(SR3) A new A600 rumor update
Carl Garrard got an update about the A600 rumor. In very last moment Sony opted for the 16.2 Megapixel sensor instead of the rumor 18.4 Megapixel sensor. This happens because of the high demand of the 16.2mp sensor from other manufacturers so that the 18.4mp sensor wasn’t put to production. The good news is that the 16.2mp sensor was upgraded!
Please keep in mind that the rumor is coming via Carl’s source. So I cannot tell you if the rumor is correct or not. Anyway, I am sure the A57 and probably the NEX-F3 are coming soon (March 13th). I also heard about unknown other camera coming soon. This may or may not include that A600 model.
Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!

Colamango
4 months ago |(SR5)update
admin
4 months ago |???
matt
4 months ago |Carl Garrard said: “…Could it be? Sony are going to provide a choice afterall in the mid range segment? Rumors on SAR state there will be an A900 replacement with an OVF maybe one in the mid range too isn’t so crazy.”
Makes so much sense to keep 1 apsc ovf and 1 fullframe ovf. But they better dumb it down, because if the ovf outperforms the evf with a same sensor, they will shoot self in foot. Come to think, ovf is not so good for video as much as evf for video, so why not just delete video option from the ovf lineup to cut costs savings? When i bought my A850, I did not care for video, and one of the major selling points was price; A850 had same sensor as A900 but much cheaper.
kevin
4 months ago |…because it’s impossible to sell any camera to a consumer today without video capability?
matt
4 months ago |then get the slt evf. the point is to distinguish the ovf and evf.
i guess you have never heard of a leica? pure photographer’s camera, no video, long waiting list.
Carl
4 months ago |M9s are more successful as a status symbol than as a photographer’s camera.
I really like the M9, though, so don’t take that as me hating on it.
Sahaja
4 months ago |It wouldn’t be a bad thing from a marketing perspective do be known as the producer of a sort of DSLR equivalent of the M9.
SonyA77
4 months ago |@matt
Producing a non-video dSLR is commercial suicide. The reviewers would kill it stone dead. It’s what they did on Sony dSLRs before Sony put video in them, no video was always mentioned.
Maximus
4 months ago |and it does not save costs neither, the software is there, the sensor can do it, so why shouldn’t they implented it?
lynn
4 months ago |?? labor hours and support for anything is not freeee
Ezio
4 months ago |????
Hello World
4 months ago |Started drinking early?
PhotoNut
4 months ago |Hahaha. “in the last minute the 18.4mpx sensor was switched for existing 16mpx sensor”. LOL
Please don’t be so gullible in the future. Clearly it was the source of the rumor that did last minute switching not SONY.
emopunk
4 months ago |+1 If they had a better 18,4mpix sensor they would use it already.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Yup we would already have heard about it and so would Nikon.
Sahaja
4 months ago |If Nikon heard of it they may have insisted it go in one of their cameras before it appears in a Sony camera.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Indeed, that’s why it doesn’t exist.
lifeispixels
4 months ago |If the rumor about A600 using the improved 16.2 mega pix sensor is true, I’m sure the same sensor will be found on the new A57 as well.
ISO KING!!! at least i hope that…
Hello World
4 months ago |ICL=Intercgangable Camera Lens. The new Sony’s system.
lifeispixels
4 months ago |I guess that’s what Sony wants to set it apart from Canikon crowd. They can’t deliver lens quickly but they can deliver new camera bodies every couple of months LOL…
SonyA77
4 months ago |New camera models keep Sony in the news.
Chia
4 months ago |so A600 probably is not a SLT, right?
räven
4 months ago |This was my thought as well. All the new slt’s use double digit model number instead of triple digit.
David
4 months ago |Meh. APS-C, plastic body… No care
RVN
4 months ago |just bring us a new camera FF, sony T___T
joel
4 months ago |Um. So really what’s the benefit of this F3? I understand updating the NEX video camera bodies (kind of) but it is really frustrating to have so many new bodies and so few decent lenses. Sony needs a whole range of lenses that match the quality of an price of the 50mm (but at better APS focal lengths–like 60mm instead of 50). Basically I’m in love with the NEX system but really wish they would blatantly copy the XPro lens lineup. There I said it.
Adam Maas
4 months ago |Yearly iteration of the 3-series body, mild upgrades, the newer sensor (the C3′s got an interim step between the original 16MP sensor from the A55/A580 and the 5N’s sensor which is better optimized for non-telecentric lenses like the 16/2.8)
Matt
4 months ago |Where do you get this? The C3 was the first model with the upgraded 16MP sensor. So far as I know the only difference between C3 and 5n in relation to sensor is that the 5n isn’t artificially limited to ISO 200 as the lowest ISO – thus scoring slightly better in DR etc. The C3 so far as I can recall had the same micro-lens arrangement as 5n, but the C3 tends to be the forgotten brother of the 5n.
Adam Maas
4 months ago |Head-to-head testing between the C3 and 5N in the Alt Lens forum at Fred Miranda proved quite conclusively that the 5N and C3 do not have the same sensor variant. They’re related but at a minimum the 5N has a more effective microlens layout which improves corner performance with the 16mm as well as adapted RF wides and ultra-wides. The C3′s sensor is improved over the previous versions and was the first to have the shifted microlens array but Sony clearly tweaked the design between iterations.
Theres in fact very little difference between any of the 16MP sensors in terms of DR or noise (compare the C3, 5N and A580 at DXO Mark) the changes have primarily been in the sensor toppings and support electronics.
Vivek
4 months ago |Does anyone need this camera?!
I finally picked up the Sony E 50/1.8.
Are there any more decent lenses coming for the NEX? How about a 30/1.2, huh?
räven
4 months ago |Yeah or a 3000mm f/0.95 for 20$ with perfect optical properties. COME ON SONY! DON’T LET US DOWN!!!
Vivek
4 months ago |???
Hello World
4 months ago |Just ignore him.
Matt
4 months ago |I think he was giving you a hard time over wanting a 35 f1.2. Which is a little absurd for the NEX given that it would have an astronomical price. Maybe hope for a f1.8 or f2 instead?
Adam Maas
4 months ago |Why is it absurd? Plenty of people are already shooting a 35/1.2 on their NEx’s, for non-ridiculous prices (the CV 35/1.2 Nokton in M mount runs a little more than the ZA E 24/1.8). Sony could do a 35/1.2 in a native mount for a reasonable (if highish) price. $14-1500 sounds about right for that.
I think we’ll see a 35/1.8 reasonably quickly (likely an adaptation of the excellent DT 35/1.8 SAM for A mount). But a 35/1.2 would sell just as well (or better) than the 24/1.8.
Denis
4 months ago |you are wrong dude: 8-3000/f0.95
lorenzino
4 months ago |It it is has good IQ and weights less than 500 gr., I will buy it as soon as it appears!
(PS: LOL)
The Lotus Eater
4 months ago |After the last rumour was almost completely debunked, did Carl realise his make-believe 18.4mp sensor sounded pretty silly? All of a sudden this A600 has a sensible sensor used in other Sony cameras… all in the space of 24 hours.
As much as I wish this rumour was true, I’m more inclined to think that somebody is full of shit.
PhotoNut
4 months ago |+1
Big manufacturer like Sony does not change sensor model/design like that on a dime. Sony does not even make an 18mpx APS-C CMOS sensor anyway. So why would they suddenly make a new sensor for use in just one model? What is the economy of scale there?
Matt
4 months ago |Why would it be only in one model? I’m not saying it is true, but your comment makes no sense. Of course Sony are working on newer entry level APS-C sensors. These will find their way into new NEX, low/midrange Sony and entry/midrange Nikon cameras (at least). You can’t dismiss it because it has only been talked about this far in one model – new sensors tend to get rolled out across multiple models, but not ever one from day 1.
Still don’t really believe this source, but still.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Absolutely. A last minute swap of sensor is ridiculous. If the source can’t get the main component right then that kind of blows the reliability of the rest of the so-called specification rumour out of the water too.
Sahaja
4 months ago |We don’t know how “last minute” this is. Camera companies likely make early prototypes of new cameras using more than one sensor.
Sony’s sensor division also likely make a number of prototype sensors – only a few of which make it into full scale commercial production.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Well the rumour changed in 24 hours, so that’s pretty last minute!
MCP
4 months ago |TLE- Funny how you say “his make-believe 18.4mp sensor” I guess you can’t read. I read what he said, and its clear the person who’s sending him info’may’shun is replying to Carl’s questions.
Even Carl said he didn’t think that sensor spec made sense. You just pick and choose what you’ll take out of context don’t you?
Your credibility is showing its true colors here, you’re just on a personal vendetta, very clear and obvious. What did this guy do to you? Steal your girlfriend or something? Wee in your Earl Grey?
end of line.
Aero
4 months ago |An Exmor R 16.2mp sensor or not?
Solo
4 months ago |Someone is clearly full of shit.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Another SR1, the credibility of the rating system is taking a nose-dive!
blabla
4 months ago |16 or 18 MP, who cares? It is more important that Sony is back on the shelf with good products! You can almost only find DSLR from Canon in store and a few Nikon but no Alpha at the moment… and 600€ for an 18MP Canon 600D is not bad either, is it ?
SonyA77
4 months ago |Sony have always been crap at filling shelves and marketing. Nikon in particular have got marketing nailed, they are excellent at marketing their dSLRs. Go into my local shops and it’s wall to wall Canon and Nikon.
Sony are too busy with their Sony Vita to be bothered about a few camera sales.
Spoon
4 months ago |Maybe where you live. Here it’s almost Sony overload in stores. What’s still lacking here is educated personnel.
SonyA77
4 months ago |I’d be able to cope with Sony overload and crap staff.
Wheelus
4 months ago |That’s correct. I was in Best Buy a month ago talking to one of the sales clerks in their “Camera Department.” He was amazed at what I knew about Sony and I gave him an excellent education. He wanted to know where I learned all of that information. All of that information should have come from a Sony Sales Representative not from me.
Carl
4 months ago |Last time I checked the local electronic stores, the only Sony that was actually available off the shelf at any of them was the A290. I’m only talking a few months ago here. The local photography stores had no Sony bodies at all.
To see the SLTs and NEXes, I had to go to some pokey little Parallel Import store. The dinky little place had a better selection of Sonys than all the electronics and photography stores in the region. Funny how that works.
calxn
4 months ago |I would have to agree with that. My local Camulet used to carry the Alpha lines and displayed it prominently with info on the IBIS. Now, I don’t think they even carry it or if they do, you have to request them to go find it. Not sure if it just wasn’t selling well or maybe they heard Sony giving Best Buy more marketing money. Whenever I go to BB, they always try to steer me towards the NEX system. Then I go home and order it on Amazon.
Thank goodness BB exist to showroom these product before we buy on Amazon.
calxn
4 months ago |Upgraded 16mp sensor? Do I hear a NEX-6? Yes, please.
Steve-S
4 months ago |… “The good news is that the 16.2mp sensor was upgraded!”
Is this part of the same rumor, from the same source?
Or is there other/independent information on this “upgrade”?
Any details as to what is different in this rendition?
Thanks!
- Steve S.
Cliff
4 months ago |Wow, this is good news. I hope the rumor is true.
A new Sony 16mp camera with no translucent mirror sounds pretty cool. I have high expectations for this guy.
I hope it has two programmable dials (index and thumb) and has the same build quality and firmware features as the A77.
Go Sony!
pancanikonpus
4 months ago |Sony failed if A57 not high end model! today many are please with SLT EVF and only certain number need high end OVF dslr and sony feed them this A57 @@”
matt
4 months ago |agreed! in general, amatuers dont understand exposure enough to use ovf, cant shoot auto everything. so a high end ovf would be better off. maybe A77-evf A770-ovf? And fullframe A950/990?
Pei
4 months ago |What sort of upgrade? Lower power or higher ISO?
Mr Lee
4 months ago |HOPE THIS IS TRUE !!! If so, It sounds like the a580 replacement…
The a 580 was was the upgrade to the a560, which was 20 more… Now “600″ is 20 more than 580 in numbering. The a580 was a killer camera so I hope this is true… If so Ill take 2.
Matt
4 months ago |The a580 wasn’t the replacement to the a560 – they were released at the same time. The a580 replaced the a550.
decato
4 months ago |This mid level OVF camera is just not going to happen. Rumor or a rumor from a rumor. Too rumor to be true.
Sony has to play the SLT card in this hand.
Cliff
4 months ago |“Sony has to play the SLT card in this hand”
Sure,…agreed. However, I see nothing wrong with Sony “also” competing in the SLR arena too!
There is allot of money out there to be had from people that don’t want a phase detect AF camera. For me?,..I don’t need that feature. I shoot 8/9 out of 10 pix in manual focus anyway. So a translucent mirror does me no good. I strongly question having something in my optical path that I don’t use anyway.(although I DO like the EVF)
I think Sony can play well in both worlds. I think they can make MORE money when playing in both worlds too.
MCP
4 months ago |“I think Sony can play well in both worlds. I think they can make MORE money when playing in both worlds too.”
Cliff, that’s simply too difficult a concept for some nunk heads here to comprehend. At the least I see Sony doing a high level (and expensive) OVF camera – but they really put off a lot of users by doing so many radical design changes all the time. No consistency.
Seems desperate.
end of line.
lorenzino
4 months ago |I guess you like Tron…
matt
4 months ago |…and then sony wins the patent wars! canon and nikon too much consistency(lazy) is rewarded by being stuck in the past forever.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Canon and Nikon kill Sony and will continue to do so for some time. The only way Sony can stand out from the crowd is to be innovative.
They will continue to pursue the EVF line and get rid of SLT eventually. Mirror-less is where it’s going when the AF performance is ready.
There may be an OVF full frame, but I highly doubt any APS-C model having an OVF as they are expensive to manufacture. There is no point developing a OVF APS-C that will continue to be killed by the 600D/5100D.
end of line.
MCP
4 months ago |Yeah and how has “being innovative” worked for them the last 6 years? Not very well in DSLRS at all. There is another way you are just being blind as Sony about the subject.
end of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |The real question is, how far did they get trying to compete with Canon and Nikon producing OVF dSLRs? The answer being “not very”.
So having a strategy that clearly isn’t working, you think they should continue with it? You have a very strange attitude to how a business should operate.
end of line.
Cliff
4 months ago |Sony doesn’t necessarily need to beat Nikon and Canon in sales numbers. (it would be nice but it’s not vital)
Sony needs to beat “itself” in sales numbers. The Sony Alpha/NEX division needs show that it is “growing” year over year. They must sell more cameras in 2013 than it did in 2012 or 2011. (Thailand tragedy will hurt in the short term)
Even if their industry market share against Nikon and Canon is only very modest, if Sony can keep selling more cameras than the year before, than investors will keep the money coming.
I think a balanced SLR and SLT model lineup will only HELP Sony’s year over year sales numbers.
I believe this is key:
An “A600″ that is NOT CRIPPLED to protect the A77, will HELP Sony make it’s sales goals. Don’t “force” the Sony SLR fans to buy into SLT. Make roads for BOTH technologies and let the buyers decide.
If they sell more SLR than SLT or vice versa, so be it!
The bigger issue is SELLING CAMERAS and showing year over year profit increases.
Lets not be afraid of SLR and worry if too many people will want that over SLT. Make that A600 (if it even exists..lol) a smart camera and don’t dumb it down. That typical trick wont help Sony if they make it “dumb” and nobody buys the thing!
SLR fans are out there and Sony needs to tap that market too.
MCP
4 months ago |@SonyA77
LOL! Oh so now you are speaking for me eh!
The POINT, my short sighted friend, is that Sony has no clue on WHAT strategy to follow in order to SUCCEED in the DSLR business.
The shotgun 360 killem with choice approach will NEVER work for them long term.
One thing they haven’t done yet is the same thing that the big two manufacturers have done, EARN their customers through a methodology that works.
So they need a completely different mentality and approach- that will require different management at the top level.
@Cliff- WELL FRICKEN SAID!
end, of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Unfortunately you are completely missing the point. The tiny sales of OVF cameras probably doesn’t justify the manufacturing cost. Canon and Nikon kill Sony in the OVF market and they need to create their own market.
For Sony, OVF is dead and SLT a sticking plaster, mirror-less is where they are going, if you don’t like it, jump ship now.
It is patently obvious that if Sony OVF cameras were so popular and selling so well, they would manufacturer them. The reason Sony don’t manufacture OVF cameras is staring you in the face guys!
end of line.
Carl
4 months ago |Encouraging people to jump ship is not the best way to grow their market.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Carl, that depends on the numbers. If the number of OVF users that jump to Canon and Nikon is vastly outnumbered by new SLT numbers, why should Sony care?
Carl
4 months ago |Because there’s nothing stopping them making both? You seem intent on perpetuating a false dichotomy.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Carl, where is your evidence that it is financially viable for Sony to continue with OVF cameras? The ceasing of OVF cameras doesn’t appear to support your assertion.
Carl
4 months ago |You have some supportable evidence that it isn’t viable, rather than conjecture on your part?
You don’t know the reason Sony ceased making SLRs, you’re merely assuming that it was a cost issue.
SonyA77
4 months ago |So you don’t have any. Glad we got that sorted.
If you re-read my posts you’ll see a lot of “probably” and “maybe” in there.
However, would you care to answer the main point? If OVF cameras were successful why would they stop manufacture of them in favour of SLT?
I’d imagine the shareholders would take a very dim view of ceasing production of a commercially viable product that is making vast sums of money.
The reason they don’t make them is pretty obvious.
Carl
4 months ago |Too much conjecture can lead one down wrong paths very easily.
But going with that anyway, my view is that Sony’s management saw that strong(ish) support the A33 and A55 got, and overplayed their hands, underestimating the number of people opposed to the SLT design and overestimating the pace of Moore’s Law, and now find themselves in a quandary about what to do about it.
But I have nothing to support that besides a hunch, so I’m not about to go forcing that down the throats of other people on the internet based on insufficient evidence to draw even a solid inference. Reality is rarely so clear-cut.
SonyA77
4 months ago |I doubt management would have dropped a successful OVF product with the shareholders looking over their shoulder no matter what management thought the future was.
The numbers talk and they probably had very poor A580 sales compared to the A55, this was hinted at when Sony said they were surprised by the interest in the A55 and that it influenced their decision to go SLT for the A700 replacement.
If Sony weren’t absolutely sure about SLT I think we would have seen an OVF version of the A77 too, which was also hinted at, the A750.
It appears the shareholders were happy to dump OVF for the A7 series and the only way they’d make that decision would be on solid numbers for the A55 and poor sales of the A580.
One other thing, there appears to be an impression that I am anti-OVF. Clearly choice is a good thing and I could not care less how many OVF cameras Sony have, I still have one! However, perhaps I am more of a realist in terms of the direction that Sony have taken, if the A77 turned out rubbish, I would be a Nikon user now, I really don’t care about brand.
Carl
4 months ago |The A580 sold poorly, there’s solid evidence to back that assertion up. But then, it wasn’t even sold in a lot of markets, had negligible advertising, and was hard for a consumer to see its benefit over the A500/A550/A560 given that Sony hardly made that clear. That is to say, it was a balls up.
I’ve never had the impression that Sony’s shareholders are very dominant at all. In recent times the company has made more annual losses than they have annual profits, and I if my memory isn’t failing me the television division hasn’t had more than three or four years in the black since the demise of CRT as money spinner. The imaging division is also lumped together with the ILC models accountable to the same people as the much higher volume point and shoots, which obfuscates its performance information from shareholders. Finally, there is the same sort of hands off Japanese shareholding that allowed Olympus to commit blatant securities fraud at play at Sony as well, which explains why Stringer wasn’t knifed years ago. So I dunno, I don’t think there’s enough evidence the shareholders have much of an opinion either way regarding SLT cameras; the imaging division is in the black, which is more than can be said for the company as a whole, so doesn’t appear to be under the microscope.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Perhaps I am being overly simplistic when talking of “shareholders”, it was an obvious attempt to keep it simple and illustrate that it isn’t only dSLR management that look at the numbers.
What I mean is, whoever is looking over the numbers for their dSLR business. These people do not care about the technology and probably don’t know what an OVF/EVF is!
Their only interest is the raw numbers and what product is and is not making a lot of money and worth manufacturing.
Carl
4 months ago |Right, it’s only natural that money speaks in business.
Where we differ is that I see the ILC sub-division as not being run by people who are the epitome of rationality and good judgement. A number of decisions they’ve made (and reversals of decisions, and sitting on their hands refusing to make a decision) paint a picture to me of a schizophrenic and flip-flop prone bunch who poorly understand the business they’re in and feel they need to resort to the hail-mary solution of throwing products out there and seeing what sticks. Sometimes this works well (A900, ZA24-70, etc) and sometimes it leads to an embarrassing train-wreak (A580, the discontinuation of the A700 and the wait for its successor, etc).
Seen this way the decision to drop SLRs in favour of a SLT only approach doesn’t so much come across as an inspired coup, as it does as management seeing early success in a product and letting emotion get the better of themselves.
Now, assuming this is even true, there’s nothing in this to suggest SLTs won’t prove to be the superior methodology in the long run. However, I think there’s enough evidence to support the proposition that in photography it’s easier to keep one’s own customer base than it is to win over someone else’s. I’m not convinced that Sony appreciate the level of risk they’ve taken, or have contingencies to deal with things if they are proven to made the wrong call.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Oh I’ve never said that Sony management are any good, we definitely do NOT differ in that respect. The same can easily be said for Canon and Nikon upper management too no doubt, just ask any Canon or Nikon user about some of the bizarre stuff those brands get up to.
My ONLY assertion is that for whatever reason, Sony do not see the OVF as being financially viable. Money does indeed talk. That and SLT isn’t here for the long run, mirror-less is.
Cliff
4 months ago |Let’s I’m a Bible maker and decide to make Christian Bibles. I then take that bible and try to sell it to Jews and Muslims in the hopes of “converting” them to Christianity. I prolly will succeed a little bit in doing that and yes, sell allot of Bibles to Christians.
However, If I manufacture Christian Bibles, Quran’s AND Torah’s? I will certainly sell more books!
Sony can’t put all it’s eggs into one technology basket. Why would they deliberately limit their market potential?
There a zillion photogs out there that wont accept SLT. Period. So why only limit the company to the minority that do accept it?
Bottom line is this; Sony’s goal is sell camera’s and make a PROFIT. They need to produce products that appeal to a WIDE base of customers.
If your goal is to catch fish, will you only fish in a pond and ignore the ocean? Will you stick to the pond because you think that ocean fishing is too big a job or it’s too hard?
Seriously?
Bologna! Sony CAN fish in SLR waters as well as anybody! The Sony Alpha division today is NOT what it was 4 years ago. They CAN slowly chip away at Canon/Nikon. They CAN produce SLT & SLR cameras that are a good as their competition.
It will take Sony some time. Hell, Canon/Nikon have a 30 year industry and cultural head start on Sony!
All Sony needs to do is: Make GREAT cameras with WIDE market appeal and focus on outselling “ITSELF” and profiting each year over year.
With that formula, Sony will be #1 in 5-10 years. I’m sure of it.
BTW,..I don’t understand some people here. It’s like the translucent mirror technology has become some kind of “religious” belief or something. Any criticism of it “hurts” feelings or something. It’s just “auto focus” folks. Good AF is NEVER going to turn the industry upside down. They must (and will) do ALLOT more.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Your bible analogy is flawed.
Bible users don’t rave to their friends and on the Internet about who published their bible. There are no magazine and review sites pushing one bible publisher over another.
When people buy a bible I very much doubt they care who printed it.
As I said, if the number of people wanting OVF cameras is vastly outweighed by new SLT users, Sony will not care if they lose them to Canon and Nikon.
Carl
4 months ago |Actually, there are christian websites just as there are photography ones, and yes, they have flame wars over inconsequential little things too.
SonyA77
4 months ago |I realise that, but in general the analogy is flawed. I don’t recall any time where a bible “user” asked my local book shop about the publisher.
MCP
4 months ago |A77, I’m totally completely convinced by your replies that you are incapable of acquiescing to logical points. You have several people here all making solid points, all basically saying the same thing.
Just quit now, its obvious you don’t know what the hellfire you are talking about.
end of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |MCP are you going to contribute to the debate or troll?
end of line.
MCP
4 months ago |Perfect example of my point right there.
Scroll up. I have contributed to this discussion- but I don’t debate with someone who is incapable of acquiescing to logic. Fruitless endeavor.
You want to debate till others see things your way- good luck with that here, and in life.
end of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |“The POINT, my short sighted friend…”
“that’s simply too difficult a concept for some nunk heads here to comprehend”
Just a couple of quotes from your “contribution” to this debate.
It appears that yet again I have to point out the irony of your comment.
end of line.
MCP
4 months ago |Lol whatever. Mr. Pull Quotes Out of Context
end of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |@MCP, the full text is there for all to see.
end of line.
Cliff
4 months ago |@SonyA77
lol,..OK, the analogy is a “loose” one with a general concept.
The point is SLT is temporary. When Phase Detect AF moves to the sensor itself, the translucent mirror is dead. The OVF and the EVF will be another debate.
Sony needs to sell cameras. The more the better. Their ultimate goal would be to make several models of camera in both SLT and SLR variations and have each model be individually profitable.
If a new kick ass, HOT selling Sony SLR camera hit the scene and everybody loved it, would that hurt Sony? Let’s say this new fictitious were to outsell the A77,…would that not be a feather in Sony’s cap?
Look,…you keep saying things like “If you don’t like SLT than leave here and go buy Canon/Nikon”
That’s fine for YOU to say but not fine for a company trying to make money in this industry. Companies that make things say: “Oh,..you don’t this [insert product here] that’s OK, we have other ones that you might like better.”
Ford will NEVER say, what? you don’t like our Ford Focus? Than screw you,..go over to Toyota across the street. Nope,…they will say; “OK,..how about our Fusion or our Fiesta, you might like these better.”
Sony just can it stuck into that thinking. Don’t drive customers away by making cars that only certain people want.
Make what people are asking for and they will sell more cameras and make more money.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Yup, SLT is a stop-gap, said it up there^^ a couple of times. Mirror-less is the future.
As far as EVF is concerned, Sony are opening up a new market offering a USP on their cameras, rather than trying to compete in the crowded OVF market. By developing EVF now, they are way ahead of the game when the inevitable happens, no more OVF from any manufacturer except in some exceptional high-end high-cost models. It’s only a matter of time.
I don’t say “If you don’t like SLT than leave here and go buy Canon/Nikon”, that is what you WANTED to read. What I say is that if you are an OVF user then Sony is clearly not for you, jump ship now.
If I wasn’t happy with the A77 EVF I would not be hanging around here, I’d be on a Nikon forum right now. I also say things like, if you want high ISO jpegs, then get a Nikon. Horses for courses. I have ZERO brand loyalty.
I’ll repeat yet again, if Sony were making stacks of cash producing OVF cameras, they’d be producing them! People HERE may be asking for OVF cameras, but a few hundred or even thousand forum users doesn’t equate to 50,000 OVF units per month every month.
Cliff
4 months ago |Oh brother, type O’s galore!
Just give the customers what they want and make it profitable.
Right now, OVF/SLR is what the industry wants in high numbers today. Sony needs to be there too. (and keep plugging away at SLT if it’s profitable too)
Anybody that says that Sony can’t successfully do OVF/SLR today is full of crap.
SonyA77
4 months ago |If only giving people what they want and being profitable in a crowded dSLR market, where you are practically an also-ran was so simple!
Sony can do an OVF dSLR, but would it sell well against the equivalent Canon or Nikon? History suggests not, they’ve been doing it for years now. The Canon and Nikon brand advantage is insurmountable.
Existing Canon and Nikon shooters aren’t going to swap in massive numbers to Sony, existing low-mid range Sony shooters may see the benefit of the SLT and EVF (and many will not). The A77 appears to be well received in even biased magazine reviews, so may sell well to existing and new Sony users.
So are Sony going to divert resources and flog a dead horse with OVF in the face of Canon and Nikon dominance or are they better pushing the benefits of EVF and SLT to a new breed of user and those unconcerned about EVF?
Cliff
4 months ago |@SonyA77,
“What I say is that if you are an OVF user then Sony is clearly not for you, jump ship now.”
It’s quite possible that this statement “might” be wrong.
It could be soon that if OVF is your thing, than Sony IS for you also. (I’m hoping the rumor is true)
Sony has turned the corner on it’s industry perception problems. partially because of SLT but even more on superior sensor design, sensor readout and really friggin good post processing and noise reduction.
Sony today can squeeze every photon out of those tiny photosites! It’s impressive.
I think they were a little “green” when they first took over Minolta and the first years of that work. I see them just now starting to hit their stride in terms of price, build quality and image quality.
Sony was an industry joke several years ago. Today, the industry is no longer laughing.
They CAN do OVF and they CAN make money at it if they really try today.
SonyA77
4 months ago |…and you could be right, I hope you ARE right. But don’t you think it looks too good to be true? It ticks too many boxes, it’s too perfect. It’s like somebody has listed the best bits from current Sony models and then lumped an OVF onto it.
I think Sony turned a corner with the A55/A580, the A580 in particular was VERY close in high ISO IQ to the “untouchable” D7000. It just didn’t have a Nikon badge on it and I reckon that Sony had already decided to ditch OVF back then…
Walt
4 months ago |The a600 is a pretty cut down model to be something to save the experienced and pro people for Sony. Easily, so easily beaten by Canon or Nikon. If they actually want to save the experienced and pro people in APS that they are loosing they start far higher, at least as a minimum as high as the a700 true replacement with modern feature set. If the SLT are so wonderful that’s how you find out, you compete on a level playing field, not by how Sony has designed the 500 series and then barely supported it with ones to sell.
Why did the a700 fail? Did it fail? It was the second DSLR Sony put out, they were unknowns in the field. One cannot expect the numbers they could sell back then would be equal to today’s numbers that they could sell in OVF DSLR.
No one here has the true numbers to tell if the a700 met the expectations of Sony back then. They did say at the time that it was selling better than their expectations, but that may or may not be propaganda. No figures have been released for either their expectations or their actual sales. We do know the initial production lines were set up to produce only 10,000 per month and that they did expand production beyond that.
We do have the extreme high numbers of photos posted on the internet that were taken with a700s and are still being taken with a700s. Those are proof that plenty of the cameras were sold.
I feel at this point that the a600 is a rumor that’s all too convenient to try and keep people from switching at a time when switching has been increasing. That may be all it is, vaporware to fool people. It’s design level is not high enough to be a real attempt to keep experienced and pro APS people. At best it would have to be the first of a line of APS OVF DSLRs to have any real influence on perception of Sony producing OVF again, and that line would need top designs at the 700 series level. Sony will have to do that through multiple generations to be believed now.
SonyA77
4 months ago |I see the point you are trying to make, it would make sense for any OVF release to be at the A7xx level to keep the faith in Sony.
However isn’t the A600 pretty close, apart from the penta-mirror OVF? I would imagine sticking a penta-prism in it would be too costly.
glt
4 months ago |I don’t think this is aimed at pros that want to keep using their Zeiss and G glass. Rather, the photographers who got into Alpha because of the affordable glass (at the time), using affordable bodies.
But i agree, it wouldn’t make sense if they only made this optical finder camera without high end model. There is demand for both.
bas076
4 months ago |And after all A580 is still one of the best sony cameras, that simply need 1/250s synchronization with flash, better AF and possibilty to choose ISO with 1/3 stop steps. May be upgrade to 7fps with continious AF and a little bit bigger body and OVF. Of cause PDAF in LV mode. Yes it makes the constraction more difficult but but this is one of those things that made that model attractive.
If Sony kills the line of A580 without replacement, must be provided some thing much better then all released SLT bodyes. There are alot of users that not interested in FF cameras, much more then interested in.
SonyA77
4 months ago |I don’t think Sony have ever had 1/250 on anything less than a 7 series. It’s one of those features that Sony use to differentiate between amateur and advanced user models.
Spoon
4 months ago |Don’t forget the flash (shutter)lag in general that needs a fix.
MCP
4 months ago |Short fix list compared to the A77. Never has Sony thrown out so many buggy cameras (a77/65/NEX7).
Firmware taking forever and what has been done hasn’t don’t much. The A580s couple of hiccoughs could have easily been fixed with a firmware update but Sony again ignored A580 shooters here.
Apparently the A580 is a lot more solid bug wise than any of the new cameras out from what I read on it.
end of line.
SonyA77
4 months ago |Prior to 1.04 yes, the initial well documented release had completely the wrong firmware on it and caused no end of crashes due to the wrong version being installed at the factory.
With 1.04 I can take pictures just fine, for me it’s no more buggy than my A700. There are improvements that are required, but those aren’t “bugs” that cause it to stop working.
I doubt we’ll see A77 firmware for a long time, Sony have moved on to releasing new models and their firmware developers will be busy on those.
Bit crap really, but it’s just history repeating itself and all manufacturers are guilty of it.
end of line.