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Sony may sell more high end cameras if it has at least two (maybe three) models available – and some will or could have OVF or EVF, depending on which is most advantageous (real or perceived) in each model. If I was shooting a lot of video, then the current system in the A99 is ideal. An event camera (with lower megapixels, and higher iso required) that emphasizes stills may be best if fitted with and OVF. A landscape stills camera should have higher megapixels (54 meg, if Bayer sensor is used, and less if a Foveon-like sensor employed), then an OVF (with a boffo MLU) is great! I really feel that an all-in-one flagship model can’t deliver all the features adequately, and that diversification is important. The bean counters will disagree, as they want only have one rationale (cost or profit per segment), and don’t understand the business. A good analogy might be automobiles – there are small ones for better economy and space use, and trucks for carrying things, and suv’s, etc. Each segment also has low to high end cost models. Selling one kind of car in each segment will only mean that there will be lower total sales, or no sales if the company doesn’t stimulate the imagination of the consumer and get their attention. Sony has not got the attention of the vast majority of the public, even though they have worthy products in many segments. I suggest they need to grab headlines by simply producing “best” products – and stop pissing away their advantage by only offering their “best” sensors to other manufacturers (D800/E, and now potentially a high end square sensor to Hassie).

Makes me wonder… Where Sony went so wrong…

*looks over at the marketing department*

It’s a great camera. I have one. Unlike A99, it doesn’t look sleek. It’s ugly actually. Ugly yet awesome like the bulldog.

^_^

Working for Sony is simple.
Maximum profits, minimal customer satisfaction.

I also have it, still use it and have absolutely no intention to go for the a99. The whole camera is just soooo great…

dont talk about art..something you phito ppl do not understand. jus stick to your light photcopiers you call a camera. next thing you know youll think youre monet painting with your camera.lol… delusional.

Rumours websites tend to draw in neophytes most of all, so there’s going to be a bit of that. That said, I still happily use manual focus lenses from yesteryear. A good lens will survive the test of time.

A common cry on this website is for new and improved cameras and lens. I take a more patient position. For example, a couple months ago I shot portraits of a group of 60 drama students. When I looked at the results of the a700 (I just like the a700s handling) and a CZ 85mm I thought to myself I don’t need anything newer. I am so impressed with that lens. It makes any alpha camera body I put on it shine. I used to be quite opinioned about equipment but I have been willing to try some of Sony’s new products. As a result I am very much impressed with the EVF and focus peaking. I think there are a lot of people who need to try these features themselves and they will see that they are not gimmicks. These features are here to stay.

I then decided to explore into the mirrorless segment. I brought a used (like new for a very good price) Nex7 and a Sigma 30mm. I shot a play with it last night and got results that are as good as any other combination I have used in the past at that focal length. The colors of the pictures looked really good and the white balance only needed slight adjustment. It changed my thinking about new tech. I invite others to welcome change while enjoying the old stuff. I think I will enjoy it as much as I enjoy my a77 but I don’t think I will never get rid of my a700.

I believe that’s Sony decision. I know Sony. I never said that anyone could not use this gear and not be able to make a living. Perceptions is 90% image.
Sony does not consider The a99 a pro cam. The only thing that mifis me about Sony then why did they build it. If your not going to bring a truly pro cam then why build it. Would I buy a A99. Yes. I tried the cam and loved the amount of extra detail I could pull from the image. I have a A77 and very happy with it. It does not mean that it’s not without faults.

And ovf dslr is better than a dslr without one…who knew? I geuss canikon was right again and you guys were alllll wrong again.

IMHO most of the Sony CZ lens are weather sealed to a point, it’s just that they don’t market it so that ppl will not abuse it. Some ppl basically just “soak” their water proof lens in water and claimed its damage and ask for warranty.
It’s good for consumer.. If they market it as water proof, then what will happen? The already expensive CZ will get even more expensive.

They’re camera business is profitable. Even if SONY failed, and no willing partner was found to assist, and the Japanese government abandoned them, then camera division could still be spun off into a profitable enterprise.

I Love my A580 and purchased it second-hand rather than A77 with its EVF. I am very happy with this indeed and in fact it has 3 focus modes. Perhaps Sony are looking at moving this technology on?

Personally I was really put off the A77 EVF when I tried it out because it couldn’t cope with a high contrast view in the shop of 50% of the image looking into bright daylight outside the shop and the other 50% in the relatively artificially and dimly lit interior. I immediately went “Yuck!” and put it down. I do see the benefits of the EVF though, and I would buy one if I thought the image in the viewfinder was good enough… Personally I very rarely use the rear screen to compose/focus and I always prefer using the viewfinder.

However, my dream camera (Are you listening Sony?) would have the not-bettered OVF of the A900 and a switchable EVF overlay or alternative view which could be brought into play (in the viewfnder!) a bit like a Heads-Up Display in a cockpit. Now that would really be my dream camera and would blow away Canikon as well as satisfy just about every Sony/Minolta User looking to upgrade. Do I want my Cake and eat it? Absolutely!!!

Over to you Sony…

yeah!, and beta…

If the SLT mirror was used for forming the image for the OVF, wouldn’t your view in the OVF be really dim, by comparison, to SLR designs without a pellicle mirror? Or can optics be added that brighten the view of a dim image?

+1

Amen

+1

That’s what I think they should do too! (see my other comment on this same thread!)

I don’t mind paying extra either. As long as whatever they do works and works very well to the point of invisibility to the user.

I’ve said stuff like this before, but NEVER did I think there’d be a thread on SONY Alpha Rumors that would give me such hope, such optimism! So… Please allow me to repeat myself.

Not only would I love to see SONY (or Hasselblad) bring out a 30+ Megapixel Square format Full frame camera, but I’d also like for this camera to bring back the optical viewfinder as an option for the A-Mount.

Yup. That’s right. An option.

Think about it. If they can develop Phase Detect AF sensors on the CMOS sensor itself, why not give us a big pentaprism, a super bright optical viewfinder, and the option to “lock up” the mirror and put an accessory EVF on the hot shoe (like the RX1 EVF). Then, in EVF mode (or Live View mode) the camera could autofocus using a combination of Phase Detection AF on the sensor and Contrast Detection AF, but we wouldn’t have to be without the optical viewfinder!

And while they’re at it. I’d also LOVE it if this square format 30x30mm sensor employed both physical black masks that would slide into view during Optical Viewfinder operation to allow for vertical or horizontal rectangular aspect ratio compositions, as well as black borders via software that would mask off the EVF should one choose to shoot rectangular aspect ratio images using the EVF.

If SONY or Hasselblad released something like this, I really think that this camera would actually get people switching from Nikon and Canon to SONY!

But more importantly. It would keep me, a long-time Minolta shooter (and other like me), shooting professionally with the A-Mount. I’m in love with my three Zeiss A-Mount lenses, as well as my many Minolta AF lenses. And I’m not the kind of shooter who would be ok with using an EVF all of the time, but I do see value in having the option to attach one to the hot shoe of my camera. Cause for certain situations, the EVF is GREAT!

However, what many non-professionals could never know, is that with SONY moving their DSLR line of cameras to to Electronic Viewfinder SLT cameras, they’re leaving their long-time professional Minolta customers behind. If you’ve ever worked as a professional photographer shooting weddings and events every weekend, you know that looking through a bright 6500K Electronic Viewfinder is a terrible way to work in a dimly lit 2800K reception hall. The eye strain from peering into the bright Viewfinder and then lowering the camera and walking around the dim room can be very taxing on the eyes. And the few times that I have shot weddings with EVF equipped cameras, I’ve accidentally walked on top of a few kids and tripped a few old ladies on the dance floor as a result!

But more importantly… If you’re firing off-camera flash to light the room, via radio transmitters, or if you’re bouncing a Metz or Sunpak handle grip flash, you encounter additional problems because the Viewfinder doesn’t know that your flash is going to go off when the picture gets taken. So… You end up having a VERY dark (underexposed) scene to look at through the Viewfinder. The only real way to combat this is to shoot in Manual Exposure Mode and dial in a very long shutter speed like 1/2 of a second or longer to be able to see the room around you through the viewfinder. But the problem with doing that is that with such a long shutter speed, you’ll end up with too much orange, streaky, ambient light in the exposure after the flash(es) fire. Or worse yet, if the room is lit with fluorescent lighting, you’d have way too much yellowish/green light spilling into your photo.

I, for one, need an Optical Viewfinder in order to continue making a living with my A-Mount lenses. I was a Minolta shooter for several years, and I’m now on my third SONY alpha body (the shutters do actually die at some point after 100,000 actuations!).

If neither SONY nor Hasselblad announce (or leak a patent and/or credible rumor) for an upcoming Optical Viewfinder DSLR for 2014, my only option will be to start stockpiling a900 and a850 bodies from ebay and KEH.com… and that’s something that I’ll happily do, even though I’d prefer to be giving my money to SONY and supporting their hard work in developing technologies like on-sensor phase detect AF points!

I hope something like this gets brought to market before the shutters of my A900/A850 (and all the A900/A850′s on eBay and KEH.com) cease to work.

So there. I’ve said it. And I hope SONY and Hasselblad are listening. PLEASE BRING TO MARKET AN OVF CAMERA (with an EVF accessory hot shoe option!) It would be much appreciated.

Excellent John. A choice between two paths. Mass consumer model, or elitist RX1. I wonder which would serve us better. I really really don’t know.

But for now, I am pleased to use the a900/700 series and old Minos. Not much in the stills world to be lacking with that.

I am sure you believe that the A99 has ISO usable up to 6400, but it really depends on many factors in my experience. People said the NEX 5N had ISO usable up to 3200, but in practice, if I am shooting a person from about 6 – 10′ with a 35 FF equivalent (the Zeiss 24) then I lose critical detail in eyelashes at ISO 3200. In fact, I start to lose critical detail above ISO 800 (sometimes 1600 was okay; but 3200 lost it). The RX1 did work up to ISO 6400, particularly for B&W. I appreciate folks claiming DxO scores are wrong or that the A99 in the real world is going to be hardly distinguishable from the RX1, for example . . . I may give the A99 a shot. I just hate to buy something and then have to return it when it doesn’t live up to expectations. I am trying to do my homework ahead of time. Even if just 15 – 20% of my shots are in my house, that’s significant. And some of my best shots from the RX1, for example, were spontaneous around the house of my kids. I don’t have time to set up a tripod (and that’s not going to help with moving subjects anyway) or to attach a flash. I am sure the A99 will beat my NEX 5N and Zeiss 24 lens (e.g., with the upcoming Sigma 35/1.4). I have no doubt. But that’s a pretty hefty jump in price for the difference ($2,800 + $900 = $3,700 VS $600 + $1000 = $1,600) for what is potentially not $2,100 worth of improvement. I might be better off waiting a generation on FF.

Yes, a mirror-less, full size body with A-mount would be so great.
Sony should build an A77 without the semitransparent mirror and a WALN-Modul (and an App to control the complete camera (no zoom) via Smartphone/Tablet).

If Sony could modernize their OVF design and incorporate new EVF features such as live histogram, exposure warning, live histogram n intelligent preview w/face recognition to zoom in check focus on Eyes etc…

The manufacture of viewfinder can be outsourced to Olympus while Sony owns the overall design.

With Mirror lock up, Higher fps and video is possible.

I dont mind paying a few hundred bucks more if this can be implemented!

big yes, but dim outside and sucks a lot of power down too. EVF’s have as many problems as they do good points. that’s why many want to see OVF’s around too. Yes I have an SLT camera but I have OVF ones too.

Sony’s SLT products are NOT cheaper than rivals. The A99 was a slap in the face to EU buyers being “more expensive” than traditional rivals. So much for cost savings. Users want OVF models I’d be all over an A700 MkII

I have an A580 which has very unusually has 3 focus modes. I bought this camera second-hand because I wanted an OVF and I couldn’t afford an A900. My ideal camera (are you listening Sony?) would be one that had the fantastic and never-bettered OVF of the A900, but with the ability to OVERLAY and SWITCH-IN (Much like a cockpit Heads-Up Display) an EVF view. Do I want to have my cake and eat it? Absolutely!!!

Whilst I appreciate the benefits of an EVF, I tried out the A77 and the EVF view really put me right off. What I didn’t like was that it couldn’t cope with high-contrast lighting and made me say “Yuck!” (e.g. Looking through the EVF at a view which was 50% outside bright sunlight and 50% much duller light in the shop, the A77 just couldn’t handle this.) I don’t imagine that the A99 is any better in this regard. The battery drain is another issue too. I have lost count of the number of times I have tried to look through a Sony SLT in a shop only to find that the battery has been drained and there is NO view, at which point I just say “Useless!” and put the camera down.

Now, a camera with an OVF as good as the A900 AND the ability to switch on/off an overlayed EVF view for those times I want it, now that would REALLY BE SOMETHING!!! I think such a camera would blow CaNikon out of the water and would of course have massive upgrade appeal to existing Sony/Minolta users!!!!

I can always dream… But meantime I remain content with my excellent A580.

The most logical design at this point would be to move all PDAF to main sensor. That’s easier than one may think it is – just increase the horizontal pixel density x2 and then make the adjacent pixels ‘facing’ one – more to left, the other – more to right. That’s cheap and doable.
Then that SLT mirror may all be used to provide the OVF feed.

So an eyepiece shutter must be added, but the separate PDAF sensor with all its supporting mechanics and the costly power-sucking EVF may go for good.

The result would be the cheapest FF DSLR/SLT design ever.

It’s a great camera

An ff body with an articulating screen, stabilisation on all glass… If you like the evf, that’s also a big plus.

I’ve heard that Nikon have prototyped an F7. As to whether or not they’ll actually release it, though…

I know. I just wanted to tell my thoughts about why Sony wont make an OVF camera. Or film camera… ;O)

Come on, Sony will not make OVF cameras any more. Just like all other brands didn’t make film cameras when a group of people were melanchonic about the begone film days.

I walked into a tree once. Lol ultra wide angle lenses.

You mean a Canon label, right? The cognoscenti buy Nikons/Sonys/Pentaxs, everyone else buys a Canon because everyone else buys one too. Critical mass is a peculiar thing.

Shhh don’t talk about the positives of EVF, we all know that there aren’t any…

Some people don’t like change.

Despite the misleading headline that’s a very positive report. In summary:

Sony have made a profit before tax.

They have reduced their losses by 75% over the previous three quarters.

Sales are up 6%.

They are expected to return to profit from April.

Looks to me like the turnaround is happening.

Assuming you have VR lenses, and you should, what does Sony have that Nikon lacks?

LOL

You make a lot of good points, but I wonder how much SONY really needs to focus on elegant design and the pure photography experience rather than competing with a firm eye on the mass market.

> I long for elegant design. I fear it’s been lost to the Maxxum, Contax RTS, Leica R8, Oly OM generation.

The Contax RTS is finished. The Leica SLRs are a marginal product compared against modern digial MF, and the Oly OM, being the Leica of SLR’s is also finished. If anything SONY ought to avoid this strategy.

That said, I would argue that the RX1 is carving a niche and captures something of the magic of those other famous cameras.

There’s only a couple of stops between most of the full frame cameras within a generation, at least in RAW, so if a shot is impossible with one camera, at best it’s going to be borderline with another. Why not just use a tripod or flash?

If Sony bought out Minolta, don’t you think they also have the access to all their designs and patents? Sony are the one manufacturing the A900 and dun you think they know how to build and obtain the materials for OVF? I rather they spend time to develop better EVF rather than remaking OVF. After all, your image came from the sensor and EVF has direct representation of the captured image, it doesn’t matter how great the image looks in the OVF.

that was a non-Sony rendering.

There are also a lot of other people who appreciate the enhanced AF (lacking in the A850/A900- accurate but SLOW, especially in low light, useless for tracking), appreciate the clearly superior low-light performance, and as you mentioned above, appreciate these major improvements coupled with the new advantages of the EVF. I won’t use the video features much as a stills shooter but I think its silly and wrong to think additional features affect the camera negatively. And no, I don’t give a slight about 1/2 stop light-loss because in practical real-world use it makes no difference. That should be evident considering I’ve been shooting the A850 for 2 years now (50% of my work is low-light events, iso1600 and above) and completely satisfied with the noise performance many snobs consider “unusable”

Kevin you seem to define professional equipment by price-tag. This couldn’t be any further from the truth. I make a living with my images and work with many other pros in the field shooting with less gear than me (currently A850, A99 in the mail)- make no mistakes- these are pro bodies, and more importantly the lenses that are mounted are made to professional standards.

It’s easier to pursue the art when the artist isn’t worried about the tools they choose falling into a state of rapidly depreciating chaos. How long has the flash system been a totally confusing incompatible shambles? And the answer is a new microphone designed by Fred Flintstone. Artists need tools they can count on to be relatively consistent over long periods of time.

The A850 is still the only FF DSLR to bust the 2K barrier at its initial MSRP, or street price. There are probably many reasons why it didn’t take off as well as you’d think it might. Lack of live view in 2009, no pro support, no established reputation with DSLR shooters like the big two, all come to mind. But there are many more reasons too, and one biggie – the lack of advertising budget to properly put it out there.

C

That brings me to a burning question…when Sony pulled a low-ish priced high resolution FF camera in the form of the a850, why didn’t that take off? How come the D600 and 6D draw so much attention now?

The D600 in many ways seems like a modernized a850. How did Nikon manage to take off by doing a similar thing several years later, when Sony apparently didn’t get far with that concept?

The A600 ovf rumor I received might have some weight afterall. I doubt it, but this is interesting Andrea. Guess we’ll see what happpens. Appreciate the link to the article, fwiw.

-C

Many camera components such as focal plane shutters are supposed to be shared by most of the big camera makers. I wonder why SONY couldn’t contract OVF mirror and prism development to Cosina or even buy from Nikon. SONY already have the ancillary components like the AF array, metering devices. Video and fulltime PDAF is a strong point of SLT, but it’s clear that lot’s of people like the traditional appraoch as well.

Problem is that Sony has NEVER designed a FF OVF camera before. I’m a bit timid as to the grab bag they’ll come up with. Keep in mind that the a900/850 were Minolta designs purchased from the buyout. Minolta just didn’t have anything left to continue.

Now look, don’t be asking me for source link to this assertion. It should be obvious to all, as all the initial cameras have battery compartments turned 90 degree from the grip, retain VG design, have all Mino legacy features, like all the Mino digitals before the buyout.

Sony just didn’t purchase Mino current production. They got the future plans for 7 and 9 series too.

If they do go OVF again… They best give some warm cookies to The Mind of Minolta and tempt her back into the game. I’d love to see what the 9 series Mino would look like for 2013. I’ve very little confidence in Sony design team to take this on their own.

Come on, Sony!!!! Get the OVF back !!!!

Funny timing for this article – I just received an 850 today as a 2nd body to my 900. Such great cameras….

The fact it’s a 9 series means that it’s intended for professional market. Nothing else need be said. That would be like thinking EOS 1 series isn’t professional just because no one said it was.

If Sony would bring back the OVF with an A9xx body I would switch to Sony. I had planned on selling my Canon 5D original and going to Sony/CZ, but then Sony got lost and confused and started with SLT. I lost interest.

yeah I agree with Simon, that Sony could make a OVF/EVF camera technically and than you would have the best of both worlds.

What about a camera that could do both OVF and EVF?

I would love to see a pro FF with a price tag at $3999 and slap 1D X and D4 in the face. XD.

At this point I’m happy with my A77 and waiting for a Mirrorless full size body A-mount Sony.

Even IF I was to move from Sony to Canon or Nikon someday, I’ll always keep my loved a850.

It makes more sense for Sony to keep the production of DSLR (OVF) camera until the EVF technology is fully matured!
I would give 1 more year for Sony to make a flagship DSLR something like D4x but use 3x16M multi-layer sensor with a useable ISO at 6400!

Couldn’t they have just put in the parts from the A99 in to the old 850/900 body and limit the video out with firmware to create an updated model? They have so many intermediate models, so why couldn’t there be just one more for the old die hards to OVF?

EVF has its advantages and disadvantages. I still believe the EVF has more advantages over the OVF, especially in price…

You can have an EVF with or without the SLT system. SLT was there simply for PDAF.

If Sony perfects the on Sensor PDAF, there is little reason to keep the SLT.
I can see a FF Mirrorless SLR-Form camera in the near future.

We will see a split here, where people would still like to see the OVF and people like me who wants to keep seeing improvements in the EVF.

I truely believe that the next professional camera should have a bloody big screen on the back jam packed with pixels.

I also heard Sony are making CRT TVs again, because people liked them more than LCDs.

Sony never said the A99 was a pro cam. I believe Sony would love to Bring too the masses a truly pro slr, but who is willing to pay 10 grand for it. If you look at Sony Video, there truly Pro or Broadcast gear starts at 10 grand and goes up. The ex video cam is not a pro cam. It’s near pro quality, beause you can get a 1/2″ chip, but is not considered by Sony to be true broadcast cam.
I’m sure Sony would love have the idea of a broadcast like slr cam. where only true pro buy.

Wow, OVF? Really? Maybe Sony’s figuring the SLT/EVF approach didn’t go over as well as they thought it would in the pro market and wants to try another true DSLR. But at this point, would it make a difference? Will anyone who’s already left Sony jump ship back to them for an OVF model now?

If they go this route, it seems like a tacit admission that they were wrong. I for one like the EVFs and think they’re the future, but I can’t say I’d mind if there were OVF offerings, too. The a850 is a workhorse; I’d love to see another camera like it.

I love my A850. It was, and still is, a great camera.