Is the Sony-Nikon sensor partnership dead?
Unlike the first dpreview statement it seems that Nikon didn’t use the NEX sensor for the new new D3100
Read what Nikon-guru Thom Hogan wrote yesterday:
“One curious aspect of the D3100 is the sensor. “Nikon developed” appears in the marketing materials, and the sensor is indeed not the same one as in the Sony NEX5 (as originally speculated) in several key ways, one of which is physical size, the other pixel count. The Nikon 14mp sensor has slightly more pixel count in a slightly smaller area than the Sony. Indeed, the area is no longer what I’d call DX. The D5000
Update: I’ve now heard even more details about the D3100 sensor and from a few sources closer to Nikon Japan. It does indeed appear that Nikon has moved to producing their own sensors. They may be licensing or cooperating on some of the underlying technologies, but it appears that Nikon has decided that Nikon DSLRs will in the future have Nikon-controlled and Nikon-exclusive sensors. That they haven’t chosen to make a bigger deal of this is strange. And some parts of Nikon appear not to have gotten the memo on this, as I’ve seen quotes from Nikon personnel in some subsidiaries that say “Sony sensor.”
Loading ...
Antonio Rojilla
3 years ago |How is making less money and having less competitive products due to lower volume good for Sony?
If anything, Nikon showed the world that they don’t need Sony to make outstanding sensors (D3/D700 and D3S) and even with those made by Sony Nikon always got better results from…
And I think the options given in the poll are misleading since Sony has been already competing against Nikon in full force. Or don’t you remember how Sony would eat Nikon with the so cheap A900? That Sony has been unable to grab any significant market share from Nikon may show that Sony’s strategy has been all wrong, but to say that they have been competing is just false. But a good way for fanboys to feel better though.
ET
3 years ago |Antonio, you are here, you are on DPR, you are everywhere whining about Sony. What’s your obsession, anti-Sony fanboy? Sony’s semiconductor devision is bigger than all of Nikon combined. Even if the sensor is designed by Nikon, it’s still probably build by Sony — since Nikon has no expertise/resources/fabrication facilities to build sensors. Besides, the D3100 sensor looks to be stripped down version of Nex (slower fps and ISO). Probably Nikon couldn’t afford Sony’s 14 MP sensor for a cheap entry-level model, so they came up with this slightly smaller stripped down sensor — which is still probably made by Sony.
By the way, Nikon got it’s ass handed to them in p&s cameras even by Samsung (forget Sony, Canon, Panasonic). With Nex and upcoming translucent cameras, Nikon will be the first to suffer seriously. They don’t even have any video expertise (unlike Canon, Panasonic, and Sony).
Antonio Rojilla
3 years ago |Then you are everywhere I go. Should I worry?
Anyway, seeing how you care about what I say, you should know that I only participate in two photography related forums, dpreview.com and mirrorlessforum.com. I saw this poll in the latter and came here to vote and give my opinion on the matter, that’s all.
And how is giving an opinion bashing Sony? If anything, all I said are facts: Sony Semiconductors will lose money if they lose a customer (that’s easy to understand, right?), their products will be less competitive because of way lower volume (please do the maths), Nikon always got better results from allegedly same sensors (dozens of reviews actually prove this) and they made an outstanding sensor, one of the best ever, on their own. Those are facts. That you don’t like them is another story.
And now… fanboy? Unlike you I don’t give a —- about stickers in the products I buy and use. I get whatever meets my needs and I can afford at any given moment (right know I have and use a Nikon DSLR, a Panasonic m4/3, and two Samsung and Knoica-Minolta compacts). And you know… I don’t care about Nikon at all even when if use some of their products. I’m not an investor and they can go bankrupt tomorrow for all I care. I know there will always be a company manufacturing products. Canon, Sony, Panasonic… Whichever.
Them you show who is the fanboy by starting to talk about something totally unrelated like P&S, translucent cameras and video trying to defend your beloved brand. What does all have to see with the poll here and what I said? Oh, and as I said, Sony can take the whole market for all I care. And I myself think that at some point they will. They will provably start by killing m4/3 (you should have know that I said exactly that in the mirrorlessforum.com days ago, that m4/3 was in real danger because of the new NEX cameras).
And BTW, I love the NEX 5 (except for the user interface) and I plan to buy one (it also happens that I love single focal length lenses and that 24mm is my favourite focal length). But buying one won’t make me be a Sony fanboy.
I just tried to comment on the poll and all I got was someone calling me a fanboy instead of following the conversation and adding useful content. Thanks.
Jeff Tucker
3 years ago |I think in the long run Sony will gain market share in the low to medium priced DX format type camera’s, but it’s my belief that Nikon will dominate the Higher End Pro DSLR market or Range. This is just my opinion, but where it really counts is that the money to be made isn’t in the Higher end lower volume market, it’s in the low to mid priced Camera’s where Sony needs to be. Sony has stated that they will no longer produce FX full frame sensors, I think this may be because Nikon is developing their own FX sensors now, and due to the lower number of FX bodies they sell, it may not be worth Sony’s effort in this higher end market that Nikon and Canon dominates. Just my 2 cents…..
Sky_walker
3 years ago |Well, video-wise Nikon have already lost – to Canon. Currently if someone wants to get DSLR for indie video recording, he’ll most likely go for Canon. Sure, Nikon has made first DSLR with video, few days ago it made first DSRL with AF during video, but is miles behind Canon.
How Sony video DSLR will go – we’re yet to see. But I don’t have high hopes in this regard unless Sony goes for firmware update and allows 30p & 24p recording (yes, the interlaced vid can be converted, but it doesn’t work well for people who want to get camera for indie movies). But well, we’ll see. All in all it’s just software issue, all the rest will be superb to competition.
Rinneh
3 years ago |The video does not need to be converted, it is already in 1080p30 but it uses a wrapper because it is not an official standard, many camera manufacturers use this method.
But for some reason with sony they suddenly forget that it seems.
lander240
3 years ago |Maybe the poll should look like this:
If the news is true. Do you think that is good news for Sony?
1) Yes, now Nikon’s (as a competitor) average cost of making a camera will be higher in short-run until they can achieve the economies of scale comparable to that of SONY in sense of sensor making. So start praying to your GOD to slow them down now.
2) Yes, now Sony can leave the best to themselves, without being caught.
3) Yes, SONY have already TOO MUCH orders to deal with. Now they can enjoy their afternoon tea.
————————-
I am sorry but to affraid that “Nikon dropping SONY” (if true) is no good to SONY. This will probably do harm to quite a part of SONY Semiconductor revenue which comes from selling sensors to the other fabless company.
I think we should focus on the fact that Nikon is an important customer for “SONY Semiconductor” rather that a competitor to “SONY Image”. For the moment, Nikon’s DSLR sticked with SONY’s sensor (if really) still sold far more than SONY’s own DSLR.
LEdgars
3 years ago |When D3 was announced, there was similar about death of partnership. After it was clear, that sensor was engineered in close collaboration with Sony.
I agree that Nikon before did better cameras from the same sensors. But it was in past because of Sony (Minolta) weak expertise in DSLR area. Now Sony could do the same and better.
Antonio, NEX take 10-15% of marketshare form all DSLR busines in Japan in two month. Cameras like A900 buying people manly with several Sony lenses in the bag. Sony could compete against CaNikon only in DSLR newcomers area, therefore Sony marketshare not growing so fast. Again NEX is obviously right weapon to increase marketshare, but therefore A7xx is still absent. In general to me is absolutely unimportant Sony marketshare if they introduce new lenses and excellent cameras. Hoverer, I suppose Sony couldn’t introduce advanced cameras if they didn’t have enough entry level users.
dk
3 years ago |Bad bad and bad! Having lost sale to Nikon means that Sony’s sensors will cost more, well, significantly more IMO. Hope LEgdars is right that this is just one off from Nikon. Even though the NEX is changing it, Sony’s market share (plus Pentax for that matters) is just not there yet.
One speculation from me thou, Sony can be harvesting the defected NEX sensors (defects on the borders) and sells to Nikon. Surely this has never happened in DSLR world before but pc processor manufacturers (AMD/ATI, Intel, Nvidia) have been doing this for ages.
alfredo
3 years ago |Announcing their video dslr with AF first doesn’t mean they made it first. Sony will announce their new products in 3 days. For all we now they’ve been in products for many months now. And we still don’t know whether the new Nikons or the new Sony’s will be on the market first.
alfredo
3 years ago |* …been in “production”…
luke
3 years ago |Huum, I don’t think so
Even in comparing between D5000 and A550, those are announced different size of sensors, but D5000 had been known as equipped with a SONY sensor.
(D5000 has 23.6×15.8 mm sensor, A550 has 23.4×15.6mm sensor)
So the difference of sensor size is not proof.
There is a rumor that D3100 uses a patent JP2001-281530 belongs to SONY(It was patented by Minolta at the time) as new AF-F(Continuous AF method).
I guess it might be mutually licensed to trade for adopting SONY devices.
Sky_walker
3 years ago |Yep, that’s what I’m thinking; Nikon is still very closely cooperating with Sony.
Even if we assume that sensor for D3100 was made from scratch by Nikon (which is VERY very doubtful – they even don’t have any patents in this regard, not saying about technological, know-how resources, and the experience for modern sensor construction) – still Nikon would use Sony to manufacture them.
Still though, most possible version, aside from that D3100 actually do have Sony sensor only with few very minor modifications, is that the D3100 sensor is based on technology and patents provided by Sony, as well as it’s manufactured by Sony.
Either way: it means that each DSLR sold by Nikon means more money for Sony Corp.
Joel
3 years ago |Well, it gives me hope since I want to see the a33 and/or a55 have 720p 60 fps mode… even though the D3100 won’t, the Sony cams still might. It’s the one missing piece in the puzzle for me to sell my D80 and other Nikon gear and go Sony.
Q
3 years ago |Everyone has to remember that a break up between Sony and Nikon is a double edged sword for Nikon as they would be taking a largest risk compared with Sony. The amount of sensors that Sony distributes to the entire camera industry globally is staggering and Nikon is just one of those companies.
Sony will probably take a loss, but one that they can recover from by selling more cameras like the NEX and releasing new class leading bodies like the A33/A55.
Nikon on the other hand, would be gambling quite a lot, they are a smaller company – they don’t have the buffer and financial security like Sony do, they teeter on the edge where one decision will mean success of failure.
(Obviously Sony can make mistakes and absorb it, look at the A230 bodies..)
At the end of the day, Sony are the sleeping giants of the industry and are only starting to wake up, they would have predicted a time when Nikon would stop relying on them for sensors, and the real camera battle would begin.
Bare
3 years ago |Nikon D3100 sensor is produced by Renesas.
Froo
3 years ago |Bare: Source for that, except net speculation?
Dulaney Ward
3 years ago |are you certain, Bare?
sonyalpharumors | Home
3 years ago |[...] best sources gave us an answer about the Nikon-Sony partnership speculations. As you may remember Thom Hogan “speculated” that Nikon is or will starting to produce their own sensors. Apparently this is NOT going to [...]
pthomaslambert
3 years ago |Bare,
Renesas makes make controller and display chips for Nikon, but they indicated that they do not have the means or resources to make Image capture Sensors nor do they want to currently venture into that area.
The LCD Display on a lot of the Nikon DSLR cameras are supplied by them.
justme
9 months ago |So, the A98 will be the FF 36MP or more to get?