Sony UK says the A77 will not have a flip-up mode.
Paul Genge of Sony UK confirmed that the A77 will not have a flip-up mode to allow shooting without this extra sheet of glass in place.
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2010/09/21/sony-affirms-nex-future-and-slt-path-for-alpha/
So the ghosting issue won’t be fixed, nor we get better high-ISO.
Thanks Sky for sending me the link!
P.S:: The ghosting issue has been described here: http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10090705sonya55reviewupdate.asp


Sky_walker
2 years ago |No problem Andrea.
Bad news… hope Sony will change their mind, cause otherwise – it will be a deal-breaker in my humble opinion. I wouldn’t worry about anything in A77 I’ve seen so far as much as about night photo ghosting, even if it doesn’t occur in more than 10% of shots. Not even saying about resigning from 1/3 EV just like that… it’s a big camera, mirror isn’t a foil like the Pellicle mirror was, so why there won’t be a mirror flip-up mechanism… I can’t understand. ~_~
Limit it to single-shot mode, use the Alpha 900 mechanism to ensure lack of any smash and you could make it!
RB
2 years ago |Wait…. What Sony showed us so far is mid-range quality. Or to say it with Paul Genge’s words (Sony UK): The a33/a55 is “at an effordable price point. It is not a professional camera, it’s a camera we can all use to go out and take pictures of our kids” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibOeSi0hFM0)
I would suggest to wait what Sony will show us as in the “Advanced model”. I’m sure they didn’t use the latest coating technology so far in the a33/a55 and they might even improve the EVF quality for the advanced model at a higher price point… Just look at the T* coating of the Zeiss lenses — where you have a hard time to see flare despite the 48 surfaces in the 24-70/2.8 ZA lens…
So, let the guys make their work — and we might forget earlier about the OVF than we can imagine right now…
qbic
2 years ago |Jokers.
bernd
2 years ago |What “ghosting issue”?
Alex
2 years ago |Very bright highlights get a ghost due to internal reflections of the translucent mirror.
Max
2 years ago |Yep very bright highlights. Sorry Photoclub but also dpreview said that the ghosting “issues” are’nt so relevant for practicle purposes (the released Cameras are (low-)midrange products and shouldn’t be compare to a Nikon D7000, Canon 7D and so on). I am not a big fan of the new Cameras but for me the Battery and Lens issues are bigger Problems than that ghosting-thing.
greets
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Sure they aren’t but if you are night-time photographer – you cannot go with SLT. If you make photos with positive EV compensation – it’s also a no-go. ~_~
mike_2008
2 years ago |I think the jury is still out. I’m seeing more and more night time shots that show zero ghosting.
The really important test is whether you can get stuff accepted by a demanding place like Alamy, if it passes that then it’s pretty much OK. If not then it will not be possible to go too far with the SLT.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Well, I’ve seen a lot photos without ghosting and a lot with ghosting. I also seen some photos where at first glance there was no ghosting, but at second – it was all over.
Most of these were night-time shots, in daytime conditions I’ve seen ghosting only on dPreview samples, and on some Japanese forum, so I guess breaking these is more difficult, but still happens.
Either way – ghosting is minor problem, sure, but it is an existing problem without a doubt. A problem which can be very easily eliminated – just flip the mirror and all everything is solved. Not saying about 1/3 EV noise less
mike_2008
2 years ago |What lens issues?
misu
2 years ago |nor will I buy one.
aiming at professional users Sony would have to allow mirror lock-up, mpeg2-hd recording (warped as mxf), manual video control and stuff.
I wanted it for set photography as it is supposed to be very quiet and records 10fps, but on a movie set there so many light sources just ready to produce a ghost image when you don’t need it. 16mp would be enough for a movie poster and the ability to capture some ready to edit pro video would be great.
maybe next time.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |misu, few things:
1) You don’t need MLU with SLT camera. It’s like… having MLU all the time… if they would allow flipping mirror than sure, it’d beneeded, but A580 got it, so A7xx would have it guaranteed.
2) MXF nor full manual controls lay within professional photographers needs. Underline photographers.
3) Ghost images won’t be seen on video. It’d be only few pixels offset, something you’d never see. Photographs are the different thing though.
misu
2 years ago |sky_walker
ghost will be visible in photo so can’t be used for posters.
as for mxf vs pro photographers, maybe you should check how some photographers use their canon cameras and how much they spent on computers lately.
having these features would be helpful for me and few others.
Alex
2 years ago |Umm… hello… A580 and A560, or are those figments of my imagination?
Dennis
2 years ago |Now that’s the worst news lately.
Looking back, we had
1) Sony’s Photokina presentation was just marketing blabla, nothing new. (I don’t care, it’s good if the engineers are not busy preparing new mockups.)
2) Sony’s information policy sucks. You never know whether or when they will release what kind of camera. (I don’t care at all – every company tries to hide its jewelry as long as they can. I’ll be happy when they finally release something new.)
3) A77 might take another year. (I don’t care, have to save money right now.)
4) A77 will have an EVF. (I would prefer OVF, but for APS-C, EVF seems to have reasonable advantages. And I see the advantages of SLT.)
So far, so “good”. But this rumor really kills it. I’m not so much worried about the ghosting, but 1/3 light loss? Come one, that’s completely unacceptable for a semi-pro! No matter how good the sensor will be, we will still feel like idiots when Nikon releases a camera with the same sensor but with better high ISO performance. Sony always used to suck at high ISO. Now that they finally improved, they cripple their high ISO again? Nooooooooo! (Hope this remains a rumour. And there should be a petition against this: “Make the camera $50 more expensive and give us mirror flip-up!”)
damiga
2 years ago |I’m getting really discouraged.
eric m
2 years ago |This sounds like great news to me. I don’t see why so many people are disappointed that Sony will be releasing an advanced model camera, along with a 500mm f4 lens and a new flash. This is absolutely good news. The translucent mirror will be further developed for this model,(info directly from sonystyle blog) I can only imagine the fps on this one, if the a55 does 10fps with limitations, this one is gonna smoke the a55. I am optimistic about these mirrors, the ghosting ‘issue’ is not prevelant even on the a55, the next model will only be improved upon. Cheer up, and good riddance to flipping mirrors, hopefully.
eric m
2 years ago |To MISU, the translucent mirrors are always ‘locked up’, you don’t have to worry about it. They don’t move.
eric m
2 years ago |Nevermind Misu, I get what you mean now about mirror lock-up. But I don’t think ghosting will be a problem with these. Other than people are uneasy about it.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“I don’t see why so many people are disappointed that Sony will be releasing an advanced model camera, along with a 500mm f4 lens and a new flash”
- I can say about myself: I’m perfectly happy with that news. What I’m unhappy with however is Sony crippling the camera without any apparent reason.
People have been waiting for this over a year now, some already threaten to quit / have quit Sony after the PMA when the mock-up instead of camera was shown, than people quit/threaten to quit after this Photokina, so what finally Sony should release is flawless AA DSLR.
Yet they decide to cripple it. How nice >_>
Geir E
2 years ago |What is this constant bickering about “ghosting”?
the SLT introduce a lot of improvements, with the cost of a few situations this effect might occur. And all people can think of is this?
If I replace my camera soon, it will be a SLT camera. No doubt about it. I find the pros far outweigh the cons.
Rob
2 years ago |EVF I can live with. No option for a MLU equivalent is regrettable and quite possibly a deal breaker.
It was stated at the Sony flickr forum that technically there is no impediment to an OVF with a Translucent mirror. If Sony where to make such a SLT with a MLU, I would wait for such a camera.
Please listen Sony!
Steve Jones
2 years ago |I can’t help but see close parallels between the purists here and the arguments many of the film fraternity were making when DSLRs first started appearing and, before that, the attitude to AF.
In 10 years time, the EVF will be the norm on professional equipment. Optical viewfinders will be confined to a small niche. There are just too many fundamental advantages. Getting rid of the flip-up mirror, brighter viewfinder in dark conditions, providing more information in the viewfinder, video/still technology convergence. It’s the future. Get used to it. OVFs will just get better and better and any serious camera manufacturer not putting this near the top of their technological priorities is not going to remain a volume manufacturer of “serious” equipment.
As for the ghosting issue, then all the evidence appears to be that it only troubles those that go looking for it. There are a dozen far more important ways by which an image can be degraded and the SLT technology is going to be far better at enabling the getting of some of those difficult images more easily. Then there’s the reduced manufacturing costs, reduction in weight compared to a flip-up mirror, faster shutter speeds, it’s quieter, is more compact. The technology will also improve here too. I’m not saying that SLT will be the definitive technology though – it’s a work-around to allow phase detection AF to work. There are others looking at ways of putting phase detection capability into the sensor, and if that can be done without serious image degradation, it might well be that which wins out.
However, EVFs and the fully electronic professional camera will be the norm for all but a small niche. Just get used to the idea.
Alex
2 years ago |If you are not happy with SLT and EVF, buy an A900! Otherwise you can never complain.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |You can send me some cash for swapping all my DT lenses to FF equivalent, and sponsor the price difference between SLT and A900? I’d be eternally grateful!
Alex
2 years ago |So, you want everything but you don’t want to pay for it?
That’s why you don’t get what you want.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |lol. Nope, not at all. Something closer to what everyone other offer would be decent though. You know, what you suggest leads us to the point where all what people want are entry-level and full-professional cameras, which isn’t true in any way.
Francisco
2 years ago |Steve Jones said it best. EVF and SLT is the future and i’m glad Sony is taking bold steps in it’s development and inclusion in coming up products.
acolyte
2 years ago |Boo. I’m not looking forward to A77 like this.
Sony what’s up? o_O
James
2 years ago |I had a look at the A33 viewfinder in the shop today. Not impressed. Even the sales person said that the sales team did not like it either. Firstly there is no mistaking it is an LCD screen, the image has a completely different asthetic to an OVF. Secondly I can see the pixels. Thirdly it is a low resolution compressed representation of the final image it is no where near as good as a final RAW processed file. There is also a delay from when you place the viewfinder to your eye until it turns on. There is also a lag giving a sticatto effect as you move the camera around. I also noticed the whites crushed. I also found that looking at the LCD screen for some time extremely closely, once I finished my eye hurt and my vision took a few moments to return to normal. I would hate to think what effect long term use has on your vision. It is not like looking at the rear LCD screen. I compared it to the Nikon D90 OVF which is about the same size. There is no comparison in clarity. Viewing the actual light through a large OVF is a joy to behold. Don’t compare the A33 A55 viewfinders to the A5XX series they are woeful. Compare it to a Nikon D90 or Canon 7D. The EVF falls far short.
###
2 years ago |Don’t compare the Nikon D90 or Canon 7D viewfinders to the lower class A** series they are woeful. Compare it to a A900. The canicon falls far short.
eric m
2 years ago |James, are you certain the evf was set to it’s maximum perfomance level? I have a fuji camera with an evf, it is adjustable, I presume this one on the sony is adjustable also. I never take sales personnel word for anything, especially if they are on commission.
kb
2 years ago |I love this picture, a $5000 200mm 2.0.
who in their right mind will invest that type of money into a dysfunctional system that is having a mid life/ identity crisis. not me.
Brett
2 years ago |Yeah, and nobody’s going to buy that for their A77, unless they also have an A850/900 in their bag.
But having said that it does show a commitment from Sony to the “pro” end, Otherwise they wouldn’t be wasting their time on such lenses. And how much will the 500mm be?
Sonyboy68
2 years ago |Sony A850 & A900 will be stopped soon for A99 ;_)
Buy the future A77. It will be an amazing camera.
I loved it.
Arthur
2 years ago |I don’t want anything between my lens and my sensor. If Sony goes there with their top FF camera I will keep shooting film until its no longer made and then switch to Canon/Nikon. Why do they keep chasing a rabid monkey? Just make good still cameras and good vide camcorders and we’ll buy them. Now it’s neither.
Joel
2 years ago |60 fps, pretty please?
RB
2 years ago |Come on, guys… You see a mid range a33 and judge the pro level a77 will be of the same quality. For the moment, we know only Sony’s a300 and a500 style SLT, namely a33/a55. I would expect the same difference between an a55 and an a77 as it is now between an a500 and a900.
So, let’s wait and see what they will give us and THEN let us judge whether they did a great job or whether they have failed. Paul Genge said, the a77 will satisfy the highest demands… So, we will see whether he was just exaggerating or whether Sony really presents something fantastic, leaving the concurrence far behind…
Thundercats
2 years ago |Amen.
Joel
2 years ago |The A77 is going to be “advanced” and there will be some other undesignated SLT that is “pro-level.” I wouldn’t be surprised if the A77 was basically the A55 + better AF points/tracking, 60fps, maybe grip, and bigger battery. I’m all for it if they surprise us, but if it’s coming out in 4-5 months, I doubt it will have GH2 level video features (1:1 sensor zoom / touch focus).
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“For the moment, we know only Sony’s a300 and a500 style SLT, namely a33/a55” – it’s more like: A500 and A550 style SLT. Difference between A33 and A55 is notably: resolution. Whole the rest is nearly identical, so I don’t see how it’s a300 vs a500.
Catastrophile
2 years ago |apparently the A77 will mirror the successes and failures of A55, just translucently!
Larry madix
2 years ago |Im a working pro photograher and I love the a55 evf over any OVF and I love the small size. There is a growing trend where pro photographers even with larger hands useing smaller cameras. Most of you guys who complain about how bad the EVF are probebly the kind of people who take pics of just your kids or pets or street lamps all day long and call yourself experts. Stop complaining and learn to take better photos, cameras are just tools and who says you need to look pro to get pro images….
Jason
2 years ago |To Larry
Firstly, please understand that I am not writing any of this as personal criticism to you or your character. First of all, being a professional establishes one fact: you make all or part of your income from your photography-related work. It is not sufficient to say that all professionals take good photos/know what they are doing. I have run into many self-proclaimed professionals as well, who know next to nothing about photography.
Having said that, I have not seen your work and I am not in a position to judge you, thus, please note that I am not. Your opinion and your post is valued and taken into consideration.
But everything that you wrote starting from “Most of you guys who complain…” is just hateful and not helping in this discussion. It may very well be true that many people on these forums are terrible photographers. But it also may very well be that everyone here constitutes a sample of photographers who take their work seriously and can produce decent photos.
Recap:
Your work may be brilliant and wonderful, but we are not able to pass this judgement. For the very same reason, you are in no position to judge other readers of this board. Let’s keep the discussion within the scope of the photographic tools and avoid the ad hominem. =) Happy discussing everyone
Jason
2 years ago |Also, you made a very good point about professionals using smaller bodies. This is a good idea for secondary body use, as carrying around 2 a900 bodies would be terrible on the shoulders =(
pmac
2 years ago |My guess is this argument will just go round and round in circles for years. Someone earlier raised the issue of independent quality testing from site like Alamy being the ultimate judge. I understand the logic of that argument, I’ve even used it myself, but its never got anywhere.
Despite submitting thousands of images and getting many fails, I have never, ever had a single reject for excessive noise. Instead, I’ve been repeatedly rejected because a 12 Mp capture could not be uprezzed to meet the minimum size requirements. Yet, no matter how much this is repeated I am constantly told that Mp dont count and that all we need is lower noise.
Sony’s noise performance did (and I stress the past tense) lag the mainstream slightly but never as much as people claimed and never with the real impact people feared. Ghosting is an issue but on all the evidence I’ve seen its precisely the same scenario, no-where near the problem claimed and nothing like the impact feared.
But Sony is a hated brand (even, or perhaps especially, by its own users) so this alone will give the topic legs. Combined with an especially conservative current market I suspect people will continue doing 100, 200, even 300% inspections trying to find the most minute problems. That is what it is.
All I know is that the people actually working with the new cameras to get great images are almost certainly going to be doing better and enjoying their hobby/work far than those spending their energy just complaining about them.
Daniel
2 years ago |Well, as I’ve seen Larry’s comment and find myself a little bit intrigued, I would love to find out what kind of pro work he had in mind and a description of the camera’s and lenses he uses for his work, becouse I myself use the A 850 coupled with the Zeiss 24-70, 70-200 G, 135 f 1.8 Zeiss mainly and several other premium lenses like the Zeiss 85 and two sigmas for macro. I’d like to remember anyone that there is no better viewfinder in the A850 & A900 price and market segment, so I believe Sony should stay true to this in the future. Using fast lenses and the primes described tought me that the already brilliant bright OVF will get more light so it will get even better when composing in low light environments. The effect of more light gathering will show in the OVF making composing shots a delight. Sony’s implemented EVF is not bad at all, but no match for real pro requierments. I know Sony is going to launch a hybrid in the near future taking it one step further. Other than bringing a little “light” to this topic the A55 is just fun to use and aI believe that any camera should be used to get the most out of it and to express your own vision about photography.