Luminous Landscape first impressions about the A65 (with A900 comparison!).

Whenever Luminous Landscapes posts a review (or preview in this case) I am very glad to link to it because I think they make a very good job by giving a real photographer point of view about the new cameras. Click here to read their latest A65 first impression article.
LL likes the new EVF: “(It) is really a game changer, and compared to a small and dim DSLR finder is likely to be preferred. Compared to an optical viewfinder like the one on the A900 it may be another story though. The A900′s vewfinder and prism remain about as good as it gets.” but they don’t recommend to buy the A65 with the kit lens: “The high image quality that the A65 is capable of simply won’t be able to shine through if one is limited to this lens.”
LL tested the A65 with a pre-production firmware V1.02. The good news is that “Certainly ISOs from 100 through and including 1600 are essentially noise free in any sized print.”. Than they compared the A65 with the A900: “At ISO 100 the A65 shows somewhat more noise at 100% on-screen than the A900, which is essentially noise free. The A65′s noise is absolutely invisible in three quarter to mid-tones, and completely invisible in normal sized prints in any part of the tonal range, but in the quarter tones on screen there definitely is some luminance noise visible.”
About the video quality: “I have noted that so-called jello-cam (rolling shutter) seems to be almost non-existent on both cameras. I will be meeting with Sony factory engineers shortly and look forward to an opportunity to find out what is going on with this new sensor.”
There is a lot more info to read on LL so please take time to read the full article (Click here).
Thanks again LL for your nice work!!!
And here are the preorder search links. As usual click on the store name to see if they do offer a preorder option and to check the price:
A65 at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
A77 (the more expensive big brother) at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
And here are the new NEX cameras and lenses:
Sony NEX-7 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
Sony NEX-5n Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
Sony 50mm f/1.8 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
Sony 55-210mm Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
P.S.: The Sony A900 links at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay

Sky_walker
9 months ago |Well, the noise is a blessing CMOS sensors gave us (A900 has CCD sensor), and part of reasons why I threat them as ‘necessary evil’. For low-ISO shooting there’s nothing better than full frame CCD, but well…
Geir E
9 months ago |The a900 has a CMOS sensor, the a100, a2x0, a3x0 has CCD sensors.
The Lotus Eater
9 months ago |“A900 has CCD sensor” – NO.
Raghav
9 months ago |Yeah Right… My A100 has a CCD & its noisy as hell. I wanted to upgrade to a noise free camera, but it appears that the A65 isn’t really an improvement over the A55 in that department. Leaning towards the NEX5N… But the adapter + the EVF gets too expensive… Sheesh…
Carl
9 months ago |I’d love it if my A900 did have a CCD, but no, it’s good old complementary metal oxide.
Michael
9 months ago |But to clarify, with “kit lens” they mean the 18-55 SAM, not the new 16-50 SSM.
Kalpurush :)
9 months ago |Yes, LL mean the 18-55 SAM which comes with a65 as a combo
lifeispixels
9 months ago |Thanks for clarification! My heart almost stopped when I thought they referred to 16-50 because I ordered A77 with kit lens! O_o
Cristian
9 months ago |+ 1
www.MilosJanata.com
9 months ago |haha that would be cruel
Nick T
9 months ago |A900 and A850 has CMOS sensors.
David
9 months ago |He said very well. People who are still concerned about noise, take note:
‘ Take a look at the frame above. It was taken at ISO 12,800. Not bad at this size, huh? In fact damn good. That’s because the image, when reproduced on a typical monitor at 100%, would be 83 inches across on screen. That’s seven feet wide!
At what distance do you view a seven foot wide image? Certainly not with your nose 10 inches from the screen. One rule of thumb is that the minimum viewing distance for a print is the same as its diagonal. So, something like 10 feet away for a seven foot wide print.
Now scroll up to the ISO 12,800 image in the test sequence above and walk back about 10 feet from your screen. Not so bad, isn’t it.
Therein lies the fallacy of pixel peeping. Looking at an image from a high resolution camera on-screen at 100% is like walking up to your large screen TV and looking at the picture at the closest distance that your eyes can focus. What do you see? RGB dots, right? Now go back to your favourite arm chair and what do you see? The Sunday afternoon football game.
I rest my case.
Back in the days of 3 Megapixel and 6 Megapixel cameras looking at an image at 100% on screen bore a relationship to what we might see on an 8X10″ or a 11X17″ print. Today, a 24 Megapixel file can make an excellent 24X36″ print. How many prints that big do you ever make? Indeed, how many worthwhile photographs do you ever take at anything over ISO 1600?
But still, we continue to insist on looking at images at 100% on-screen. It does tell us things about the image quality, but just not things that are terribly relevant to most people’s real-world needs.’
Albin
9 months ago |amen to that
acolyte
9 months ago |As much as I agree, ‘experts’ will not care, as they need something ‘measurable’ to sound ‘critical’.
And my thoughts exactly about David’s mention about how often do you do large prints and how many worthwhile photographs you take for that purpose.
Oh well
They got bored of the reality perhaps and live in pixel world ^^
Paul Hedderly
9 months ago |David you are totally right.
However, if you want to make crops then things change a bit and the smaller the crop – the more the noise will affect you. “Digital zoom” is always going to be a trafeoff of course, but for some the pixel level noise will be important.
And.. ideally we really do want zero noise…
(and yes I did mean this as a reply to David’s post…)
David
9 months ago |Very true, but even taking half the image is still 12mp
Hell, even if you take 25% of the image it’s still 6mp! People used 6mp images for a long time! I have an a850 and the amount of detail you can pull out of 24mp is just ridiculous.
And with good PP, it’s amazing what you can squeeze out of even little jpegs. Some tactical noise reduction, sharpen it carefully to get detail without artifacts.. it’s quite amazing.
bobby
9 months ago |i still use 6mp! lol my 7D, so going to the a77 will be all positive upgrade for me
Albin
9 months ago |.
Carl
9 months ago |Certainly being able to crop for compositional reasons is important (say you want to shoot in 1:1 or 2.39:1, or remove something artistically unappealing from your shot), but “digital zoom” is no substitute for owning a longer lens. If someone is regularly deeply cropping their images, they’re doing their camera a disservice.
chlamchowder
9 months ago |But what if you happen to have a shorter lens attached when an opportunity comes up? By the time you pull out your telephoto and complete the lens swap, that opportunity could have passed. And what about those of us who cannot afford (or don’t want to carry) a 400mm or 600mm telephoto but still want to take pictures of things from far away?
Digital zoom is no substitute for a longer lens, but isn’t the ability to digitally zoom more while still maintaining decent IQ a good thing?
Carl
9 months ago |Sure, there are times when I’ve found myself doing likewise, but it’s a very compromised solution.
It’s not like all telephotos cost and weigh the same as the Minolta/Sony 300/2.8, 400/4.5, 600/4. There are both small and relatively cheap options out there.
Nawaf
9 months ago |How about if we compare it to a D7000? I’m guessing it won’t fair well. The D7000 and NEX-5N are very close, so maybe we can compare it to a 7D in regards to DR and noise.
David
9 months ago |I think it will fair better than a D7000. Especially if you resize the images to be equal for comparison (either upscale the d7k or downsize the a65).
There might be more noise at pixel level, but as the LL guy said, a 100% image would be 6.5 feet wide! You would never sit and look at that image from 10 inches away in reality. I’ll happily accept the extra detail of a 24mp image.
Raghav
9 months ago |You are exactly right. The D7000 was the APSC High ISO benchmark before the 5N came out. The 5N actually obliterates the D7000 now.
I really wanted the A65/77 to atleast match the D7000 level. But alas… I am afraid that will not happen. Hope to be proved wrong though…
Raghav
9 months ago |Did anybody notice the sudden jump in noise from ISO 1600 to 3200??? 1600 is almost noise free. Then in ISO 3200 so much noise that the texture on the biceps is totally invisible… Also, not much difference between 3200 & 6400… Wierd!
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |A bit weird as before ISO 3200 was better than 1600 (to the amazement of almost everyone). And that was also with fw 1.02 (but those were colour charts and not ” real life”.
Still, a bit weird but more like could be expected.
www.MilosJanata.com
9 months ago |Yes, I saw that, maybe they generate artificial noise :]
john
9 months ago |Looks like if Sony took an A65 body and put the NEX 5n sensor in it and called it the new A57 they might have a hit.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |+ in 77 body.
Mike
9 months ago |With the new EVF and AF-adjust I’d instantly buy that A57.
knurd
9 months ago |+1
Kalpurush :)
9 months ago |without a second delay, I will pre-order the a57!
Spoon
9 months ago |It would add about 1/3 to half a stop noise performance and you lose some resolution. I doubt that would warrant a hit.
Clean and clear
9 months ago |Well, I think people who waste time crying and whining because this 24mp aps-c sensor is not noise free…are simply ridiculous. They don’t like photography at all, they are only gadget lovers. Real photographers don’t give a rat’s shit about noise-free images, they don’t fear to use high-isos because of noise.
knurd
9 months ago |I would say that gadget lovers would be into things like GPS, EVF, wishbone screen, etc. But having a sensor with high ISO opens up many creative possibilities for fast action, low light and night photography. People wanting to explore that are what I would consider photographers and not gadget lovers. What I would give to have a camera that could capture a family racoons on the beach at 2am without using a flash. Technically I could but the amount of detail lost at 12,800 ISO is not worth it.
TT11
9 months ago |still wondering as allready said before why people always talk about the high iso capabilities.
You can NOT compare Nex-5n with a65 or a77 for low light shooting.
You can do in theory but in praxis you have a tripod and can vary your exposure in a wide range. therefor high iso is not as necessary as talked about, or when you do handheld shots you have the super steady shot in a65 and a77 which you don’t have in Nex-5n…. I think you should compare Nex-5n iso 3200 to a77 and a65 iso 1600 + Super Steady shot turned on. that should be fair. Iguess a65 and a77 will perform much better.
But still A777 and A65 are very different cameras compared to the nex-5n. A65/77 is for people that want the stabilizer, cdaf+pdaf af and the form factor. Nex-5n is for those who want a small camera.
In addition to that really take into account that you don’t have to compare noise at pixel level when you compare sensors with same size and different megapixel counts….
i guess noise will not be that bad with the new cameras in pratical use.
Seriously guys when do you really need high iso and the nex-5n can be superior to the stabilized cameras? only when the movement of the object is so fast that you need short exposure times….
Raghav
9 months ago |The purpose of High ISO capability is very different from Image Stabilization. IS may be useful for static subjects, but not for fast action. Try shooting indoors sports with the 70-400mm at f5.6 or outdoor sports on an overcast day. With the 10 & 12 fps modes on the A65 & A77, clean high ISO would have been complementary.
TT11
9 months ago |you’re right with that. You need high iso end short exposure times for that. But most people who are complaining about that are not into sports fotography and for most of them IS is a real solution for the lack of high iso qualities….
On the other Side. Images look really good until ISO 1600. How often does anybody use ISOs higher than 1600????
I don’t need that in most cases. And i think 95% of the complainers don’t need that too…
john
9 months ago |I shoot mainly wildlife/macro and often times need shutter speeds of 1/2500+.
Try doing that without ,in good light,using ISO 1600 wide open.
If you want extra sharpness and DOF you have to stop the lens down more.
I for one could really use clean ISO 6400.
If Sony implemented unlimited flash sync it would be a different story and I still hate using flash.
But thats a few years off.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |But how many times do you really need 24 MP over say; 16?
Bruce Ramage
9 months ago |I’m not complaining at all, but I shoot at ISO 3200 often. When I can get 6400 or 12,800 I will take it in a moment. Light can be low when shooting people in conversation in situations without much light (and no opportunity to add light). But it’s getting better and better every day!
SRL
9 months ago |well, the good news for me is that so far, I see no business need for me to replace my investment in my two alpha a850’s with the a77…….so, I continue to plan on spending my cash on whatever Sony does next year or so with its full-frame replacement.
I’m still debating on the NEX 7 though for my street work as carrying even one a850 with any decent lens, let alone a70-200 /f2.8 G lens makes me stick-out big time.
Likely more the lens than the camera
I do continue to dream about a NEX 7 or 9? with some high quality native-mount optics to use when the big iron is too much of a distraction to getting the shot.
My dear Admin, any camera or lens rumors to feed us hungry full-framers yet?
lorenzino
9 months ago |@ TT11
Either way the best solution would be a fast lens, unless you want DOF.
I wonder if the Nex system will ever get fast but small lenses. For the alpha system there is already something nice. I think that the combo of a good high-iso sensor plus fast lenses are already giving us possibilities beyond what could have been imagined few years ago (do you remember all the talk about 6 mp being the maximum amount of mp for decent 1600 iso shooting?)
Mikey
9 months ago |All this talk of noise and still no real evaluation of dynamic range at higher or even lower ISOs. I wonder if the a65/77 will shine in that department…?
Carl
9 months ago |Measurebaters love their high ISOs, that’s why. It’s much harder to reduce Dmax measurements down to a series of little pictures the way ISO ranges and lens corner crops can be.
The D3X has over a stop more measured DR than the A900 has, but I’ve yet to see anyone post any comparisons that clearly show the difference that makes.
GH
9 months ago |Realistically, all the DR advantage means is the ability to boost shadows in the D3x is more effective than in the A900, and that makes sense to me, as someone who used the A900 for over 2 years. While boosting shadows in the A900 is much better than the banding mess of the 5Dii, the A900′s shadows still have some issues at base ISO.
Pulls hair!
9 months ago |Slight off topic here, say there’s a 3 month old used 850 for about USD 1000, but I’d need to take a ‘loan’ from a friend, or suck it up and forget about it and save up for the fuuuuuuture (gawd knows when) SLT-FF.. What’s your say?
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |I would take the 850, and if you really want teh coming ff: use the 850 for 2-3 years and then spend the 1500 or more that you saved (for the new ff will be expensive) and buy a second body (newer type). Or even better: spend it on a good lens.
But a loan for a body ..
Anyway it’s up to you!
extra|ordinary
9 months ago |Buy the a850…especially at that price!
Carl
9 months ago |Unless you need something the 850 is lacking (live-view for example), it sounds like you’re going to quite a bit of bang for your buck, there. If you can swing it financially, I’d recommend it.
Vlad3D
9 months ago |Talking about high ISOs, what do you guys think will work better: Nex7 + 50mm 1.8 OSS or A65 + Sigma 50mm 1.4 EX DG HSM? Will the 30% light loss in the mirror of A65 kill the advantage in faster aperture?
Carl
9 months ago |Ignoring light transmission entirely, the Sigma 50/1.4 is probably a better lens optically than the 50/1.8OSS will be, assuming Sony hasn’t outdone themselves. The Sigma is very good, is fully usable wide open and with good bokeh to boot. Ultrasonic focusing, too. Only downside is that its colours are a bit flat.
The NEX-7 combo will be smaller and lighter, of course.
Frank Withers
9 months ago |Get the A850. Period.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |I like the review but I think he mixed up his calculation: 50 weeks of 200 frames is 10,000 so the 65 has a 100,000 in 10 years, not 15. Still it is probably the minimum number the shutter can take and a 100,000 frames is still a lot, and 10 years still a long time.
monkeyfacemcbride
9 months ago |the quoted shutter life for the A77 and A65 is 150,000 not 100,000. So 15 years it is.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |Of course I know the 77 would be 15 years in that case. But as I said: a mix up, for the article states: “the A65′s shutter will last for some 15 years” so it’s supposed to be the A65 and then it’s definitely wrong.