Nikon 1 versus NEX posts…(and the NYT loves NEX!!!)
As you know Nikon announced their first mirrorless system and after reading some reviews it really sounds like the image quality is visibly behind the one offered by the Sony NEX system. The image on top is from DxOmark (Click here). They tested the Nikon sensor and as you can see it doesn’t come close to the one offered by the Sony NEX-C3. And I bet the score difference will be even higher once DxO will test the Sony NEX-5n. Click the links to see the comparisons: Nikon J1 vs Sony NEX-C3 vs Panasonic G3
Cameralabs (Click here) tested the new Nikon V1 and compared it with the NEX-7: “Most obviously the NEX-7 has a much larger and higher resolution sensor. The surface area is over three times greater, and it sports almost two and a half times as many pixels: 24.3 vs 10.1 Megapixels. Thanks to the larger surface area, the NEX-7 photosites are also about 50% larger in area, so it should enjoy a sensitivity advantage too.”
J1 versus NEX-5n comparison at Digitalcamerainfo (Click here): “The Sony’s large sensor advantage really rears its head in noise and dynamic range testing, however, as theNEX-5 is able to keep noise down to minimal levels while the J1 offers performance that is typical—if a bit behind—other mirrorless cameras we have tested to this point“.
And now let’s see what Canon will do to compete against the Sony NEX system…
Oh one more thing: Our reader Stefan sent us the link to an article on the New York Times (Click here) written by David Pogue. Actually it sounds like a Love-Letter to Sony: “I’m on record as being in love with Sony’s NEX series. These are extremely tiny interchangeable-lens cameras that, unlike the Nikon and Pentax, have huge, S.L.R.-sized sensors inside. (I’m going crazy waiting for November’s NEX-7, which adds the two things the NEX family was missing: a flash and an eyepiece viewfinder.)“.
Message to Sony: Your cameras are amazing, can you now please speed up the new NEX lens release?
Links to all new NEX cameras, lenses and the viewfinder:
Sony NEX-7 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Sony NEX-5n Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Sony 50mm f/1.8 Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
Sony 55-210mm Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
NEX-5n viewfinder Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay.
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Comment from ShamB: Well, if they can compare full frame CaN...
Comment from relax: Agreed.
About prices, perhaps these a...- Comment from relax: What happened was, Sony happened. Rememb...
Comment from acolyte: Eh go to proper forums for tech talk :s...
WilliamLeong
8 months ago |Seriously. Why am I not surprised?
matgay
8 months ago |thats not a fair comparison, the nikon j1 costs more. should be j1 versus nex5n.
acolyte
8 months ago |Cameralabs’? Maybe they didn’t have J1 on hand and need some hype.
ShamB
8 months ago |Well, if they can compare full frame CaNikon vs A77…
SLTPro
8 months ago |Laughable! The Nikon trolls can chew on this!
Billy bob
8 months ago |While you’re calling people trolls, and talking about Sony being the best, I was out making money with my Nikon d300s. I did it the same way I did my Siny a100 & a700, I provide amazing work regardless of sensor, iso capabilities, or stupid irrelevant tech talk. What did you do today with your Nikon/Canon killer of a camera?
acolyte
8 months ago |Sony may not be the best, but it may not be the worst as Canikon trolls implied
Let’s try to keep hostilities to a minimum shall we?
There’ll be more trolls coming our way when Sony’s FF comes, Canikon or Sony’s so prepare for that.
Vlad
8 months ago |This is the site for tech talk.
acolyte
8 months ago |Eh go to proper forums for tech talk :s
LuckyNumberSlevin
8 months ago |Apples and grapes. Lets compare the NEX to MF and see which is better. Its always nice to measure yourself vs a totally different segment that is clearly inferior.
Now, NEX C3 vs leica M9 is just such a comparisson.
Sky_walker
8 months ago |And why is it? Nikon clearly aims the same people with it’s V1 (if you dare to say that J1 is something completely different, below NEX and m4/3), even tells itself that it’s enthusiast-aimed camera (which is a huge overstatement IMO), it’s also priced similarly and share similar features / size.
So how comparing Nikon 1 to Sony NEX is the same thing as comparing NEX to Medium Format?
If Nikon would cut prices of it’s system by 75% and make it actually as small as sensor size allows it than I’d consider what you are saying is true, but now? No way. Comparing NEX to Nikon 1 is as fair as it gets.
acolyte
8 months ago |It’s funny that when people say that V1/J1 doesn’t compare to NEX, they say that Nikon has done it right (read: dpreview). Now when we try to compare the quality, they say it’s not right to compare V1/J1 to NEX, that they should compare NEX to Leica.
Ah, how convenient the world is.
Alex
8 months ago |Why so many Slovak sources and links? On Nikonrumors the same, too much SK.
Is Slovakia a whole rumors source or what?
Don Cox
8 months ago |“Message to Sony: Your cameras are amazing, can you now please speed up the new NEX lens release?”
My message would be, “Don’t rush your designs and turn out a bunch of ill-thought-out lenses. Take your time, do plenty of testing (including loans to top photographers), and make each lens as good as it can possibly be.”
A helical-focussing (manual) extension tube would be a good addition to the system.
acolyte
8 months ago |You realize that the majority is not as patient as you?
If consumers is as patient and level headed as you are, then rumors site like this wouldn’t get much travelers o.o
elliot
8 months ago |Thought this was a Sony site, not a “let’s get defensive about any competitors” site.
Doraemon
8 months ago |OMG…. Did Sony just Own Nikon in mirrorless
FK
8 months ago |It’s even worse then I expected but then again besides form the ISO it’s not that bad, for somebody who owned a point and shoot before it might actually be a step up. Even though the Nex would be a way bigger step up.
Don
8 months ago |From Cameralabs:
Sony’s Alpha NEX-7 is the most obvious rival to the Nikon 1 V1:
This alone makes the article sound questionable.
Chris Lewis
8 months ago |A rival maybe, but not a serious one imo. They’re not in the same ball game.
It just goes to show that some reviewers are just putting the time in and not doing their jobs properly. Maybe they could do a comparison between a Land Rover and a Mini in their respective merits as off road vehicles??
acolyte
8 months ago |They do their jobs properly. It’s to attract attention.
Whether it’s useful, credible, or sensible, that’s another story.
Don Cox
8 months ago |“Did Sony just Own Nikon in mirrorless”
They did if you want large prints.
I think Nikon have aimed their new cameras at a market of users who never make prints, or make only wallet-size prints. Their expected customers view all their photos on TVs, in digital photo frames, on phones or tablets, and often in web pages.
For these customers, 10 megapixels is lavish, and noise is not really a problem because the images will normally be heavily reduced in size to two Mpix or less.
On the other hand, a very fast shooting speed for capturing kids in action is a strong selling point.
It is a different market from the NEX series. (But Sony may need to increase the shooting speed of the C3 in response.)
slo.metallc
8 months ago |O.K. since you started to compare the Nex C3 vs. Nikon (i guess J1)
Well considering your point about printing… that’s true… most ppl nowdays wont print their pictures…
But you are talking about ppl that used P&S before, P&S for 100-200€ and now want to upgrade their system…
1st they will look up the price (ok maybe brand b4 price) and nex C3 with 18-55mm is abut 478€ in europe (@digitalrev) and nikon J1 is estimated to be round 650-700€ with 10-30mm lens.
So for most P&S upgraders that know nothing or very little bout mirrorless or DSLR’s NEX C3 is a winner…
If someone of those P&S shoters will than compare NEX C3 and Nikon J1, than after price the nex thing a P&S user will look is MP… and you can bet bigger is better for them(16 MP Nex C3 vs. 10MP Nikon J1 – do the math). And since they are P&S – do you really think that they will bother to downsample pictures to 2 MP. They are used to watch it on TV, PC, or wherever SOC (straight out of camera), and i bet 75% that will upgrade will stil use it the same way – as P&S equipment.
I bet 60% or more of them will shot on auto mode forever. So high ISO and IQ are noth their main concern.
In my opinion Nikon beats Nex C3 in basicly the brand name (Nikon vs. Sony), built in flash and speed (5 fps in speed mode on Nex C3 against 10 fps on Nikon J1).
But Nikon J1 has huge drawback… his price automaticly puts him on level with Nex 5N and IMHO it is no match for Nex N5, except in the brand name and built in flash (yes, P&S probably wont buy extra flash)…
just my 2 cents on how i see P&S will react on Nikon J1 vs Nex C3 camera.
But if you look from the perspective of amateur photographs (users of entry level APS-C DSLP’s or already users of mirrorles cameras) that are concerned about pixelpeeping and high ISO IQ, I think they already picked Nex 5N as a winer (even those from Nikon camp that have he ability to see beyond brand name obstacle), so I think there is no need to discuss that
. And those ppl dont bother to compare nikon J1 to Nex C3 simply becouse of price tag…
Don Cox
8 months ago |“And since they are P&S – do you really think that they will bother to downsample pictures to 2 MP. They are used to watch it on TV, PC, or wherever SOC (straight out of camera),”
They will not consciously downsample the pictures. The TV or Facebook or whatever will do it automatically.
acolyte
8 months ago |+1
Chris Lewis
8 months ago |“Message to Sony: Your cameras are amazing, can you now please speed up the new NEX lens [and camera] release?”
Amen to that!
Allan
8 months ago |I really love Nikon and Have huge respect for their caméras … But working 4 Years to release This !!!! What a damn s@#t !!!
I Can t understand .. Compare to nex , Nikon is beaten by KO ! I would Have loved a better compétition, it would have had a better impact on prices .. Sad
Sky_walker
8 months ago |Nah, with these “4 years of development” they overstate it as much as it gets. I guess 4 years ago someone in a company came out with the idea of big compact camera with EVF
but besides this – I don’t believe that they designed mirrorless camera through 4 years.
If they would – Nikon 1 would be some competition on market, come out with several good lenses and whole set of accessories, not even telling about having very competitive features cause they got plenty of time to adjust to the market, and yet they did nothing.
It looks more like a project made in 10 months because someone in Nikon suddenly woke up and noticed that mirrorless cameras destroyed Bridge cameras and slowly eat both – entry-level DSLRs and advanced compacts.
Some nasty people tell that Nikon in did made this camera 4 years ago and released it now, that’s why such a poor specs, but… I don’t believe them
acolyte
8 months ago |Maybe it’s more like:
Engineer: ‘Here’s my new design’
Manager: ‘Your bs design wouldn’t sell’
Engineer: ‘Oh ok..’ *throws it down the recycling bin*
[Not long after]
Manager: ‘Crap, Sony is making a lot of money from mirrorless. Get me your design.’
Engineer: *searches recycling bin* ‘Umm this one?’
Manager: ‘Yes. Finish it now.’
Engineer: ‘But it wouldn’t compare to Sony’s’
Manager: ‘Hype first. Then we’ll go from there.’
Holy Bear
8 months ago |IMO Sony’s new A77 (or just the 24MP sensor) is in the same situation as Nikon’s V1/J1…..took long time to develop and the final product is not very good.
lhkjacky
8 months ago |The SLT A77 scored 78.
and
the NEX7 most possibly score over 80.
(The mirrorless camera usually score 7pt higher than SLT with the same sensor.)
Except the firmware issue, I am highly satisfied with my A77.
acolyte
8 months ago |‘Not very good’ is relative.
On the scores it proves itself. And Nikon has proven themselves with the scores also.
So, is A77 as ‘not very good’ as V1/J1?
A77 went beyond my expectations. People are never satisfied, but why should you follow the mass?
As a photographer, you’re on your own, except if you own a studio. So why bother? When people mock you due to your gear, does that mean you suck as a photographer?
relax
8 months ago |What happened was, Sony happened. Remember the MILC market 2-3 years ago? It was all about M4/3. And there was no ‘affordable’ MILC cameras at the time.
So, what we have with the Nikon CX is an alternative to M4/3. And it’s performance is really good as it’s able to match the M4/3 cameras when low-light is not an issue. And 372 ISO is a big improvement over what the best small sensor P&S like S90 can do.
I think this is a smart move by Nikon, because they probably will be entrenched in DSLRs for a long time to come. They’re not Sony, so their mirrorless system had to be a ‘companion’ camera rather than the bread winner.
David
8 months ago |Honestly, the Nikons aren’t bad cameras for what they are intended to do. But they are seriously overpriced, and somebody buying one could also buy a NEX, so the comparison is fair.
Hurl
8 months ago |You’re right. Nikons are great but in this case clearly overpriced. Something about 600€ would have been more logical (to me). Sensors are improving so fast, that in the future, probably, we could see high enough IQ in those small sensors and it won’t be necessary to buy FF or APS-C to get a low noise picture.
pancanikonpus
8 months ago |Human always like to have comparison. I am okay on this comparison to clear my curiousity on the some cameras although Nikon1 is targeted on new segment from nex/m43.
acolyte
8 months ago |Yes, problem is, how big is this market segment?
Before the gap would fill in what m4/3 and NEX gives.
Now that there’s m4/3 and NEX, the gap this is filling is not much.
If they think they’re filling in a market gap, they’re too late by years.
It is a different market segment, which is narrowed down due to the existence of MILCs. And they obviously are trying to take the market from MILCs, alas at the wrong time.
Steve Jones
8 months ago |Wholly predictable – when it comes to image quality at higher ISOs it’s the surface area of the sensor which is the overriding factor (for a given technology level).
The Nikon J1 is simply not aimed as a DSLR alternative where, arguably, the NEX is. The Nikon is far more firmly aimed at the P&P upgraders with more emphasis on video (hence power zooms). There might be a market for existing Nikon DSLR owners as a secondary camera, but I suspect they may have misjudged the attraction of that option.
Probably the biggest mistake that Nikon have made is the pricing – if this is more of a P&P upgrader product, it’s simply way overpriced. I think they are counting on the name.
relax
8 months ago |Agreed.
About prices, perhaps these are the high end flagship products with high build quality and materials. With more reasonably priced models to follow.
But who knows, timing is bad for both Nikon and Pentax. NEX is a huge success. Also, the world is in a recession. The ones that can afford expensive toys will spend their money on quality investment (e.g. Leica). I’m not surprised that Canon is sitting this one out.
KaKtusSs
8 months ago |It’s not being defensive to wonder why Nikon released this product but to add to the discussion, here are a few samples to compare “high” iso performance.
All these shots are 1600ISO (kind of a good compromise nowadays) :
Nikon v1:
http://goo.gl/XHIz5
Olympus EP-3:
http://goo.gl/lhEsG
Panasonic G3:
http://goo.gl/l3V31
Sony NEX-5:
http://goo.gl/Rva2Y
Sony NEX-5N:
http://goo.gl/lDYKH
Nikon D7000:
http://goo.gl/2hiJ3
Sony A77
http://goo.gl/DNbXE
The first thing to mention is that these pictures were all shot in JPG, which means that the JPG engine is nearly as important as the sensor quality. A real sensor comparison would be to process RAW files with the same settings in Adobe Camera RAW : pixel peepers dream
. The RAW files are all available on focus-numerique.com.
What I see here is that speaking of pure image quality, the nikon v1 is not a smart move. Its just too expensive to justify anything. It has 10mpx and does worse than all the competitors. Two years ago, it would have been a great camera but the last MFT have showed great improvement (nearly as good as the 1st NEX-5).
Then, let’s talk about responsiveness. Is the Nikon really faster than lightning ?
http://goo.gl/5XG6f
Uh, no…
Next, the 2.7X crop factor makes it hard to separate the subjet from its background and makes all these ultra cheap fast sharp legacy 35 or 50mm lenses nearly useless for most of the time.
Ergonomics and size : There’s no grip and not much controls either. DSRL users won’t be interested. It is a bit smaller than a NEX, but it’s not more pocketable.
Lenses : Nothing really exciting. They’re a little more compact than the MFT and NEX models, but nothing super impressive compared to the sensor size. It’s not possible to switch to manual focus
but their hybrid AF system looks great actually. Certainly the biggest [+] of the system.
Video : Very decent results but no better than the others.
So, Nikon : Why ? I just don’t understand to release that now.
Personnaly, I would prefer a cheap APS-C sensor with a fixed, retractable zoom lens, than a tiny 2.7X sensor with interchangeable lenses.
David
8 months ago |I just got back from Peru, and there were a ton of tourists with mirrorless camera.. a lot of Panasonics and NEX’s in particular.
And the vast majority of them still using it in full auto mode with the kit lens. That’s who the Nikon targets. They don’t want complication of a DSLR, but they want something better than a P&S compact.
It’s arguably a different type of person to the NEX buyer, but when the price point is similar somebody who was looking at a Nikon can also compare to the NEX.
David
8 months ago |The thing is that the average person who upgrades from a P&S doesn’t really know anything about sensor size or the effect of that. They probably don’t really understand the concept of a sensor anyway, let alone pixel densities, high ISO etc
The largest drawback for me is the inherently massive DOF with the little sensor. The image quality itself is acceptable for most people, but not being able to have bokeh really sucks.
acolyte
8 months ago |But they do understand the feeling (not concept) of ergonomics.
At the same time, they do understand the concept of brand.
So they level off. It’s a tie.
Billy bob
8 months ago |While you’re calling people trolls, and talking about Sony being the best, I was out making money with my Nikon d300s. I did it the same way I did my Sony a100 & a700, I provide amazing work regardless of sensor, iso capabilities, or stupid irrelevant tech talk. What did you do today with your Nikon/Canon killer of a camera?
acolyte
8 months ago |Lessee… I have a full time job so I had to hold off taking pictures until the sun starts to set~
frosti7
8 months ago |NEX prime lens petition! please sign if interested,
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?NEX30mm
Please state in comments the specs of your dream prime lens (as long as its compact and affordable)