Sony A77 image quality post!
Let’s focus on the A77 image quality But before we do that we should consider a few limitations:
1) Most image samples on the web have been taken in non professional conditions. Most journalists or photographer didn’t even know how to use the camera when they got their hands on the A77 also because they had only a few minutes time to play with it!
2) Some features like AF fine tuning and Lens correction still do not work on the pre production A77
3) Camera and firmware are not finalized!
4) Professional RAW support is missing
5) Most of the pictures weren’t taken with top quality lenses. A 24 megapixel sensors needs the best lenses to deliver the best results!
That said let’s take a look at all Image samples.
RAW images
RAW and JPG full size images are available at Imaging Resource.
You can find them at Quesabesde (scroll down a bit until you find the “RAW” mark under the thumbnails).
A77 vs A35 RAW comparison at Dpreview forum.
A Mac Only BETA Raw Processing for A77 Dpreview forum.
For Windows, RAW support at: Visualbakery.com.
JPEG images
A77 Vs K-5 Head-to-Head High ISO Measurbation at RiceHigh.
Full size images at High ISO are available at Fotomagazin (Click here).
Full size images and ISO test at Imaging Resource
Full size images at Dpreview.
Full size images at Videoacademy.
Sony Alpha A77 SLT Sample Photos at ePhotozine.
Full size image at Naver (scroll down to the very bottom of the site).
Full size images at Popphoto.
Image samples and ISO comparison at Dyxum.
And now the BIG question to you (Please keep in your mind the limitations I mentioned on top of this post)
Loading ...P.S.: Those are all preorder links. preorder now to get them first!
Sony A77 with 16-50mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A77 body only at Amazon (Click here), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A65 with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony A65 body only at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-7 body only at Amazon (Click here), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-7 with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), BHphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-5N with 18-55mm lens at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only), Jessops UK (Click here) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony NEX-5N at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 E-mount at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony 50mm f/1.8 at BHphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
Sony 55-210mm E-mount at Amazon (Click here), Bhphoto (notification only) and Sonystore (Click here).
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Mike
9 months ago |Measurbation? Never heard of that and actually reminds me of something else..
admin
9 months ago |Measurebation referrs to pixel peeping
Anyway, I changed the title to avoid mistakes.
Sky_walker
9 months ago |lol
Milos Janata
9 months ago |Admin has a good day
hehe
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |sperm out! s.o.s
BMan
9 months ago |Although the FW is not yet final, I think that Sony are right now scrambling to get a better NR algorithm.
But let’s face it.
Noise is higher even in RAW (than for example Canon 7D, Nikon D7000).
And that is a fact that I do not believe has a firmware component in it.
Megapixels or SNR. You can’t have both, sadly …
I would rather have a usable 12Mpix camera than an unusable 24Mpix.
It’s as easy as that.
Update: And to conclude, I’m keeping my A500, A700 and A850 without even thinking of upgrading my A-mount line. I’d jump ship if I didn’t have all those Minolta G primes and a couple Sony G/ZA zooms.
P.S: And a ? button on a semipro camera? Are SONY decision makers on drugs, or what? For the people who need a ? button, you should make a Sony A7 with Auto, Auto+ and some 12 scene modes on the mode dial and be off with it.
Cheers!
/rant off
Hellven
9 months ago |try to downsise the 24mpx to the equivalent 12mpx, you can even try with the pre-production jpegs out there, and tell me if it’s not usable.
BMan
9 months ago |Sure, and why not just release a 12Mp sensor with the same tech and gain a massive ISO boost?
I always curse my A850/700 when I resort to ISO 1600 and 3200 in not-to-bright conditions. The noise then is a major PITA. If I could “upgrade” my A700 so that ISO 3200 and perhaps 6400 would be such as current ISO 800 and 1600 I would be in heaven. I don’t need anything else. Ok, you can throw in all the features and the whole shabang, but what I NEED is ISO 3200 that I can rely on even in dark conditions. I know the A55 and A580 offer this, but owning an A500, I know that a 5-series is insufficient for my work needs.
Alpha Mark
9 months ago |No offence here but you should switch to Canon or Nikon, knowing now Sony’s strength is not in ISO quality.
BMan
9 months ago |I have too much glass to make the switch easily. No idea, what it would cost me, but I own about ~10.000 EUR of A-mount high quality glass.
Also when there is plenty of light, nothing beats my CZ/G lenses and the A850
Sky_walker
9 months ago |Well, there isn’t much a chance Sony would try to make good high-ISO camera, not as long as they play with SLT. This design eliminates possibility of Sony getting world’s best high-ISOs camera.
And besides that – Sony tries to make competition for Canon which also under-performs in ISO, even more than Sony actually, despite of SLT noise gain. So you could always end up worse!
dk
9 months ago |No offense, but learn to post process dude. If you think ISO1600 from A850 is unusable, the problem is you, not the camera.
BMan
9 months ago |None taken!
Also, you should know that noise manifests itself differently in different lighting conditions.
For example, just 2 days ago, I happily used 1600 in an indoor event (mainly to prevent blur from moving people). No problems with noise there, since the scene was nicely lit.
However!
Some time ago I covered an event that was occurring in underground Karst caves, where there was VERY little light. Now, the images at ISO1600 look pretty decent, if they are bellow 1Mpix. If I go bigger it is either a blotchy mess or it’s nicely noisy. And the client wants to print A3 prints. Ooopsies. I said tough luck, the conditions didn’t really allow for better quality, but in the end they were satisfied with the blotchy noise free version.
I can provide RAW samples once I get to my work computer, and you will see for yourself.
Sky_walker
9 months ago |“but in the end they were satisfied with the blotchy noise free version.” – yea… this always surprises me: why people prefer images with no noise and no details over pictures with little noise and shitton of details? (that’s unrelated to shooting with almost-no-light)
Carl
9 months ago |Probably for the same reason popular music has all the singing pumped through Auto-Tune.
dk
9 months ago |@BMan: Agree with that, it’s actually more on how much light that hits the sensor at any particular shot. The trick is to have decent exposure for all high ISO shots; underexposed shots will be very difficult to work with.
Not saying that I’m pro or anything but I’ve lived through with my A200 all these years, shooting at ISO1600/3200 countless times, I know a thing or two about noise processing. I’d love to have a shot at your A850 ISO1600 RAW.
BMan
9 months ago |Here are the samples.
They’re ISO3200, as the few ISO1600 I have are not for show
http://do.science.si/iso3200.zip
The “problem” is the same with ISO1600 – detail loss and loads of luminance noise.
dk
9 months ago |BMan: Here you go http://accessdesires.com/DSC01152.jpg
Of the 4 you sent, 1 is shake-blur, 1 is off-focus and 1 is at ISO200 so I picked the obvious left. Not sure about your expectation but that was perfectly acceptable to me.
Carl
9 months ago |Yeah, that does seem fine to me. It’s not helped by the fact that most of the shot consists of dark clothing and straight darkness, though.
If you had added a well diffused flash to bring up the shadows a bit, the camera would have handled it better.
BMan
9 months ago |@dk: Thanks for the effort, but I actually failed here, the ISO200 shot is the wrong one – should be 1112, not 1012
) It shows some problem areas in the shadows though
Actually, I intended to present 4 examples:
1112 – loads of noise, detail problems
1152 – example to show that high ISO is ok if there is sufficient light, the area that is lit by the light has incredible detail for ISO3200 imho – 24Mp FF at it’s best!
1160 – this one is in focus (the green laser beam was what I manually focused to
1171 – a bit shaken but no noise problems, due to sufficient light!
I’ll upload the 1112 file as well tomorrow morning, and if you can give it a go, I’ll be very happy
@Carl: Flash was a failure there most of time, since there was a slight mist in the air, and flash just caused completely blown pictures all the time, since most of the flash always bounced off the mist. I tried with flash and a portable softbox at the start, but I gave up after three shots …
dk
9 months ago |@BMan: Alright, I’m waiting for your 1112.
I have some experience processing RAWs from some Canon (450D) and some Nikon (D80, D300) and they all share the same noise characteristic as my A200: Extreme loss of detail in underexposed areas of hi ISO shots. I believe all cameras have this issue, and keeping that in mind will help you lots when you shoot at high sensitivity. Give the dark places their intended exposure, failing to do and try to push up during RAW conversion, you’ll experience some terrible loss of detail. In fact I usually prefer to blow the highlight with limited DR at high ISO to keep noise in check at darker areas.
Dr. Tom
9 months ago |+1
Milos Janata
9 months ago |+1 @Carl @Sky_Walker
Steve Jones
9 months ago |So many misunderstandings about the effect of photosensor size on DR and noise. Using per-pixel measures between sensors of radically different resolution sensors is wholly misleading – they have to be normalised.
For a guy who does know what he’s talking about, read these (there’s a series of posts).
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=32064270
Basically, when it comes down to the theory (and practice), for comparable technology the dominant factor is the sensor size, which is just another way of saying (for equivalent FoV and f-stop) the total amount of light that falls on the sensor. There are numerous papers about this around.
ajphotoimages
9 months ago |Totally agree. No point in switching if the ISO issue isn’t being addressed or taken seriously.
alphafan2011
9 months ago |I think its not the solution to put 24 MP on a sensor and then reduce to 12 MP? Well it doesn’t only have to be the 12 MP, for all those who want to have more, why not leave at 16 MP (like the D7000 with a Sony sensor!) or maybe go up to 18 MP like the Canon 7D, but to put 33% more pixels than the 18 MP on the sensor is killing every low light situation. Its ok, but then for full frame please.
Also the bigger resolution fills the buffer much faster, that as a result you have that nice 12 fps thing, but only for little bit longer than one second, impossible to shoot for example 8 fps with smaller resolution of for example 16 MP but for 4-5 seconds!
And to be honest, of course a bigger resolution is nice, but 99% of the time its not needed, much more important is a good sharpness and as much details as possible with nearly no noise!
And if I look at the pics of the A77 there is not that much noise – thats nice, BUT there are also not so much details, its like nearly all small details with not that much contrast like black letters on white paper are smeared away with the Sony-typical NR!
And that’s definately a NO-GO.
Hopefully Sony will do something in a new firmware, but in my opinion it can’t be changed that much, that everything looks better.
And to say, that only the most expensive super fixed focal lengths lenses can improve the quality is not the solution. Because not everyone who buys a NEX7 or a A65 has the money to spend another 2000 Euro for 2 lenses which could work on the A77.
Not to mention that the new 16-50 SSM lens IS a good lens and most of the pics where already taken with that lens! Think about it …
Beer_Stalker
9 months ago |>Noise is higher even in RAW (than for example Canon 7D, Nikon D7000)
Totally untrue. I’ve looked at the 6400 RAWs from IR and you cannot tell the difference between the A77 & 7D.
>Megapixels or SNR. You can’t have both, sadly
Sure you can: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/More-pixels-offset-noise!
Joel
9 months ago |As a D7000 owner, I’m sitting back and laughing my little ass off right about now.
You guys honestly thought you’d be able to pack in a closer pixel pitch AND have 3 stops better sensitivity and noise control than then 16mp sensor?
LOLs on you now!
SRL
9 months ago |I understand BMan,
I have A-Mount lenses going back to 1985 and about $8,000 USD invested in Zeiss and G lenses…
But to be truthful, today, who would you jump to?
Both, Nikon and Canon’s full-frames are the same generation as Sony’s a900. You have an a850 now…would you really spend $2,600 today to buy what is basically a four year-old Canon 5 or a Nikon D700?
Nikon’s D3’s are nice but would you really spend that and it’s basically the same generation as the a850.
And I’m sure you would agree that the Zeiss and several of the G series lenses are the equal of what you would get from Nikon or Canon and cheaper!
Although some weather sealing would be nice
No, we need to wait and see what Canon replaces its 5 with and Nikon does with its D700 D3 replacements before we panic
PhotoNut
9 months ago |“ISO in the hundreds of thousands!”
I remember hearing that here and I just didn’t believe it.
To me, the things that make this A77 a disappointment are:
1. Single card slot (contrary to “confirmed” rumors here of two slots). Come one, the original A700 and the D7000 both had/have 2 slots. Why would Sony cripple the camera this way? Why? Given the huge 24Mp RAW files and 12fps shooting mode, it would make the most sense that there were dual slots and that the camera could write to both of them simultaneously. But no!
2. Below average high-iso performance. Just like the original A700 launch. Doesn’t Sony learn anything from previous mistakes. Combined with the rumors here of “ISO in the hundreds of thousands” something must not be right. Either those original rumors were malicious deception or something must have gone wrong in this A77 camera to produce such poor and noisy high iso pictures.
3. Removal of the unique direct access LCD UI. Come on, this UI seperated Sony from all the other DSLRs makers and it was highly regarded. Why would Sony get rid of it?
4. No metering control switch. Why did they have to remove this functionality from the Camera when it is so useful to quickly switch between center weighted/spot and matrix metering based on current shooting conditions without having to go through the menus. How many cents did Sony save by getting rid of the physical switch? Why?
5. Small buffer given large image sizes. Does not make any sense. It is like on one hand you offer 12fps and 24Mp for action shots then you scrimp with small buffer (no CF and single card writing) so that the user can’t take full advantage of it. You get to advertise it but the users can’t actually use it well. Why?
All in All, it is an improvement over the A55 but I’m no longer going to say that Sony “knocked it out of the park” as I originally first thought.
Steve R.
9 months ago |+1 on the rant. What are the folks in the Camera division of Sony smoking??? I hope the feedback from these preproduction models they’ve had for quite some time has led to real improvements in the final model and firmware.
This is an opportunity for Sony to truly differentiate themselves from Canon and Nikon.
RDoe
9 months ago |I agree completely, but statement:
5) Most of the pictures weren’t taken with top quality lenses. A 24 megapixel sensors needs the best lenses to deliver the best results!
Is a bit odd. I guess all photos were taken with the 16-50 lense, that is not a top quality lens then? I guess it is and it should be. Maybe not CZ territory, but good enough for 24mpx.
march
9 months ago |OH, NO …. mean no $$ no quality ! sound like A77 must together with CZ 24-70..
Carl
9 months ago |All I can say is we’ve come a long way if those images qualify as “terrible” technically.
Might be fun to run a head to head between it and a Canon D30 for a laugh.
sonyboy68
9 months ago |Andrea I am agree with you for points you mentioned.
The Sony Alpha A77 is a fabulous camera ever made.
This test prove it
http://www.fotomagazin.de/test_technik/testbilder/detail.php?objectID=5412.htm
cibo
9 months ago |my 2c:
- you can already compare the raw output (see dpreview link). Official raw support will be better in terms of colors, but not in terms of noise.
- in the past when new camers have been released I haven’t seen a big improvement between preproduction samples and samples with the final firmware
- the raws show a bit, but still clearly more noise than the raws of the A55
- I am disappointed because i expected at least the same level as the A55 has. But it is not.
- Why did Sony make a sensor that is worse than the previous in terms of noise? Every new sensor should be at least a little bit better as the previous
- Sony should have done 18 MP and half a stop better noise performance.
- I haven’t seen a qunatitive measurment of dr so far. That is the next interesting point…
Eric
9 months ago |I’m honestly not blown away myself. I can’t say the images are bad, but I would have preferred they stayed around 16mp and focus on ISO and DR. I’m most likely still going to get a NEX-7, but instead of pre-ordering it I’m going to wait till November to see if Oly/Panny have anything comparable in the works. That said, looks fine up to ISO1600, and 3200 is usable. All cameras have limitations, we just have to work around them.
David
9 months ago |@cibo
You can’t check the raw files PROPERLY, since no software OFFICIALLY supports them yet.
Maybe they can open the file and do some processing, but without the official support, it’s meaningless!
Choice of raw software makes a HUGE difference to the image quality. Just compare Lightroom to the terrible Sony Image Data Converter.. a huge difference.
Wait for lightroom support first!
Bazis007
9 months ago |What features will be avalible in firmware upgrades?
march
9 months ago |good key point !
Jennzhen
9 months ago |What firmware upgrade? It’s not even on sale yet.
Maveric19
9 months ago |I love how we have so many people jumping of the bandwagon. Wait to test the camera yourself before passing judgement. Maybe it will safe all the “experts” we have here from breaking their ankles as they jump off. It is true that Sony needs to have better noise reduction but to read some of the comments here it sounds as if the camera is a complete failure. Far from.
Terryfried
9 months ago |The worst of A77 IQ is when you push intricate red patterns. WHAT a surprise! This is a 24MB APS-C and photos are mostly F8/F11. Diffraction is affecting the red end and journalists think it necessary to use small aperture to use high ISO. In real world people will use F5.6 or bigger knock down the iso and see fine detail beyond any other APS-C. If you need DOF of F11 etc then you’re probably doing Landscape so where is your tripod and longer expose. I know people take different types of photo with different needs but what I am getting at is photographers will use real world technics that will give much better results than some of these artificial tests that where set up (deliberately or not)to see the worst of the camera rather than what it can do.
BMan
9 months ago |Good point!
I just checked, and the red channel should start to show diffraction at F/4 and should be plainly visible by F/5.6 and deterioration should be obvious at F/8 and beyond!
So, basically we need lenses that will be tack sharp at F/4 for this camera …
Sky_walker
9 months ago |Still though it’s really funny when people judge the camera from f/16 photos using average kit lens (16-50 f/2.8 isn’t outstanding glass sadly) and cry about lack of sharpness and details… lol. Even if they are well known with quite a bit of knowledge – they still do the error….
SRL
9 months ago |Yes, I would like to see the test using CZ 135/f1.8 at about f1.8 to f5.6
This is what I use on my a850 for nighttime handheld street work.
I would love better ISO that my a850 delivers
Maybe the a99 or whatever it is will get the job done.
Steve Jones
9 months ago |Even if the lens can’t resolve down to the pixel level, there is still a considerable advantage in higher resolutions as the bayer-pattern is actually a 2 x 2 array. The missing colour information for each pixel has to be interpolated. The higher sampling frequency allows for better rendition, even if the lens can’t resolve down to the Nyquist level, whether due to inherent shortcomings or the effects of diffraction (and diffraction has a gradual impact – it doesn’t approach like a cliff edge, but as a gently steepening slope).
Andy
9 months ago |I’m sorry guys, but looking at the photos in original size I can only say: eh.. what? They look awful. They look like blown up photos from a point and shoot.
Kalpurush :)
9 months ago |Really???
roman
9 months ago |Unfortunatelly yes. JPEG engine smears the details and creates watercolor effect. At pixel level at least.
But RAW samples shows that A700 at ISO 1600 (my max in AutoISO) has the similar noise as A77 somwehere between ISO 3200 and ISO 6400. For me this progress is good enough. And A77 as photographic tool is beast.
Frosti7
9 months ago |As a potential sony customer, i feel that sony makes fun of me,
Trying to sell a higher spec-but lower quality camera to the pro market.
The A77 sensor is inferior to the NEX-5N, no matter if you downsize to 16mpx, or upsize the 16 to 24mpx, the 16mpx sensor is on par at 100-1600 ISO, but beyond its worse!
I’d take the 16mpx ANYDAY!
Sahaja
9 months ago |If Sony manage to achieve something like the noise level of their current 24mp full frame sensor in a 24mp APS-C sensor – which has only about half the area – that will be a great technical achievement.
An APS-C camera with a 24mp sensor is going to need very good lenses and very good technique to reveal the full potential of the sensor.
Seriously, how many (if any) of Sony’s current APS-C lenses have the kind of resolution required to do this?
Cyrus
9 months ago |“Seriously, how many (if any) of Sony’s current APS-C lenses have the kind of resolution required to do this?”
If this is case… Sony should know it.
Then… Why the hell they are comming with a 24mpx then ?
Just to tell “we did it” ?
acolyte
9 months ago |The American dream. “where no man has ever gone before” :p
Alpha Mark
9 months ago |Admin, some thing out of topic, Sony Hong Kong has announced they’ll begin sale the A77 on 22, August which much earlier than Japan!!! I am pre-ordering mine on 6th Aug which come with free 8Gb SD card and STP-GB1AM hand strap.
Mike
9 months ago |So you do have a time machine?
Jennzhen
9 months ago |Wow, congrats for being the first owner of A77!
So how’s the camera after you’ve used it for 4 days?
Alpha Mark
9 months ago |lol, I meant September.
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |Even though we are talking non final firmware, yesterday I compared both the IR RAW files from the A77 and the NEX-5N (which I believe may also be non final) and I would say there isn’t any clear advantage on the 24MP when it comes to image sharpness, contrast or texture detail, if anything the 16MP shows less noise. I’m talking same RAW converter and 16MP upsampled to 24MP to compare directly. Meanwhile I can also say that neither sensor is any better than the one on the Panasonic GH2 apart from noise and probably DR.
dac38
9 months ago |“Meanwhile I can also say that neither sensor is any better than the one on the Panasonic GH2 apart from noise and probably DR”
What else remains on a sensor to be better at ? Truly an ignorant comment.
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |Ever heard of Resolution? Be my guest and educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution
dac38
9 months ago |24 MP not enough resolution for you ? Or are you rather complaining how at 24 MP the pixel size is smaller than GH2 ? Is that it ? I am sure then you’ll be happy with a 6 mp full frame camera.
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |It’s funny how you quickly jumped at me calling me an ignorant, but you keep failing in reading a simple message: the 24MP doesn’t deliver contrast, texture detail or resolution over the 16MP on the NEX-5N… or the GH2 for that matter…
But forget about it, I’m starting to guess that what’s probably itching you is that I mentioned the GH2 as an equal when resolution is concerned. I’m sorry but I don’t have a remedy for that.
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |But keep burrying your head in the sand while every other visitor in this site comes to the conclusion that the sensor on the NES-5N is better in almost every way than the 24MP.
David
9 months ago |Oh really?
What officially supported raw converter software did you use?
Or were you just opening the files in unsupported software which *might* work?
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |For checking detail/texture preservation and resolution in a Bayer sensor camera I don’t need an officialy suported RAW converter, RawTherapee with AMaZE demosaicing will do as I don’t need to give a shot about color profiles to check for detail.
David
9 months ago |Yes, you do.
Why not be patient and wait for proper raw support, rather than beta testing unsupported software.
Pablo
9 months ago |It seems like I will not upgrade to the NEX7 but rather to NEX5, so I get full HD and ISO 100 eitherway… But as a bonus, save cash and get a better high ISO performance !:>>
123
9 months ago |the problem is that the sensor overheats
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |serre
9 months ago |you seem happy with a77 so far. worth the countdown..
brad
9 months ago |Has nobody looked at the images from the German website? The quality was unbelievable.
http://www.fotomagazin.de/test_technik/testbilder/detail.php?objectID=5412.htm
I had trouble with the file, but was able to see pics after skipping errors.
Peter
9 months ago |If this is close to what it really will be, then I’ll have to get an A77 as soon as possible! ISO12800 still fairly well – ISO 50 – 200 a dream…
Jiri
9 months ago |This would be more than sufficient for me. I hope that NEX-7 is equally good.
cibo
9 months ago |I was not able to open the downloades file from fotomagazin. It only shows my some “OSX…” file, which I could not open. I would be very much interested, because they wrote the samples have been made with firmware 1.0.
questions:
- are these samples really with fw 1.0?
- how can I open the file?
Sky_walker
9 months ago |Firmware 1.0 might still not be the production version one. If memory serves me well – the production version of A55 got firmware v1.10.
Wait till you see the camera in shop and for tests of cameras you actually might buy. Not the cameras press got from Sony to play with.
roman
9 months ago |ZIP contains 9 JPEG files with samples from ISO 50 to ISO 12800. Mayby slightly better than other samples but nothing amazing – too much noise reduction.
Windows have integrated function for unzipping.
Osang
9 months ago |At ISO 1,600 and 3,200: NEX-5N is more sharper than A77?
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX5N/NEX5NA.HTM
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA77/AA77A.HTM
NEX-5N already beats the M43. I think I’ll go for the 5N and it is much cheaper.
Duarte Bruno
9 months ago |Second that!
IMHO the NEX-5N delivers more detail, sharpness and texture preservation than the A77.
Milos Janata
9 months ago |Like I said before 24mpx will suffer badly.
Plus that Sony Jpeg engine I am allergic to makes those pictures look terrible.
Could be a great a camera for me with 16mpx sensor -> Where is A56??
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |So miss DXO benchmark on Orange77, 5N and orange7 when comes?
Sergei
9 months ago |I somehow really NOT excited. Sony did not deliver the hyped:
Iso in the hundreds of thousands
Fast write speeds with pro card slots
Battery with 1000 actuations per charge.
Instead gave us 24mp om aps-c while clearly disregarding the request for super High Iso with lower MP count. Now those files chocke their 12 frames per second burst mode – not continuous mode as they make us believe. We have to deal with huge raws in post because Jpegs suck. And ask a premium for the product that can’t deliver what it is designed for – excellent image quality. Sony you listen with your, pardon my French, ass
roman
9 months ago |Nobody have tried the fastest SDXC cards yet. Imaging Resource tested card with 30MB/s and with 45MB/s write speeds and clearing buffer took in the first case 27s and 15s in the second one. So probably with faster card (someone mentioned Delkin card) it will be even better.
ageha
9 months ago |SDXC cards aren’t faster, their new file system is actually slower, they only offer more space.
Futile
9 months ago |he’s refering to the UHS-1 cards which can only be gotten on SDXC or SDHC cards
David
9 months ago |None of those were hyped.. they were rumors on this site. Speculation. Maybe some were true at the time. Maybe they were never true.
The fact is that Sony announced this camera two days ago and you can’t buy it for another 6 weeks. So why not grow up, be an adult and be patient. Wait for a production model. Wait for RAW file support. Wait until you can try one for yourself.
Condemning a camera 2 days after it is announced is ridiculous.
emarsh72
9 months ago |If you go to the imaging resource ‘comparomemter’ and compare the nikon d7000, with the sony a77, iso 3200, the a77 does just as well and in some areas better than the nikon d7000. Use your eyeballs and look at the manequins green collar, her hair, as well as her buttons on her jacket. The a77 has more detail and is sharper even with a pre-production camera. I don’t know what in the world everybody is so upset about, people act as if the nikon is head and shoulder above the a77 in image quality, it is not. In fact I can see that it is a pretty even race, even though the a77 is not finalized yet. Read the start of the article here, it says this is a non-finalized camera and firmware. Yet at imaging resource the a77 is doing quite well already, using the comparometer. Look at the manequin and still life comparisons, and take a deep breath. http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM iso 3200 d7000/a77
Terryfried
9 months ago |just re checked and have to say it seems a lot better than when i first looked wonder if they have updated. I just did comparison with that dredfull camera tha Canon 7D. surpising just how similar A77 16000 is to 7D 12800.
Sergei
9 months ago |I’ve bought a850 and learned to light my scenes well so the iso can be used to 4000, that’s ok. I wanted a body I could use with not so beautiful light in the nikon d700 performance level. I might as just get one and be over with it.
Clyde
9 months ago |Noise? There’s more noise on this thread than in any photo one will ever sell from an a77.
I own a 44″ iPF 8000, a 54″ hp 3800, 17″ iPF 5000, 13″ 9000 PRO, and a DOC 12 with Kodak MatchPrint RIP. I’ve got dozens of magazine covers to my credit and over 100 published fashion editorials. I’ve shot covers with 3mp cameras and sell sports photos all day long to happy customers using nothing more than a little old a200 at 1600 iso. I’ve sold numerous 40″x40″ canvas giclee images at art shows that were shot with 6mp 30D cameras. Not one client complaint about camera noise in 30 years of professional shooting.
You Pixel Peepers out there must surely have a lot more critical clients than I do. I hope you serve them well and keep them far away from me. Thats not the kind of clients I would suffer.
Can’t think of a single job that would not be well served by the newest Alphas. Can’t think of a single shot where a client would be dissappointed that it wasn’t captured on a noiseless Nikon. This noise debate is nothing more than another excuse to not pick up the phone and get a new client today… or even worse, another excuse to not get out and make some new photos.
You all have fun ruining your eyes squinting at test images that have nothing to do with being a photographer. I’ve got a date with the Koi at the Botannical Gardens. The morning light reflects quite nicely against their Alpha Cinnabar scales. A great excuse to dust off the trusty 70-200 Beercan with a high ISO film loaded in an old Maxxum.
Carl
9 months ago |B-but the beercan is a 70-210!
SRL
9 months ago |Carl,
That little lens (compared to anything made today) does a real decent job.
I sometime feel a bit embarrassed when I pull it out but after I explain that is a nice bright day and I’m getting too old to carry around a 70-200/f2.8 in my bag just in case I need it, then the young Canon guy agrees.
And it cost me maybe $200 USD back in 1986??
I think I purchased mine at a Montgomery Ward, department store
Clyde
9 months ago |Yep… I traded all my fat heavy f2.8 super duty zooms away years ago. Now my event coverage is nimbly achieved with nothing more than a pair of constant aperture f4 legacy Maxxum 70-210 and 24-50mm zooms at less than half the weight. Corporate and Model head shots get a dose of 35-70 vintage Maxxum glass… and I just shot an entire parts catalogue with that lightweight close focusing super sharp non flaring little jewel.
Sony would do well to reintroduce the vintage Maxxum f4 constant aperture dynamic trio. Not many assignments are beyond them. Canon has seen great success from their 70-200 constant aperture f4-L zoom.
With a proper set of fast aperture primes, those little zooms can really save my old bones. Add the tiny f20AM flash and thereinlies a powerful event machine with the f4 Classic Maxxums.
Carl
9 months ago |I guess my attempt at humour got lost in transit. You really don’t need to explain the virtues of the beercan generation zooms to me, own one of them and am considering buying another.
Clyde
9 months ago |Oh no Carl I got it and appreciate your comment/correction… in humor. Perhaps my eagerness to rant overcame my ability to laugh. All good and thanks for the smiles!
André S
9 months ago |Totally agree. Looks like it is all about the iso and noise with this camera. Like all other great features like the great AF options don’t matter no more. And to my comparison the iso seems same or even a bit better at 24mp than the Canon Eos 7d at 18mp.
Jakob Røjel
9 months ago |Missing the like button
LMN
9 months ago |fotomagazin samples are really outstanding for my liking, Im sold, this is a great machine, the noise is nice for this huge sensor
Osang
9 months ago |At ISO 12,800, comparing A77 to NEX-5N:
The quality of A77 degrades. The NEX-5N is more sharper. Is it the lens?
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
loverhd
9 months ago |The thread is about image quality of A77, based on the currently available data.
The IQ of A77 is poor. Around one and a half stop behind NEX-5N. This is bad.
Good is that NEX-5N eventually becomes a indisputable image quality leader. It beats Canon 5D MkII and all the other cameras in up to the 2000 usd price tag.
See the comparison at EOSHD:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3802/which-is-best-for-low-light-sony-nex-5n-or-nex-7-and-a77
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3784/nex-5n-demolishes-ep-3-at-high-isos-even-beats-5d-mk-ii-nikon-d7000
Clyde
9 months ago |That tester just lost my respect by automatically grouping the a77 with NEX-7 simply on the virtue of them having the assumed same sensor. The NEX-7 is reported to have a different sensor than a77. Not only does the NEX-7 not have to pass light through a translucent mirror, but the photo receptors on the NEX-7 are purported curved on the sides to allow for better sharpness with short throw legacy lenses.
And I must ask, when was the last time that anyone made a print large enough to tell the differences in any of these cameras when a print is hanging on a wall, appearing in a magazine, sitting in a family photo album, or flicker web rez snapshots.
The quality we need to produce fine photos was achieved over fifty years ago. Everything else is personal preference.
Sergei Zhukov
9 months ago |So why are they still pushing this megapixel envelope?
Matt
9 months ago |Because there are obsessive customers (like half of this comments section) who would rather sit at their computer and view their images at 100% looking for flaws than actually make good photos. The only person who is ever going to blow a photo up to 100% to look at noise is you, the photographer.
Clyde
9 months ago |True that Matt. I’d wager most (key term “most”) people commenting about noise issues on this thread have never even printed one of their own photos beyond 16×24 to begin to see the differences.
To them, the medium has become the message… the camera has become the photographer… and they can only be as good a photographer as the camera they can afford. Suddenly their identity as a photographer becomes Sony’s responsibility/fault for not producing a camera that’s cheaper and better than anything the world has ever seen.
How many megapixels and noise reduction did Dorothea Lange have in 1936 when she photographed the heart wrenching portrait of Florence Owens Thompson? Did Alfred Eisenstaedt concern himself with 12fps or translucent mirror technology? Does Eddie Adams regret not having a tilting LCD? Perhaps the world would have changed for the better if only the Tiananmen Square photos had been captured with a C-MOS digital rather than high grain film.
Wouter
9 months ago |100% agree. Pearls for the swines.
Matt
9 months ago |Hi All,
Interesting observation @ http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
I am comparing A580 (my current camera) v A77.
If you look on the left hand side full size comparison the back of the chair the A77 looks better than A580 THEN look at the book and the A580 you can read the words more clearly than A77, THEN look at the label on the wine bottle and the A77 looks better than A580.
I am confused!?
Knurd
9 months ago |Yeah, it’s very odd. Even the comparison between the D5100
(http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/Sony-A77,1_7902)
seems to show Sony’s attempt in matching Nikons chroma NR, which looks nice, but the details are unbalanced. For example, the a77 has a lot of detail in the flowers but everything else (text and small patterns) have no detail. The D5100 is the opposite.
sleekdraft
9 months ago |actually i am pre-ordering the a77 to replace my a300, yes it’s time. almost bought the a580 but i think it’s worth the wait. BUT–looks to me that the image quality does not perform well against canon’s 60d or nikon d7000. looks also that it is just in par with with my NEX-5.
what I didn’t like is the a77′s aggressive noise reduction that it makes the image loose a lot of detail. i prefer a little bit of noise than images blurred or softened by noise reduction. here’s my test case from imaging resource:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/AA77/AA77A.HTM
look at the ISO performance at 1600 of the a77 and other competitors, canon 60d / nikon d700 / pentax 645D (man that image quality is sick! amazing detail for pentax even on high ISO’s), the a77 looks too soft at 100% crop that it loose a of that texture detail.
It may be the new 16-50mm lens? if so, those images of the building looks just like it was shot with my Sigma 28-105mm f/2.8. At 100% crop, comparing to the a900 (the winner no doubt), it is not that sharp. so if you’re talking about using a great lens, maybe you are right. But it looks that the new 16-50mm f2.8 lens is just as good as sony’s other kit lens. i also have a couple of minolta primes and zoom lenses and i just don’t see a huge difference with the new 16-50mm f2.8.
so i guess will be purchasing the body only. how about you guys who’s also ordering the a77, are you going to get the a77 with the kit lens or body only?
CRYO
9 months ago |Looked at many samples on web, seems the 24MP’s ISO performance actually on par with a55′s 16MP CMOS, that’s impressive for the extra pixel
While 5N’s new gen 16MP CMOS have improved so much better, keep clean and detailed at high ISO
Wheelus
9 months ago |I purchased the Zeiss 1680 three months ahead of time assuming the kit lens wouldn’t be perfect and to avoid sticker shock.
LMN
9 months ago |How can you base a decision in a set of non-production jpg samples from IR? Did you even tooke the time to see the samples from the 1.0 firmware???
sleekdraft
9 months ago |i really hope they improve the image quality in the final release man
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |Look at:
http://www.quesabesde.com/noticias/Sony-A77,1_7902
where they compare the A77 with Nikon 5100.
Firmware version 1 for the A77 and the new Sony lens, so not a bad one.
Can anyone zoom in on those and then explain why to buy the A77 please?
Clyde
9 months ago |I don’t need to zoom into anything to give reasons for buying an a77. Full predictive AF for video is reason enough. Large viewfinder and supreme LCD tilting are more reasons. Ability to check previews with the EVF (without carrying a separate loop) will be invaluable in the field. Panoramic mode… AEL toggle… On screen histogram… Peaking focus mode… How many reasons do we need?
If this is nothing more than a noisy megapixel race… then get a medium format.
Oh yeah… edit… I forgot 60p and 24p video mode. All good reasons.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |Then why not the A35? Ok you will say weather sealing, etc. But you are evading the picture quality issue.
That’s fine if you want that but not even looking makes it hardly serious.
May not sound like it now, but I am in many ways really a Sony fan, just very dissapointed with the ISO performance..
Jennzhen
9 months ago |And how do you jump from firmware 0.58 to 1 in just 2 days?
Explain that please!
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |How should I know? But I just looked at the EXIf info and that states v 1.00.
Jennzhen
9 months ago |And there’s no way to forge exif? The picture might not even be taken using A77.
Btw, some of us would at least hear something directly from the A77 testers if firmware 1.0 is out.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |Sure it’s easy to fake.
I know that almost anything can be faked but why should they? On serious testing sites.
BTW: the pictures in the zip file that are discussed at other places also have software v 1.00 in the EXIF info.
ageha
9 months ago |Who said they took the photos 2 days agao?
Dave
9 months ago |Why is it that SONY just cannot seem to get it right? They have the tech know how, but for some reason, want to try to dazzle everyone with techno BS. If they would make up their minds for once and for all whether they want to make a camera to take superior photographs, or superior video, it would be a great relief. The a580 could have been a REALLY great camera if they had made the body more robust, as in the a77, added a PC connector port as in the a77, and dropped the video. But no, they have to make a very “nice looking” camera with 24 MP that no one NEEDS, and make it video priority, which a lot of serious photographers could care less about. Then to top it all off, they use an EVF, which appears to be less than desirable on a bright day. I will NOT be buying an a77, as they have put out nothing in recent years that even remotely would make me want to put my MAXXUM 9 and 7D bodies in a display case for good. Sony has just sold a whole lot of PENTAX K5′s or NIKON D700′s I think. When SONY gets around to building their next versions of FF bodies, I again will NOT buy one with an EVF. I will keep scanning negatives. Message to SONY…When are you going to listen to PHOTOGRAPHERS, and stop pandering to a whole hoard of wild eyed techno geeks.Yeah I know, that’s where the money is, which makes it impossible for PHOTOGRAPHERS to take SONY seriously. I was a working PRO for 22 years, using MINOLTA gear, in case anyone is interested…IT appears that SONY sure isn’t!
Robby Ticknor
9 months ago |+1
dk
9 months ago |/yawn
Technology advances, move along.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |That’s all quite ok but not backwards in NR!
Twenty years ago 400 ASA was ok but now…
ageha
9 months ago |I think it’s hard to believe someone at Sony is still working on the firmware when the camera will be already on sale on the 2011/10/14.
ahhh-lpha100
9 months ago |+2
Knurd
9 months ago |Just admit the 24mp sensor is not their best one yet. the a55/33 didn’t get this much forgivness when first tests came out and nothing changed even after the firmware update. Seems like too many excuses as to why the image quality is low. I don’t believe any of them because it would not be a wise move by Sony for such a high profile camera. That said, the image quality is great up to 800 iso. How often does anyone shoot above that?
PhotoNut
9 months ago |Anyone who shoots pictures indoors (especially if shooting sports) probably needs to shot higher than 800 ISO frequently. Sometimes I’ve even had to shoot at ISO 3200 with my A700.
Knurd
9 months ago |True. I guess I was thinking about wildlife and landscape. I guess a camera with crop sensor and fast/accurate AF would seem like it’s tailored for sports. Definitely need the usable high ISO for that. Hopefully they fix it in a firmware update.
Cliff
9 months ago |Anybody know if an A77 will function with manual focus only if its mirror is removed? I think is mirror is killing it. 20% (or more) light lost because of that thing?
Also Sony’s facination with higher and higher pixel counts is just getting silly.
The camera needs a simple mirror flip up option for low light manual focus situations.
Hellven
9 months ago |it’s 1/3 of the light or 1/3 of a stop?
PhotoNut
9 months ago |It may take two further generations of this 24Mp APS-C CMOS sensor for Sony to work out the image quality/noise issues.
Folks buying the A77 are simply Guinea pigs for Sony sensor fabrication division.
Clyde
9 months ago |Do you have a single client that would complain about the noise of an a77 image?
Are there any jobs that you could not fulfill with an a77 image?
Do you have any clients that would benefit from a77 design improvements?
The way I see it, the a77 will allow me to pursue creative possibilities that could not otherwise be achieved with another system, thereby allowing me to get new clients, and to serve them extremely well with it. I predict 50% more efficiency in the field just by checking exposure with the EVF instead of having put a loop on the rear LCD screen.
Wheelus
9 months ago |Agreed. It appears that most of the people that make comments here spend way to much time looking at their images under magnifying glasses, loupes, and microscopes. If you are going to spend 90% of your time shooting at an ISO of8, 10, or 12 thousand, then there are many cameras to choose from. Does no one know how to use multiple flash units any more? Yes, I know that you can’t use flash in the caves in SW France, but how many of you could use flash if you weren’t so damn lazy?
Carl
9 months ago |Tripods are also a dying breed.
Sergei Zhukov
9 months ago |Sony and KM were the very reasons I learned to use white balance, strobe lights and go around a lot of corners to deliver beautifully lit and color balanced images. At the moment the only thing I’m limited with my set up of A850/A580 and sony’s Best Glass is the ISO.
I frequently have to go to iso 3200 and in some instances above that to mix my light with ambient and that’s using f1.6 – f2 apertures. It’s my only gripe. Hence my dissatisfaction with what I see at 6400 on a77. I NEED that setting to WORK!
Robby Ticknor
9 months ago |Somewhat unrelated…
Does anyone know what the fastest 64 gig a77 memory card currently available is?
I guess it would be a class 10 SDXC — but the speed of class 10 seems to vary wildly based on brand. What would you recommend?
quite frustrated the a77 only has one card slot… forces me to buy the biggest card i can find. I wonder if 128 gig memory cards come out, if the a77 will be able to use them.
Futile
9 months ago |Delkin and Panasonic do a 64GB SDXC UHS-1 card which will get you 90MB/s Read 45MB/s write.
The 32GB and 16GB version of the Delkin will get you 80MB/s WRITE (the fastest I believe), and the cost is proportional, so 2x 32GB will be about same price as 1x 64GB… You are better off buying multiple 16GB in my opinion. Spread the likelyhood of catastrophic loss.
Futile
9 months ago |on a 16GB card shooting RAW+JPEG you’ll get about 431 Shots (roughly the same as when you’re battery is getting low.
If I was using the A77, I’d buy multiple Batteries and multiple 16GB cards. Swap them out at the same time (even if they aren’t full).
But thats because I don’t see myself shooting ~500 shots in one go very often.
Swaping cards takes one second, not sure why it’d be a big concern for you.
Robby Ticknor
9 months ago |I guess you are right… i’m just going to have to get used to the idea of changing cards… grr…
in my a550, i have two 16 gig cards in the camera (good for 2400 raw images), and have NEVER removed the cards from the camera (transfer images off via usb to camera)
Since the cards are solid state, and very reliable nowadays, it feels like removing/changing cards is the most dangerous option… when a card is out of the camera, it’s vulnerable (can damage pins, squash/break cards, loose card, weather, etc)
Futile
9 months ago |thats a fair point. I download my cards via a reader all the time. But you’re probably safer doing it from the camera like you say. Although I’m pretty sure cards are quite robust. I’ve not had a problem with CF and SD for about 6-7 years. Only Microdrives have died on me, but thats going back a bit.
Cliff
9 months ago |Will the A77 function in manual focus-only mode if the mirror is removed?
Removing the mirror will allow 20% (or more) light hit the sensor. To me, that is pretty significant and prolly the biggest issue that the A77 has “against” it.
Second; Why is Sony so fascinated with smaller and smaller sensor photosites? I think they are becoming overconfident in their post processing engine.
It’s almost like they are saying “Pack those as many pixels as we can on that sensor, we’ll fix whatever problems that causes in post processing.”
Correlated double sampling and other noise reduction techniques are great but jeez,…you gotta start with the best image data you can get FIRST. (THEN process the crap out of it)
I’d like to see a surprise “A76″ model to be released. This model would be identical to the 77 but with the vastly superior NEX VG20/NEX 5N 16 megapixel sensor. (That appears to be Sony’s “star” sensor)
Cliff
Robby Ticknor
9 months ago |+1 on the a76!
Wheelus
9 months ago |As I said on a previous post, there are some reviews on B&H Photo on the new Sony cameras. On the A65 and at least one of the other new cameras on B&H Photo the reviewer says that they agreed to NOT publish any photographs because they had a pre-production camera. I would think that that would be a requirement of anyone who got a pre-production model. Be patient and wait for the REAL cameras to come out. Maybe they won’t hold up to an examination under a microscope but let’s wait and see. It’s like a bunch of vultures circling some dead meat out there.
sinclair
9 months ago |From my own in depth analysis of the available material the a77 really has an issue. Then I started comparing the NEX-C3 and NEX-5N to the a35 and a55. The results were as I expected that the a35 and a55 are suffering from their mirror showing more noise on high iso settings. It’s most likely that the difference between the NEX-5N and the a55/a35 represents the the difference between the NEX-7 and the a77. So as long as Sony doesn’t mess with the NEX-7 firmware the quality will definitly be a notch above the a77.
Their policy strictly enforces region specific products.
As for myself I’m currently looking for a camera with a slightly smaller body than my 5D MkII. Right now the 5N or C3 are among my favorites due to their lowlight performance but I’ll wait till the NEX-7 is available.
If I’d own an alpha series camera I’d probably skip the a77 and wait for the next (possibly a full frame) model in the alpha series.
From my POV the NEX-7 is more interesting than the a77.
Things I really don’t like are:
Region restriction when it comes to video modes. Even though living in a PAL region most my equipment uses 60hz refresh rates so if I shoot videos I’d like them to be at 30/60p instead of 25/50p. Sadly that sony typical
Why didn’t they simply include the same contrast focus in the a77 firmware allowing to manually flip up the mirror for a better low light performance?
Anyway I hope the NEX-7 will do a bit better. I’m willing to take a slight worse picture quality in low light if the IQ under normal condition is higher compared to the NEX-5N. Right now I don’t like the smoothing / nr in the a77 pictures (jpegs).
Wheelus
9 months ago |How much in depth analysis can you have done in two days from images from a pre-production camera? Your are talking BS here!
sinclair
9 months ago |Compare the raws. Unless a miracle happens I expect the amount of noise to be about the same with the final firmware as long as unprocessed raw is used. For the jpeg output it’s a whole different story. With some proper raw processing the picture quality could indeed improve, but the noise is there. Beside my observations were mostly based on the a35 and nex-c3 and projected on the a77 and nex-7. So in depth is not wrongly used.
Why are you even so offensive?
My statement, my opinion. Agree or disagree and state why but simply calling it BS is not really a helpful statement.
mwl
9 months ago |BS? There are a handful of sites comparing quality of the a77. How much more proof do you need? Even if it’s a pre-production camera, it’s everyone opinion now and we don’t know for sure if it’ll be corrected. Even so, for a pre-prod. cam these are sub-par results when comparing the higher iso’s.
Frank Withers
9 months ago |picture quality issue??? Are you out of your damn mind??? COME ON PEOPLE, are all pictures taken 10 years ago suddenly crap quality?! Here is my website, all material is shot with Canon 40D, Canon 5DmkII, Nikon D70, and Sony A900, please tell me which shot is done with which camera, once you do that THEN you can bitch about the image quality.
http://www.fkwstudio.com
In real world situations the A77 will do just fine. The A100 will do just fine. Can’t believe what I’m hearing. Its funny that the nonprofessionals are so much more critical about microscopic image nuances, which in all practicality, DO NOT MATTER
Wheelus
9 months ago |I don’t know Frank! I enlarged some of those photographs 100 times and saw some grain. They must have been taken with the Sony A900!
Jennzhen
9 months ago |100 times? You’ve just brought a new genre of pixel peeping.
mwl
9 months ago |That’s not the point here Frank. The point is that it’s been years since the first DSLRs came out and if a company is going to charge $1400 for a new body then it should be pretty damn good – not comparable to a 5 year old camera. While I used to like my old D70s, I LOVE my new a55 because I don’t have to think twice about certain things because of limitations (and the D70 had quite a few). Seems like the consensus is that people would rather have a perfected smaller sensor than a harddrive-devouring 24mp beast with mixed results. If that’s true, then I’m guessing cameras like the D90, D7000/a580 and D700 will become more valuable in the next couple of years.
Wheelus
9 months ago |Why am I so offensive crying BS? Because what we have here is a bunch of “experts” who have never touched the camera. Please give us your bio which qualifies you as an expert.
Sergei Zhukov
9 months ago |No offense taken. I use a850 and a580 for a living. know them inside out and have to resort to Raw to deliver superior photos and image quality. I will not pass judgement on a77 as a tool until it’s delivered fully baked to perfection. Do we have a deal?
sinclair
9 months ago |It depends on the situation. Flash is utterly useless if you want to capture a city night scene or street view in the evening with moving subjects.
Beside right now even at <400 ISO I'm missing some fine detail. For many of my shots the fine details are quite important and I don't want to miss those if possible even when using a smaller camera when I don't feel like carrying my main gear.
Peter
9 months ago |i have downloaded the raws from the website imaging-resource opened them in raw therapee – then i checked the jpeg comparison between the cameras – and the a77 raws looked much better !! the jpegs from a77 must have been set to strong noise reduction ! in can say that i have seen all the details in the red by iso 1600 as its shows by d3x by iso 1600. try it by yourself
sinclair
9 months ago |Did you also play around and load the raws from the 5N and a55 or a35 and compare those? You’ll notice slight less noise in the 5N images.
Cliff
9 months ago |I can’t help but think that Canon and NIKON are breathing a big sigh of relief today. Lol. So far, they nothing major to worry about.
As far as features, they can easily clone all the A77 bells and whistles. (It’s all software toys and gadgets…nothing dificult to add to their new models)
Peter
9 months ago |camera is only a toy – all depends on the person who shoots with the camera. canikon they can perhaps do a similiar camera, but this is made by SONY
and i personally will love it 
123
9 months ago |where is the a56?
emarsh72
9 months ago |sittin’ over there by the A76 smokin’ a stogey.
Frank Withers
9 months ago |Fine. If you wish to bitch about the quality at 100% on a screen, please do, but do let me know if this actually has any relevance in the field.
If you want to say the A77 has made no progress from cameras 5 years ago just because of some noise above iso 1600 (do you really shoot above iso 800? even indoors?)
bottomline… I guess I just disagree with a lot of expectations stated here… just sounds like bitching to me.
Good luck with your photography endeavors.
Kiril
9 months ago |I saw some v1.0 JPEGs from A77. Hate to disapoint the trolls but they look just as good as NEX-5 on 100% zoom.
http://img.photo-forum.net/review_images/a77/DSC00769.JPG
http://img.photo-forum.net/review_images/a77/DSC01290.JPG
Much ado about nothing
Cliff
9 months ago |I’m just saying…Sony’s best sensor today, (thought by many to be)the 16MP NEX VG20/NEX 5n sensor would probably be far more popular in the A77 body than that 23MP thing.
The NEX VG20 will crank up 25,600 ISO. And from the preliminary reviews it’s SUPER CLEAN!
The verdict is still out. When we get some serious side by side tests, then we can REALLY complain.
Does anybody “really” care about 23MP over 16mp anyway? (expecialy if it’s a “dirtier” sensor?)
“Sony A76″ with a flip up mirror = PERCECT camera! (I think it would sell better too)
Cliff
Kiril
9 months ago |Cliff silky iso 50 to me is more important then iso 25600. Actually I see not much reason to go beyond 6400 and even this is a bit of trickery rarely needed.
It seems A77 deliver silky iso 50 and stays such till iso 400, up to 3200 it is very good. I honestly see no reason to go any further.
The a77 images are astonishing. The camera is amazing. If you badly desire to find some fault let the lack of iso 25600 be it.
A4w
9 months ago |totally agree – the 50iso is lovely – and pretty close to the canon 5d 2.
I love what I have seen of the focusing system !
Cliff
9 months ago |I just want “clean” large pixels and high dynamic range. 25,000+ ISO is just a “side effect” of starting out with a really clean base image circuit.
If you can crank up that many db of circuit gain and still have a relatively clean image,…that strongly suggests you got a VERY clean 0db image to start with.
I don’t want more pixels, I want physically larger photosites.
Can we all agree that “larger photosites are better”? (given the same post processing)
CT
A4w
9 months ago |I guess you are going full frame, or medium format. Phase one do a lovely range of large photo site sensors.
Personally – as much as I would like a FF/MF – my wife would not take too kindly to it. I think, replacing my canon 40d and couple of 2.8 lenses will be more than enough camera for me.
A4w
9 months ago |I guess you are going full frame, or medium format. Phase one do a lovely range of large photo site sensors.
Personally – as much as I would like a FF/MF – my wife would not take too kindly to it. I think, replacing my canon 40d and couple of 2.8 lenses will be more than enough camera for me.
Maddmack
9 months ago |Cliff If this camera is not to your liking state your case. And move onhow sure can you be regarding the pictures you are seeing are you looking at them on a 250.00 monitor or a 5,000.00 monitor put the camera in your bag and shoot your in your comfort zone if you then don’t like what you see take the camera back somewhere out there there is a camera for you it all comes down to how much you have. I think you have just enuf information to be a pain in the assssssssssszzzzz!!!!!!
Cliff
9 months ago |lol,…awwe c’mon. I’m not THAT bad. I own exactly 6 Sony cameras today(video and still) I’m a huge Sony fan and I want to see this company dominate the industry. Sometimes it goes a bit off course and does strange things. (sometimes)
Overall, we are all just theorizing here and throwing ideas around. Don’t take it so seriously. We are on the same team!
This is what “camera geeks” do. These debates have been going on for 100 years and will continue long after you and I are gone.
I really wanted this to be the camera that kicked Canon in the nutts. So far, looks like they will keep their #1 title.
I hope the full frame model will NOT be a tiny photosite 40 megapixel beast.
Maybe Sony could bring in some engineers from it’s Pro Camcorder division to help the Alpha team. Guys that designed the F35 or F3. Sony is kicking AMAZING sensor butt on that video market.
Call me way off base and crazy when I say: “more pixels doesn’t mean better sensor”…Crazy right? Horrible statement!
Take it easy!
Cliff
Cliff
9 months ago |How ironic is it that the Sony NEX 5n/NEX VG20 16Mp sensor would be the REAL star of the show and knock off the Canon 5d II?
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3802/which-is-best-for-low-light-sony-nex-5n-or-nex-7-and-a77
Talk about David killing Goliath!
Wow,…I bet nobody saw THAT coming! Good job Sony!
Cliff
123
9 months ago |ANY one knows if there is going to be a replacement for the A55 any time soon?
Ted G.
9 months ago |I can’t wait for the A77 to finally be released so I can read actual REVIEWS, not comments from armchair internet “experts”. The only outrage is the overreaction and anger of people on these message boards. I understand why as I feel the same frustration at Sony for not living up to high standard/quality that they have been known for. If the A77 is a failure, then it just adds to this exasperation with this company.
Regardless of the stuff that’s been posted thus far, over the next couple of months, Sony is going to work out the issues on these preproduction models, if they haven’t done so already. The Canon 5D Mk II has had multiple rounds of firmware updates to address picture quality issues. The new 24 mpx sensor is not a failure and the NEX-5n does not produce better photos than the Canon 5D MK II. I don’t believe the NEX-5n will produce better photos than the A77/NEX7 either.
Wait and see…
ABETTERDJANDPHOTOGRAPHER
8 months ago |Hi Ya’ll,
We’ve been shooting with these fabulous SONY SLT-A77s for over 3 weeks now including 3 weddings and an engagement session.
The photos that actually come out of these cameras are outstanding and deserve to be the number 1 rated camera in every category they qualify for. We have shot over 5,000 excellent photos under varying conditions and couldn’t be happier with the results (no noise issues so far). The arrival last Wednesday of our new SONY 16-50 2.8 has enhanced the results even more. These camera/lens combos take photos so fast that they are on the generous LCD screen before your subject even finishes saying “cheese”!
We highly recommend this camera to any of you that have been thinking about buying one. We have a hands on review on both the camera and the lens on our site. Go to the SONY|MINOLTA tab at http://www.abetterdj.net
Happy shooting!