New A77 RAW samples for download (+ how to open them). Where are NEX-7 RAW’s?
The image on top shows the naked A77 AF sensor
There is a new set of 34 RAW images taken with the A77 by Dpnow (Click here to download them). You can find the RAW files of the ISO test at Focus Numerique (Click here and scroll right below the ISO testimages).
How to open the RAW images? There are three ways:
Geert wrote us: “I edited the file headers towards the EXIF of A55 RAW files and they opened without any problem in Capture One 6 Pro.”
A Mac Only BETA Raw Processing for A77 Dpreview forum.
For Windows, RAW support at: Visualbakery.com.
BIG question: I cannot find any NEX-7 RAW image samples! I would like to compare the NEX-7 RAW images versus the A77 RAW images to see if there is any image quality difference. Because I want to see if the NEX-7 images are slightly better due the absence of the transparent mirror light loss!
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Preorder links of ALL new Sony cameras and lenses:
Sony A77 with 16-50mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A77 body only at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A65 with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto (notification only), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A65 body only at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto (notification only), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-7 body only at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-7 with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-5N with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto, Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-5N at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto, and Sonystore (Click here).
Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 E-mount at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony 50mm f/1.8 at BHphoto (notification only), Adorama and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony 55-210mm E-mount at Amazon (Click here), Adorama, Bhphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).


Linh
9 months ago |Yes, I’d like to see some NEX-7 RAWs before deciding on 5N or 7.
hiepphotog
9 months ago |Or get both, they have different purpose
acolyte
9 months ago |Unfortunately, $$$ doesn’t rain ffrom the sky
Steve Jones
9 months ago |I would be very cautious about reading too much into RAW files which have been opened by either hacking the files to look like those from the A55 or beta versions of RAW converters. It takes time to get optimise the settings of a RAW converter for any given camera and, as anybody who remembers can recall, early support for the A700 from Adobe’s Camera Raw did it no favours.
I think the real position won’t become clear for a couple of months. However, I’m expecting the A77 to achive something close to the high ISO performance of the A580 whilst the NEX7 will be a little better. Logic says the NEX 7 should have performance about half a stop better than the A77.
P
9 months ago |Exactly…no point to compare RAW or JPEG files from the beta examples of A77 with other cameras…better to wait for JPEG samples from a production A77 and compare RAW-files when we have a converter that fully support A77 RAW-files.
Iliah
9 months ago |There is always a chance that we are missing something deciphering raw formats. Currently we are working to make sure conversions go correct. But I would suggest not to expect any major noise performance improvements from raw with a77 – unless production firmware takes care of it. In my opinion an option of recording an uncompressed raw is a welcome addition to a77 and NEX-7.
Wheelus
9 months ago |Photoshop has just updated its software. The update includes the Sony A35 which was released this month, so I wouldn’t expect a two month delay.
Nico
9 months ago |I’m a bit worried about the Nex-7 availability on November…
There is absolutly nowhere an example of a working Nex-7 body ! Only mockups were shown, I think we’ll have to wait for along time to get one…
Don Cox
9 months ago |I would rather they took their time to get it right.
If the NEX-7 finally appears in February or March, that would be no great disaster.
Nico
9 months ago |No for sure, disaster is for December 2012 !
So the other companies can take preorders for cameras they should release in 2012 !!
acolyte
9 months ago |Yes, need a good camera to document Dec 2012.
P
9 months ago |Exactly…
alphafan2011
9 months ago |well the positive news is that if there is no ready Nex-7 there is also no evidence that the High Iso IQ is as bad as the A77
spam
9 months ago |All review sites have reported that no NEX-7 cameras are available yet, which also explains why there are no RAW-files to download. It simply looks like NEX-7 is too far away from production status for representative files to be available.
Also agree with Steve Jones’s post above that hacking RAW-file headers isn’t what you want to do if you want production quality conversions. Better to wait for official support, or at least betas with correct colortables.
P
9 months ago |There are many sites that have tested Nex-7…a reason why there is now images sampels from Nex-7 could be that the software wasn´t fully functional in the beta-exampels of the Nex-7…i have no doubt that the Nex-7 will be out on the market in time.
zstan
9 months ago |There was NO NEX 7 software! The camera has been using the 5N software all the while when the reviewers were previewing the pre production units.
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |I know why andrea worry nex7 raw, because he wish to buy nex7
admin
9 months ago |hihihihihi
santela
9 months ago |i must say, the jpeg results are very disappointing at high ISO.
But then I only shoot raw, so please Sony, make it worth my while!
P
9 months ago |Why are you worried..all the samples we have seen are from beta-cameras…the production-version of A77 will be better when it comes to JPEG quality.
santela
9 months ago |crossing my fingers that u r right
alphafan2011
9 months ago |what? are there NEX-7 jpeg samples? havent seen them … thought all of the pics where from A77 or NEX-5N
niels
9 months ago |That picture isn’t the imagesensor of the a77 and NEX-7, but the AF-sensor of the a77
admin
9 months ago |Damn, posted the wrong pictures. Will post the sensor pic next time
Alpha Mark
9 months ago |we all make mistakes…but admin, i must say you work very hard!!!
Jakob Røjel
9 months ago |The A77 (v0.58) opens fine in DxO Pro (after changing the camera name to A55 in the EXIF info
Sandro
9 months ago |Where are the videos??
grumps
9 months ago |The A77 high ISO samples are not good to begin with, sure some might say it’s early prototype, but sorry if the 5n can already have decent samples, why can’t the A77. I cannot see the Nex7 having equal performance with the A77 either, in fact, I think it will be degraded even. Of course this is speculation, but due to a rather educated guess about hot the A77 is designed and from what we have been seeing with the E-mount lenses. Now we are adapting the sensor without mirror onto the Nex7 and mount!
Surely not showing any images are clues enough, I’m sure if it were any good they will be showing it off like crazy!
P
9 months ago |The Nex-5N is not a totally new camera…it´s just a hotter version of Nex-C3.
The pictures that we have seen from the Nex-5N are probably from production ready examples of the Nex-5C
alphafan2011
9 months ago |yes, but that its “probably production ready” is not the reason why its much better IQ than the A77, the reason is again the 16 MP against 24 MP of course!
you can see the same with Canon, the 7D does have a worse high iso quality compared to the D7000 mainly because of 18 MP against 16 MP … BUT, maybe 18 MP is barely acceptable, but 24 MP is TOO much for such a small APS-C sensor, show me one camera with APS-C which has more than 22 MP and a good high Iso performance …
the only thing Sony could change this is to build a mechanism into the A77 which makes it possible to shoot with 12 MP but also the full sensor. but therefore the pixels have to join together in this mode and its not so easy, i think Fuji tried it with some compacts, right?
Eric
9 months ago |I have to admit I’m also bit concerned about the sample images I’m seeing. I was so excited after seeing the NEX-7 I returned my newly acquired m4/3′s glass because I knew I will soon be switching to the NEX-7, but now I’m not so sure. We haven’t seen a true RAW conversion yet, but the A-77 JPEG’s I’ve seen haven’t looked that good, and these RAW files converted using RAW Therapy look downright awful. I love the design of the NEX-7, but if it doesn’t have the IQ to match the sexy body then it could be a giant failure. As of right now I haven’t seen a sample image that makes me think it is going to have any better IQ than a Panasonic GH2.
alphafan2011
9 months ago |yes you are right, to be honest, the A77 or the Nex-7 should be my entry in the little bit more professional camera region… currently I’m shooting with Canon SX230 with CHDK and its a very good camera in good light. But i also wanted to extend my low light shooting, especially some without tripod (with my Canon its not possible). But if I now see the low light/high Iso results :-/ not so good …
And yes, RAW conversion is mostly better, also with my Canon thanks to CHDK! But, I dont want to be limited to RAW, because the jpeg is too bad! Sometimes for single special shoots of course RAW is needed, but not for every shoot then :-/ cause it also fills the small buffer of the A77 much faster!
And now im thinking, I will wait for the results of the final A65/A77 images maybe in the end of September, but if they are not much better, then I will choose between the probably cheap A55, the new NEX-5N and the Panasonic GH2! But with the NEX I still have the problem, that they build too large and too less lenses. Panasonic is much ahead in this relation! 3D lens, very fast lenses, now for video shooting a fast, quiet and SMALL 14-42 lens and so on … Sony has to react!
a4wander
9 months ago |Well – these are MUCH better high ISO samples (from an updated camera – not a prototype – not quite sure what that means, it might be more than just firmware):
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=39213708
If these are representative (and i hope they are) – Then this camera has some real promise – not just for Sony (and by their usage of Sony Sensors – Nikon)…
Cant wait for the real reviews to find out the score.
Almond
9 months ago |NEX5N sensor has been in production for some time now as it’s the same sensor that is in A35 and NEX3C.
SRL
9 months ago |So, to be clear, if you rely on RAW files or don’t wish to use .jpg’s, not only will many of us need to wait for Sony’s engineers we will also need Adobe to update Photoshop/Lightroom and ACR before we have the same functionality we have with our current Alpha within those programs.
Is this correct?
Steve Jones
9 months ago |That’s correct – you need an update to Adobe’s Camera Raw software before you can process A77 RAW files in Lightroom & Photoshop. Hopefully Adobe will have that ready by the time the production cameras ship. Given the importance of LR and PS to any serious camera, Sony will have been working with Adobe to get this released quickly and implemented well. Fortunately I don’t expect that a new version of Lightroom will be required, just an update. That’s not always the case, but as there’s no LR 4 around, then we won’t get forced to upgrade should e buy an A77, A65 or NEX 7. However, we might have to wait.
Zonkie
9 months ago |I don’t expect any surprise. The A77 should be similar to the A55 and A35 (could be slightly worse when comparing images at the same size, but by little. And then it does have more resolution). The NEX-7 should be like the NEX-5N or the A580 (again, maybe slightly worse in noise but with more resolution).
Comparing the A77 with the NEX-7 you can expect about 1/2 of an f-stop worse.
alphafan2011
9 months ago |you are right, but what benefit you have from the higher resolution when you have more noise and all the contrast edges are too noisy to make them sharper!
Sony has definately made something wrong with the large resolution. Who needs it? The people who “need it” do it professionally and they also pay more for full frame cams, then the resolution makes sense!
So as a conclusion the higher resolution has as an advantage more pixels which is nice, but as the disadvantages more noise compared to a lower resolution on the same sensor and not to for get a much faster buffer filling which results in a lower amount of really “continous” shots thanks to the bigger file sizes!
Nawaf
9 months ago |Why did Sony choose a 24MP instead of 16MP or 18MP? Andrea could you ask your sources?
Just need to know the advantages, since we already know the disadvantages.
Is it detail only? Diminishing returns anyone
P
9 months ago |They are sure that the sensor is that good(better than the 16mp) plus it’s a great sallow argument that attract buyers.
Steve Jones
9 months ago |There are a lot of myths about smaller photosites. Essentially picture quality is ultimately limited by the amount of light available which is purely a function of the sensor size (when using lenses giving equivalent FoV). Yes, smaller pixels have a higher noise floor (due to photon shot noise), but what people miss out is that the higher spatial frequency of sampling will cancel that out for equivalent output resolution. Of course one might ask why keep pushing sensor resolution beyond that which the lenses can resolve, to which the answer is that the bayer pattern filters are actually a 2 x 2 array and, until we reach the point where this 4 photosite cell is smaller than the resolving power of lenses, there are still improvements to be made.
This is one website which covers the larger photosites are better myth :-
http://community.the-digital-picture.com/photography_gear1/f/7/t/1055.aspx
I expect the 24MP sensor to be better (at normalised output) than the 16MP one as measured by objective measures. By that I mean that Dynamic Range, Noise and Colour Rendition will all be better as measured by DXOmark or comparable technical measures. That’s for like-for-like types of camera, so the A65 vs the A55 (not the A580). I can’t imagine that Sony would release a higher MP sensor for a headline figure only to be lambasted over the IQ. After all, the 16MP sensor beat the lower resolution predecessors.
Zonkie
9 months ago |Also don’t forget diffraction. This new sensor hits diffraction limit at about f/7, which means that from that point on (smaller apertures: f/8, f/11,…) the resolution of the image will go down, no matter the 24MP of the camera.
That’s what is happening with compact cameras already. With 14-16 MP they are diffraction limited at around f/2.8, which makes virtually all images look soft (and it makes the 14-16 MP useless in the first place).
acolyte
9 months ago |Wut? The diffraction limit for Sony’s 14-16 MP sensors is around 2.8?
That’s interesting o_O That sort of thought never came to me.
So it’s 14-16MP in terms of pixels but not resolution?
Zonkie
9 months ago |Sony’s sensors for COMPACT cameras are the ones that hit the diffraction limit at f/2.8 (and not only Sony’s, but all compact cameras with such MP count).
I’m no expert in the area, but for what I know: diffraction is higher with smaller apertures. So for an APS-C sensor size like the one used by Sony, at f/8 the maximum you could resolve is about 20MP. At f/11 about 12MP. So if you shoot at f/11, no matter if you have 12 or 24 megapixels, the amount of detail captured is exactly the same. Only the 24 MP image will have a bigger physical size and will look soft at 100% magnification.
A small sensor like the ones found in compact cameras can resolve about 12 MP at f/2.8, and barely 6MP at f/4. That’s why once they went over 10 MP images started to look so soft (no more detail is captured, unless they use very fast lenses or have slightly bigger sensor – like the premium ones).
Nawaf
9 months ago |Thanks for the explanation but the first paragraph went way over my head
That’s the thing, we can’t compare the DR or noise or whatever you want to throw in there at the moment. Not until we get the reviews at least.
In the case of the NEX 7 (I will be getting this beauty!), I’m sure it’s going to be used as a walk around camera. This type need to have low light capabilities, since they will be used indoors, outdoors, and night photography. Same way I’ve used the NEX 5 because it’s very light, and doesn’t attract attention like a DSLR does.
I hope it’s as capable if not better than the NEX 5N. High ISO should look good, because if I can get a good picture from my 7D with a 3 year old sensor at ISO 2500, then this 24MP sensor should be able to do even better.
Alfonso Cuitiño
9 months ago |Hey Andrea, did you see this? NEX-3 for $299 :O http://sonyalphanex.blogspot.com/2011/08/sony-nex-3-kit-299-half-price.html
Iliah
9 months ago |Larger pixels are better because they can have deeper wells. If you are presented with a high dynamic range scene you can easily appreciate it. Also, larger pixels add less flare and produce raw files with better linearity.
El Aura
9 months ago |Care to provide some data? Taking the two most recent headline Sony sensors, the 12 MP in the Nikon D300 and the 16 MP in the D7000, at ISO 200, the D7000 pixel as a larger saturation capacity than the D300 pixel, despite the D300 pixel having a 30% larger size. And going to ISO 100, which only the D7000 sensor offers, the saturation capacity more than doubles. Overall the smaller pixel of the D7000 sensor has about three times the saturation capacity per sensor area than the D300 sensor.
But I am sure that must be a complete fluke since you say the larger pixels have the larger saturation capacity and I am equally sure you will provide me with tons of counter examples.
Iliah
9 months ago |Do you suggest that larger pixels on say D3s have the same saturation capacity as D300? I would be interested to see your measurements supporting such POV.
El Aura
9 months ago |What counts is saturation capacity per area not per pixel, eg, e- per square micron, since your argument was not about sensor size but about pixel size.
Here all Nikon DSLRs since the D2H:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4218/71060379.png
I don’t see any trend that larger pixels correlate with higher specific saturation capacity (SC per area), rather quite the contrary. Of course, you can always pick two cameras where your statement is true but overall the trend you proclaim is not there.
Iliah
9 months ago |You think wrong. The depth of the well, each well, is important if you need to record a high dynamic range scene. For highlights you can’t replace a single pixel with several pixels; so the option is to underexpose and pray scaling down (binning) will take care of noise. And of course it does not help fight in-camera and on-sensor flare.
Now, you are also missing “can” in my initial response.
For some reason your post has no reply link, so answering you here.
El Aura
9 months ago |Assume for a second that saturation capacity per area is constant (it isn’t, it tends to go up with smaller pixels). If your scene DR requires the large saturation capacity of a 6 MP sensor pixel or by extension the SC of four pooled 24 MP sensor pixels, then it does not matter which sensor you use, both will capture the same DR in a final 6 MP image. So, zero advantage for the larger pixels but also zero advantage for the smaller pixels. If your next shot then has a smaller scene DR, your 24 MP sensor will resolve noticeably more detail while capturing the DR as well as your 6 MP sensor. Advantage 24 MP sensor.
BTW, your sentence: “For highlights you can’t replace a single pixel with several pixels; so the option is to underexpose and pray scaling down (binning) will take care of noise.” That is exactly what is also happening with larger pixels. For constant SC per area, a larger pixel will be equally blown at the same exposure, thus you have to reduce exposure in both cases, and rely in both cases that either the ‘binning’ by using a larger pixel or by actual binning of smaller pixels reduces your noise.
And I would love to hear how pixel size interacts with flare, I have no idea what relationship you have in mind there.
In the end it very much feels like your thinking is guided by the correct idea that a 24 MP FX sensor is better than a 24 MP DX sensor, but then you make the incorrect conclusion that the reason is the larger pixels and not the larger sensor area that is covering a given detail in your scene.
Iliah
9 months ago |Thing is, there is nothing to assume. Underexpose on your sensor filling the frame, expose correctly filling half a frame, compare results. Simple, very revealing experiment.
The more curved surfaces you have the more flare and veiling glare is formed.
Some people tend to ignore many factors in their analysis and skip experiments. I have sensors with logarithmic response, huge pixels and 120dB dynamic range. Those sensors are rather small in pixel count, but what they do I can’t match using high pixel count sensors.
El Aura
9 months ago |You claim that smaller microlenses lead to more flare? Care to provide some evidence or corroboration from other people?
And care to provide some data on those huge pixel sensors? Like pixel size, definition of DR that was used for the 120 dB (eg, the DxO criterion)? So we can compare them to other sensors instead of just taking your word that they are ‘better’ than other, smaller-pixel sensors.
Iliah
9 months ago |Please do the experiment I suggested. As far as flare, it is simple physics, you can figure it out yourself.
And please stop using that royal “we”.
El Aura
9 months ago |How do I do the experiment if I don’t have cameras which can take the same lens but have differently sized pixels? I cannot.
BTW, ‘we’ refers to the majority of people discussing these things at a somewhat technical level. Your position is a minority position.
Iliah
9 months ago |You can re-read the experiment description and try to understand it, really try.
Minority position, you say. Well, everything starts as a minority position.
They say that in the stone age folks believed that the wheel pounds because of corners, and they knew that a circle is a polygon with an infinite number of corners – so they devised that a round wheel will rattle infinitely more and kept making triangle wheels.
“We” is either a royal, or speaking for others. Not a good thing, if the latter.
El Aura
9 months ago |You obviously want to make two points, a first one you refuse to explain in more detail (because it would be below you to waste your time explaining anything to people more stupid than you) and a second one that I am too stupid to understand your first point (which neatly puts into question everything I have said). I cannot help but feel that that second point is more important to you since you make it much more clearly than the first one.
Speaking for others is a bad thing? I thought whenever a group of people agree on something and want to articulate that, using ‘we’ is the most straightforward way of declaring that there is more than one person behind a position.
But naturally, if your experience is nobody ever agrees with you, it might feel strange to you that others might agree on something.
Iliah
9 months ago |I believe in knowledge founded in personal experience, through a series of carefully executed experiments. Even if some convincing experiments are presented, the first thing to do is to repeat them to understand the technique and shortcomings; and to develop further experiments.
Advocating speech on behalf of others, you conclude “because it would be below you to waste your time explaining anything to people more stupid than you” – speaking for me now. But you are terribly wrong, once again oversimplifying things. Additionally the format of this forum is not suitable at all for long explanations and image examples.
El Aura
9 months ago |I am presenting how I understand your posts. I am not speaking for you, I am just relaying how I perceive things at my end.
Iliah
9 months ago |Same way as you may misrepresent the opinions of others, saying “we”. Back to photography.
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |someone can confirm this is a77 FW 1.0 JPEG sample iso 50-12800 ?
http://www.fotomagazin.de/test_technik/testbilder/detail.php?
objectID=5412
12,800 iso look nice.
Jiri
9 months ago |Well, the EXIF says: Model: SLT-A77V. It should be all right then?
And the GPS shows Athenes as place the pictures were shot.
Jakob Røjel
9 months ago |Look for the EXIF “Program Name” it shall read SLT-A77V v1.00
Jiri
9 months ago |Yes, it says: Software: SLT-A77V v1.00.
O.K. then?
Jakob Røjel
9 months ago |I think so, the ones from imaging-resources says v0.58
acolyte
9 months ago |So v1.00 = first batch of production model?
Cliff
9 months ago |I think the real “sleeper” this year in Sony’s new lineup is the NEX VG20.
Has the NEX 5N 16mp sensor. (Sony’s BEST sensor to today?)
Has full peaking and zebra functions
Expanded zoom focus button
NO video time limit
Supports RAW shooting
EXTREMELY long battery life.
Takes; E mount, A mount, NIKON, Canon, PL mount 4/3…whatever lens you want!
20,000+ ISO!
Alpha flash shoe, standard cold shoe too.
INCREDIBLE audio! (I own a VG 10)
Allot more!
This thing is a TRUE Sony beast!
If you can just get past the “odd” form factor,…it’s a KILLER camera.
Cliff
hiepphotog
9 months ago |And it comes with a killer price as well.
Cliff
9 months ago |Oh….and the VG 20 has full light exposure to the sensor. It doesn’t shoot images through a weird mirror surface…LOL
Another nice advantage!
Cliff
dangerbane
9 months ago |No to mention, you can use Translucent quick AF via the adapter …
Audio can be now manually controlled
but still few things which not confirm … the manually controlled audio on VG20 is 5 channel (due to its mic) what happen if you input audio like from ZOOM H4N ? does it able to manual control external audio?
acolyte
9 months ago |Removed. I judge my post as unimportant.
Jakob Røjel
9 months ago |It is all guesswork, but there is some quality improvement.
Dave
9 months ago |I am NOT a techno geek by a long shot, just a humble user of MINOLTA gear for 40 years, 22 of which was served as a working pro.. I’ve had a keen interest in SONY’s offerings in recent years, as I would like to upgrade from my MAXXUM 9, without going to a Hard Drive bashing 24MP files. From everything that I’ve read in the last few days by “the techno geeks” who really know their stuff, SONY should KILL this a77, and reissue it with the same 16MP sensor as the a580, leave out the video, put in an OVF and mirror(who gives a crap about a little mirror slap?)and last but not least, make that 16 MP sensor a FF one. Now, wouldn’t that be one KILLER of a camera eh? They could even call it the a666 for LOL!
emopunk
9 months ago |This camera should have been coming out with dual BIONZ and 18mpx FF sensor. That would have been a hit..
www.MilosJanata.com
9 months ago |I would buy it
Leo
9 months ago |Why don’t you look at the low ISO of A77? Plenty of details are provided by low ISO image from A77, which is on par with the A900. And the high ISO isn’t that bad. ISO3200 is still usable if you don’t do 100% crop.
To say which sensor is better, I think the low ISO performance should also be considered. The 16mp sensor is doing very well in low light, but for good light the A77 is better.
Mist
9 months ago |andrea, no more news from your sources about the 24mp sensor quality?
KingRenas
9 months ago |Is alright Sony, I know that you want to sell more A77 models than NEX-7 because of the effort you made for that camera.
Even with all the extras A77 have, I think many of us still want the NEX-7, it is a beauty. We don’t mind the GPS (excuse me), water sealed (excuse me), plus all other extras of A77 at the moment, you can deliver that on a full frame as we both know the NEX-9.
Oh…keep the good job Sony.
acolyte
9 months ago |But I want A77 for the size & mount…
Even though initially I wanted a NEX 7 for backup, now I feel NEX 5N would do enough for the lens they have right now :\
Lol. NEX 7 may be too small for my hands (I need a hands on!)
And my glass would look ridiculous on NEX 7.
I don’t usually complain about this, but if they put out more glass I will be more convinced to buy NEX 7
grumps
9 months ago |I think a good IQ 24MP APSC sensor is very possible, however, whether or not a manufacturer happens to produce a good quality version of is a matter of when.
Even if the current A77 remains just okay, there’s still possibility Sony can bring out a better product in the future. If spending so much on a camera and you are satisfied with the IQ performs, so be it. To me personally I find it very unacceptable. There are plenty of good cameras currently out there. It seems this current set of releases seem to be feature rich and have have great quality, however, again the implementation hasn’t matured yet, for me at least!
SteB
9 months ago |Thanks for the link to the RawTherapee converter. I downloaded some of the RAW files from Imaging Resource, and the detail generally was in a different league to the smear vision JPEGs. Topaz Denoise left plenty of detail at higher ISOs, without me fine tunining it. Yes you can see a bit of mazing in some colours at high magnification, but it’s what you expect with an untuned RAW converter. I can’t for the life of me understand why Sony allowed all those reviewers to snap lots of below par JPEGs.
acolyte
9 months ago |Not all popular reviewers do good reviews.
Because they’re significant names, so Sony passed it to them.
We could’ve done a better job.
J/K.
Jacky
9 months ago |A77 ISO6400 Raw VS Jpg(Firmware V1.0):
http://g2.img-dpreview.com/5EF8D8B75C234AE5A27AE403B8856827.jpg
Full Size: Click Original (5120×2880, 3.4MB) in the link below:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/6960610692/photos/1359759/a77-iso6400-raw-vs-jpg
loverhd
9 months ago |FYI: I would suggest you to see the set of raw and jpeg test files from the following source
http://www.forum.minolta-club.ru/showthread.php?t=48774
(in the post #2 from this thread)
You may use google translation from russian to read the conversation text.
The user RuleM there seems to have all the cameras from Sony for thest, and is actively doing the tests for the forum users and postings the tests files to the thread. The cameras he uses have the latest available firmware. And seems in a week or so he might complete its research and they (and hopefully we) might have some better picture about the actual status with these cameras IQ.
acolyte
9 months ago |Unrelated note: Google Translate do a good job translating that..
Cliff
9 months ago |I wonder how much help someone can give that A77 sensor if they pull out that “translucent” mirror?
Anybody know what the light diversion ratio is? 80/20?
80% through and 20% up?
Cliff
Nawaf
9 months ago |Not 100% sure but I recall it being 70/30
maddmack
9 months ago |not one person (consumer) on the planet has this camera and you want someone to take it apart, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you buy it,and before you use it take it apart,
and tell the world what you found.
looking forward to your findings.
acolyte
9 months ago |According to wiki it’s 1/3 EV, so that’s not even close to 1/3 of the light. Or does 1/3 EV means 1/3 of light?
El Aura
9 months ago |One third of the light equals 1/2 of a stop and that is the number I have seen quoted everywhere.
Cliff
9 months ago |I know, right? lol
All this talk of taking out the sacred translucent mirror that Sony spent soooo much time and effort to put in there….it’s BLASPHEMOUS! (and ironic!)
How DARE we ask the question of how much light is lost BEFORE it ever reaches the sensor. Horrible questions indeed!
Cliff
john
9 months ago |http://www.modelmayhem.com/17884
http://www.nickwebster.co.uk/a77/
pic from dyxum
flash so gobs of light low ISO but impressive detail
http://www.glaringnotebook.com/zimages/a77launch32.jpg
emarsh
9 months ago |These photos from the A77 are looking better and better on dpreview. They are revealing detail and color and excellent exposure. You must look at the original file, I don’t know what happened between yesterday and today but it’s a whole other ball game now. The photo of the scene in the grove of trees, in front of the lake, wow. You can even see that Walt Knapp fellow paddlin’ by in his yellow canoe.Lol. # Dsc00154. Open the full original image.
Aiden
9 months ago |1/3 of light is 1/2 a stop?
by that logic, all light is lost in 1 and 1/2 stops…..
really?
SQLGuy
9 months ago |F-stops are a logarithmic scale, like decibels, or half-lives. -3dB is 1/2 power, that doesn’t mean -6dB = no power… -6dB = 1/4 power.
F1.4 is one stop faster than F2. F1.4 is twice as bright as F2. One stop down is half the light, two stops down is 1/4 the light, 3 stops down is 1/8 the light…
So, yes, 1/3 light loss is about 1/2 a stop.
Necrosony
9 months ago |Where are those pictures that are supposedly so sharp that it can “tear our eyes out”? I remember someone on a chinese forums claiming to have such pictures taken with some zeiss lens.
I’ve seen most of the sample pictures but my eyes are still fine.
emarsh
9 months ago |They are on dpreview. As said before, you must click the link for the ‘original’ file. There are several 100-200 iso shots on there that are extremely sharp and detailed. Where it says ‘available sizes’ click on ‘original’ and let it load. http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1352349/dsc00571?inalbum=sony-slt-a77-preview-samples That is an iso 200 sample.
emarsh
9 months ago |And here: iso 200 http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352350.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314537820&Signature=OvZIpPYVQM5PuUrGas695mdjXOA%3d
emarsh
9 months ago |And here: iso 100 http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352350.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314537820&Signature=OvZIpPYVQM5PuUrGas695mdjXOA%3d Here: iso 200 http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352547.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314538217&Signature=2MQLYUj2nAj5Ldyve0Ry17SKTyc%3d
Mist
9 months ago |From the DP a77 v0.58 samples:
ISO1600:
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352348.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314505895&Signature=yjc6tNKCiQeK5dLzYBBRjX2fBG4%3d
ISO3200:
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352347.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314506550&Signature=3k1KDhi1aCe1Dk7j10Pmt9i6QmE%3d
ISO6400:
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352346.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314506543&Signature=h3A/tOrfaQg1RunPZDi2vkQJgxY%3d
ISO12800:
http://masters.galleries.dpreview.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1352345.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=14Y3MT0G2J4Y72K3ZXR2&Expires=1314506539&Signature=ABzGSh1/xP%2boX/Epx5zBl5TtUcg%3d
In my opinion, its is fine until ISO6400 right?
Can anyone share his opinion here about the samples above?
Really concern about its image quality because I had order NEX7 >.< before reading such many negative feedbacks about the sensor.
admin
9 months ago |I see an error message while trying to open the images!
Mist
9 months ago |Very sorry.
ISO1600:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1352348/dsc00562?inalbum=sony-slt-a77-preview-samples
ISO3200:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1352347/dsc00561?inalbum=sony-slt-a77-preview-samples
ISO6400:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1352346/dsc00560?inalbum=sony-slt-a77-preview-samples
ISO12800:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/1352345/dsc00559?inalbum=sony-slt-a77-preview-samples
Are the error fixed?
Alpha
9 months ago |Now that’s ironic…
Sony puts this 24 mp sensor into the a77 to attract buyers… But now this 24 mp sensor is pretty the only thing that keeps me from buying this camera (at the moment)!
Phil
9 months ago |I’m not completely convinced that the sensor is the primary problem if the RAW results appear to be much better than the JPEGs. If Sony calibrates the firmware, then the A77 can have competitive high ISO results in JPEG. The A700 shows that the quality of output can be improved, hopefully Sony gets it right by October.
I’m looking at the A77 to replace my A350. If there’s an A55 successor that uses the NEX-5n sensor with longer video recording capabilities, then that would be my first choice as I like the size of the A55.
Alpha
9 months ago |I´m pretty sure that with more pixels comes more noise…
So why don´t they “improve” their 16mp sensor to get better results instead of increasing the pixels and getting even more problems…
Zachery
9 months ago |Over at Luminous Landscape they did a thorough analysis of a large sample set of consistently measured sensors and found that sensor size is the only significant, consistent factor in noise. But there are misleading aspects to the average report for noise. The reason that “more pixels equals more noise” is believed is because in a way it’s true:
If you have more pixels in the same space, for any given pixel, the chance of it being noise is higher.
But, that’s not important. What matters is that for any given portion of a sensor, the total percentage of noise remains the same between pixel counts. So if you have a 1mmx1mm square on a sensor and there are (for sake of discussion this is not a realistic pixel count) 40000 pixels on one sensor in that space and 60,000 on another, the percentage of pixels that will be “noise” will be the about the same. That 1mmx1mm square will look almost the same except that on the sensor with more pixels, there is a *CHANCE* that more detail can be algorithmically derived from it.
Now, there are other factors that are more important than sensor size and pixel count. The reason you see some very good noise performance from a camera like the Nikon D3s is not because it uses so few pixels but because it uses advanced (and more expensive, difficult to manufacture) micro lenses and A/D conversion processors. The problem with that sensor is that the higher quality micro lenses can not be made small enough (or at least, they couldn’t at the time) to allow for more pixels as each photo site needs a lens.
So long story short, adding pixels does *NOT* implicitly add noise, but it can impact other aspects of a sensor that may result in worse *OR* better pictures than another same sized sensor with fewer pixels. But it can go both ways.
All this (relatively minor when mathematically compared) upgrade from 16 to 24mp means is that, assuming the whole pipeline of low pass, AA, etc. filters, the micro lenses, the photo sites (and their depth), the sensor size, the sensor itself and its power consumption (the actual main cause of noise), the A/D converter, the interpretation engine (that creates the RAW data), the image processor(s) and finally your RAW conversion tool of choice… if *ALL* of those things are as good for the new sensor, then you may be able to eek out a bit more fine detail and sharper looking edges for larger prints.
But hey if you’re shooting and printing/displaying at 8×10 or something similar, you won’t notice any improvement. It won’t even matter to you.
Of course, all of this comparison of a77 image quality is stupid at this point. The camera’s not ready. The image processor is a programmable device and tuning it well is the very last step in producing a camera. There’s no sense in even thinking about the posted images for comparison until production a77′s are out *AND* raw processing software has been updated and optimized for the camera.
Steve Jones
9 months ago |There is a thread on DPReview where it is claimed the reason the ImagingResources A77 JPEGs lack the finest detail is that they were shot with RAW+JPEG using standard (not light) NR on. The problem with RAW+JPEG is the latter are shot at fine, not superfine. The evidence for this was in the EXIF data and the smaller size of the A77 JPEGs vs the (lower resolution) D7000 shots. Of course JPEGs with limited detail and too much DR will be smaller, but if the camera has not been set for optimal JPEGs (at least on detail) then the comparison becomes misleading.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39208206
123
9 months ago |people stop torturing yourselves just go and buy a A35 you will be glad you did, and save hundreds the disappointment will not hurt that much
jerry lambert
3 months ago |way is it the a77 only has 1 raw format