One more foveon like Sony patent!
The three layer design from Sony
And here it is the next back-illuminated and three color layer Sony sensor patent! You can read the full (and very technical) description at freepatentsonline (Click here). It is not the first time we see such a “foveon like” patent. Sigma is currently the only manufactures that produces cameras based on that concept Like the new Sigma DP2s and SD15.
Here is the original patent description:
“In recent years, in the CCD image sensor or the CMOS image sensor, since the size of a pixel decreases and the number of photons incident on a unit pixel decreases, sensitivity deteriorates and thus a decrease in S/N occurs. In widely used pixel arrangement where red, green, and blue pixels are arranged on a planar surface, for example, the Bayer arrangement using the primary color filters, green and blue light does not penetrate a color filter in red pixels and is not used in photoelectric conversion. Therefore, sensitivity may decrease. Moreover, when a color signal is formed by executing an interpolation process between pixels, a problem of a false color may arise.
In order to solve these problems, Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication No. 2007-12796 discloses a solid-state imaging device in which green, blue, and red photoelectric conversion units are laminated in a depth direction of the same pixel. In the solid-state imaging device, a blue photodiode (photoelectric conversion unit) and a red photodiode (photoelectric conversion unit) are formed in the depth direction in a silicon substrate. In addition, the solid-state imaging device includes an organic photoelectric conversion unit in which a green organic photoelectric conversion layer interposed between electrodes is formed on the upper layer of the front surface of the silicon substrate on the side of a light incident side with a wiring layer interposed therebetween. According to the configuration disclosed in Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication No. 2007-12796, since a light loss does not occur in the above-mentioned color filter, the sensitivity is improved. Moreover, since the interpolation process is not performed between pixels, a false color does not occur.”
The patent description is very long and complicated and I would appreciate if you could help me to find some interesting details. Thanks!
P.S.: I don’t expect the A77 or NEX-7 cameras to feature such a sensor. But in my opinion “Foveon-like” sensors are the future!
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Comment from Don Cox: I think when he typed DP1 he meant SD1, ...- Comment from sonyalpharumors | Home: [...] on a “foveon-like” sen...
Comment from Froo: What? The five year old, pitiful DP1, al...
Comment from b shaw: @Dulaney,
Not a patent examiner, but ...
Emopunk
2 years ago |Wow still 0 comments at this time! I guess Sony users got a bit scared of believing in fairy tales!
Altough I have to say that the news concerning an eventual foveon sensors are the most interesting ones if they turn into something concrete..
GB
2 years ago |Interesting, A FF Sensor using that technology will be a killer
Sergei
2 years ago |May be the new sensor to be produced at their recently announced new manufacturing plant. Should be a wonderful thing on a future full frame model with all this extra sensitivity:)
Emopunk
2 years ago |Hope they’re not going to sell it to Nikonz
mafiosito
2 years ago |I think the only way to accomplish ISO in hundreds of thousands is through multiplication of light gathering data through multiple sensors. The a77 is having a redesigned sensor I dont think it impossible to think this principle/patent can potentialy be *The* sensor. Just hoping that it is the breakthrough replacement I’ve been waiting for all these years …
Edgars
2 years ago |Weakness of such a Foveon type sensor is reduced dynamic range. Didn’t read much into patent application to understand if Sony somehow solve this problem. I think today it is necessary to even more increase DR, rather than resolution. But in future Foveon could become sensor standard.
Carl
2 years ago |I have the feeling that Foveon’s limitations are as much an issue of execution as anything else. When the company was independent they wasted their venture capital on a whole range of ill conceived ideas, and now Sigma own them I can’t imagine they have the highest R&D budget around.
Sony have one of the highest research budgets for their CMOS division, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they could make the technology work.
Ezio
2 years ago |is DR limited by the Bits? or by some other physical factor?
Sky_walker
2 years ago |By number of photons reaching each light-sensitive layer.
b shaw
2 years ago |@Edgars
I’m encouraged because the original Japanese Unexamined Patent Application was back in ’07. IFF they continued to work the development since then, they may be ready to ‘productize’ the technology. However, as you probably know, some companies just publish a patent as a defensive move; they don’t intend to develop the technology, they just want to preclude their competitor for patenting the technology.
In this case, I have seen enough 2 and 3-well variations in various Sony patents that I believe they are serious about this. Some of those patents even include manufacturing techniques to develop these structures.
Another item to note, in some of their related patents they mention that the elimination of the color filters increases the amount light on the photo-diode part of the sensor. This may partially help to offset the light loss from semi-transparent mirror of the SLTs
When they do ‘productize’ this technology, I expect the first releases will be P&S cameras because of the small sensor size. Semiconductor manufacture yield is always higher for a smaller die size. After they continue to refine the IC production and reduce the defects, they’ll increase the sensor size. Depending upon the original yield, moving from a small P&S size sensor to a APS sensor could take a while – from months to even years if there are a lot of issues to overcome.
On the other hand, perhaps they are retaining the tradition of introducing innovation in the Alpha line through the 7 series. Perhaps, they have developed the IC production enough to release an APS sized 3-well sensor. If they have … well … that would be very impressive indeed.
Dulaney Ward
2 years ago |Thanks for posting about this, which is very interesting. I am aware that you have a background with patents, as a patent examiner if I remember correctly. I had noticed too the age of the original unexamined Japanese patent application, and thought that perhaps this patent might be for a mature product. And I noticed that this patent includes techniques for manufacturing the device.
It would indeed be impressive if this product is mature enough to introduce in the A77. When you said that “perhaps they are retaining the tradition of introducing innovation in the Alpha line through the 7 series,” my first reaction was that might have been true with Minolta, but Sony? What innovations did Sony introduce with the A700? The answer is the first Alpha CMOS sensor. The same year, 2007, that they introduced the A700 with that CMOS sensor, they began applying for patents for this new sensor technology.
Introducing this technology into the Alpha line would indeed be a big and far-reaching change, replete with potential complications. Maybe that is what has taken them so long to introduce the A700 successor. Remember that Toru Katsumoto said in December of 2009, in talking about the A700 successor, that sometimes it takes longer than expected to develop a device for a camera; this might just be that device. Or perhaps we’ll see it in the next generation. In any case, it looks like exciting times are ahead.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Yep, I very much agree, though there’s one point: A55. It’s kinda like combo-breaker. A55 introduced one of most amazing tech in digital SLR photography in 21st Century yet… it wasn’t the 700 series. I guess reason for that were some problems with A77 development and loosing market to Canikon (due to lack of any good competitive product), so they decided to rush the release, but still…
In 3rd quarter of this year it’ll be 4 years since release of A700. Nikon got 2 prosumer cameras in this period and in this year we gonna see 3rd one. Canon got 3… well, the 5D was long on market during the A700 release, but then they released MKII, and 7D. And we are about to see the 5D MKIII some time soon. Sony? Rumors, mockups, rumors, trade show 1, trade show 2, trade show 3… no wonder ppl get frustrated, especially due to flood of entry-level cameras when even I sometimes get lost in all these numbers. IMO it’d be far better for Sony to release A600 with pentaprism as a mid-stop if they realized the 77 development gonna take sooooo long.
b shaw
2 years ago |@Dulaney,
Not a patent examiner, but worked in microelectronics a few decades ago. You may be thinking of Dave (davethehiker @ AMW) who worked at the PTO. In my case, just out of college, I worked at a R&D lab developing microelectronics. We regularly reviewed patents as part of our work. The biggest lesson I learned from that experience: There is noting new under the sun.
Regarding tradition, I was referring to Minolta, but I hope Sony would continue it – we will see.
B.
Panfruit
2 years ago |I’m looking forward to see how the Sigma DP1 works. That sounds promising.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Indeed. DP1 can be one of most interesting cameras to come. Groundbreaking for Sigma camera division – it has enough pixels for these days, and a great potential of superb color-accuracy. If the price won’t kill it than it might be really great thing!
Froo
2 years ago |What? The five year old, pitiful DP1, already replaced by the DP2 since long? What is this, a blast from the past? Are you thinking of DP1x and DP2s, by any chance? They have the same underperforming sensor and slow lenses of their predecessors and way too high price. A NEX is the superior choice.
Don Cox
2 years ago |I think when he typed DP1 he meant SD1, the forthcoming high end Sigma SLR.
Sigma model names are confusing.
sgts
2 years ago |er………..doesnt the foveon have GREATER dynamic range ? ( and a green layer for mucho increased sharpness)
Rapha
2 years ago |In my opinion, the most interesting thing here is the combination of silicon and organic photodetectors:
“In addition, the solid-state imaging device includes an organic photoelectric conversion unit in which a green organic photoelectric conversion layer interposed between electrodes is formed on the upper layer of the front surface of the silicon substrate”
That’s what differentiates it a lot from the Foveon approach.
RB
2 years ago |I take one in FF. Where can I place my order?
EE
2 years ago |An intelligent way for Sony to further differentiate itself from Canon and Nikon (Canon doesn’t even have an EVIL on the drawing board, haha).
Interesting to speculate; how far away from market?
<3 years?
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2 years ago |[...] on a “foveon-like” sensor. Every week we find new patents explaining the technology (Click here to read one patent example). The question now is: when are we going to see the first foveon camera from Sony? We just got an [...]