugely to the size and fast AF etc I would certainly consider it, as is it is an expensive niche product with few practical advantages over many other set ups.
Beachrider
4 months ago |I don’t know who this ‘beachrider’ is. I have been posting here for many months with that name, though..
bart
4 months ago |aybe the beachrider is…..you. Maybe you need more serious meds, that way you dont keep posting and replying to yourself and talking to your “invisible” friend.
Beachrider
4 months ago |It looks like anyone can use any name on this forum. That is a deal breaker for me. Good luck to SAR with that strategy.
T800
4 months ago |You’d better start using C**ckrider then.
bart
4 months ago |He thinks he owns names, like it’s copyrighted and patent infringement or something. Some ppl are as vain as they come. Nest thing they will tell admin that they own the name admin.
Rob
4 months ago |Does the camera have an AA filter? Removing or minimizing it would be a way to squeeze out all of the goodness of that lens….
Sky_walker
4 months ago |And make it useless for a photography in a city, where you have loads of patterns causing insane moire? I think it’s really impressive to come out with such a horrible idea.
Kudos to You!
Rob
4 months ago |How mahy high end cameras are not using AA filters? C’mon, aren’t you keeping up? Kudos for you for being so far behind that you’re irrelevant.
Funny
4 months ago |If I m not mistaken, to name a few, d600, d800, and a99 all have AA filter. D800E has none.
HDKU
4 months ago |The D800E does have an AA filter
Shield
4 months ago |So the main picture for this article is comparing the now FIVE year old Canon Mark II (that can be had for about $1400) from 2008 with the latest $2800 FF camera that doesn’t have a built-in viewfinder?
Sky_walker
4 months ago |But at the same time latest 2500$ Canon doesn’t even have a build-in lens?!
You see – like Canon have interchangeable lenses – Sony got interchangeable viewfinders.
Marlon Richardson
4 months ago |If DXO would have used the 5d3 the tested lenses would have performed a bit less because the 5d3′s sensor is more demanding than the the 5d2. The sharpness, CA, and Distortion scores would have all been worse and negated any gains attributed to an improved ISO performance.
Tu
4 months ago |My God Marlon Richardson what are you saying??? A better camera would have performed a bit less! Is this Fawlty Towers
Marlon
4 months ago |I’m saying that the 5d3 out resolves the lenses they tested on the 5d2. A fullframe in the D4 range with an equivalent tier lens would fair better than the Rx1′s 35/2.
Zohee35
4 months ago |Not really, see how they establish their measurements and scores.
Steve
4 months ago |I would like to see that test using a Nikon D600 with the new sigma 35/f1.4
hat would be a better match-up of the sensor that a old Canon 5dII
And it would be a better price point match with the Nikon about $100 more
Stan
4 months ago |And it would be a ridiculous mismatch in Size, just like that Canon. But at least that’s a pancake-ish lens.
Funny
4 months ago |Don’t be such a dumb fanboy…it’s disgusting.
Cyrus
4 months ago |And with this Outstanding Lens…
Sony succeeded to get lower Score for the RX1 than the D600 with similar sensor ^_^
anon
4 months ago |How much that similar combination costs? Weight?
Funny
4 months ago |Score from where?
cyrus
4 months ago |Same entity… DxO
http://www.cameraegg.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/sony-rx1-dxomark.png
GH
3 weeks ago |The difference between the D600 scores and RX1 scores are negligible, especially since Nikon generally uses a less dense CFA, improving high ISO at the cost of color density. There’s nothing to see there.
LR
4 months ago |The website even rank it as the 3rd best lens of the market, quite Amazing:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Ratings
Twaddler Belafonte
4 months ago |DXO: SHUT UP! The price will never fall if you keep harping on about how great it is. Bastardos.
omg fwiw idk brb
4 months ago |This lens looks great. It certainly looks like the sony-zeiss marriage is near the state of the art for 35mm IQ.
However, DXO’s lens ratings seem to suffer from an inexplicable margin of error positively correlated with the quality of the sensor.
I’m no expert, but it seems peculiar that the D3X (with a sensor rating of 88) coupled with a Nikkor 85 1.8G results in a score of 35 for the Nikkor (DXO’s highest rated lens ever) when the same Nikkor mated to a D3s (with a sensor rating of 82) achieves a score of 30. Both Nikkor scores were garnered at the lens’ maximum aperture. It’s not clear whether DXO used different copies.
This is not to belittle the performance of the Nikkor 85 or the Zeiss 35. I’m just curious about what DXO’s lens ratings really tell us.
Others up thread have alluded to this irregularity. Though it seems some believe DXO’s methodology handicaps lenses mated to higher resolving sensors. Like I said, I’m not an expert, so I don’t know which way DXO’s methodology cuts, but I think Roger Cicala of Lens Rentals has a good contribution on this question if anyone else is interested.
Simon T
4 months ago |AF is very slow for this price it’s a thanks but no thanks
Hendrick
4 months ago |For you and others like you. But for others like me, I say:
“Thank you Sony for having advanced the field of photographic gear by offering something that many thought it couldn’t exist.”
It is a lot of money in general, true, but not for what it actually is and, now we know for sure, for what it delivers.
anon
4 months ago |Leica cameras doesn’t even have an AF but cost more.
BdV
4 months ago |It’s called ” ripping dummies off”
Wayne Summers
4 months ago |I never could understand the bitching that goes on about this camera. Its not made for everyone and nothing is. If its not a toy its a waste of money. I think if you like and can afford it and it works for you then get it because its a better camera than most of the so called photographers on this site.
Funny
4 months ago |Admin, told you to ban that retard’s IP. Look what he has done to the forum. I am not sure if that will drive user away, but for me, I am leaving. I can also get Sony rumors some where else, may be not as accurate but no big deal.
I dun really care what ppl say in the forum, but using others ppl screen name and mess around is just sick. And I get tired to think more to figure out who is the real user. Keep it that way and you will see ppl just come here, read, and just go, no one will bother to leave anymore comment in your site.
Maybe change it to member/register basis, that way you can at less let ppl reserve their screen name.
SAR “was” a great site. Good luck!
stan
4 months ago |Don’t threaten admin with your waste of time whines. Admin has better things to do now that he has a new baby than to deal with your bitching. Let’s see, if we were admin what would we do? Take care of baby or deal with your whining and bitching? Baby, or your whinign and bitching? Hmm, that’s a hard choice. What do you think , you, boy?
Fred Smith
4 months ago |Most of the readership here and most sites don’t leave a comment anwyays….so what’s the problem? Are you angry cause you dont get your way? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Aiden
4 months ago |In all honesty. I agree….
I have been frequenting this site since the launch of the a580.
I was witness to andrea’s prediction of the a77 months in advance.
It has been a long time since i have opened a “comments” tab here, and what a dissapointment it was to see such trash, poorly disguised in the form of “comments”
I do firmly believe users should keep thier usernames. To avoid a good discussion, as this thread started out as, turning into a 5th grade bitch fest.
I would like to see it back the way it was. Passionate discussion regarding the topic on hand.
Alphart
4 months ago |If users keep one name, thre would be like 6 people commenting here, because there is probably only six ppl making all the comments you see here , including you.