(SR3) A NEX-7 one minute hands-on report…(Zeiss with leaf shutter?)
I got a hands-on report made by one of my new sources. He saw the NEX-7 and Zeiss prototypes. The rumor is ranked with SR3 only because what he tested where prorotypes and might be a little bit different. For example I don’t knwo if what he saw was the final Zeiss version. My guess is that he tested a different version of the lens. Anyway, this is his text:
“I can tell you though that the NEX-7 feels good in the hand. I only got to use the camera for about a minute but the EVF is superb. It reminds me of what it’s like looking at an iPhone retina display. You simply can’t see the pixels because they are so small. I didn’t see any rainbow effects and the refresh rate was super fast. There is still a tiny bit of lag when panning but it’s much improved. I tested it inside a somewhat dark restaurant, performance may be better in good lighting. Autofocus with the 24mm is very fast. It seems its almost as fast as the m43rd’s cameras. Maybe just a tiny bit slower but the important thing is that for single autofocus is as fast as anybody would practically need it to be.
About the Zeiss lens: I’m told Sony spent a lot of time and effort trying to not make the lens too big without compromising quality. I haven’t seen image quality first hand but I’m told its typical zeiss quality. Beautiful colors and a high amount of natural contrast.
The Nex-7 is also going to be expensive because it has a customized sensor. Sony, I’m told, has struggled a bit with getting good corners because of the short registration distance. Sony originally planned for the NEX to be marketed at consumers and didn’t realize it would be a hit with enthusiast too. To combat the short registration distance, they put in some micro offset lenses. All lenses will benefit from this, including legacy glass so people will see improved performance with their rangefinder lenses.
The one real surprising news I can share with you is that the 24mm zeiss has a leaf shutter! I was very surprised to find this out but Sony is going to market this as the modern day rangefinder for street photography. I was told they are filming a commercial showing the evolution of the rangefinder into the NEX-7. It will be posted online in the coming months. It won’t be on tv because Sony doesn’t expect the average consumer to buy this camera, they believe the 3 and 5 series is for them.
I was told that the 3million dot evf will make manual focusing a bit better as well.
I had my X100 with me and I can tell you that the X100 vs NEX-7+24mm Zeiss is going to be a tremendous fight. The NEX is quieter than the X100 because you can hear the servo motor on the X100 while the Zeiss motor is dead silent.
You should tell your readers to hold off on buying the X100. I’m seriously contemplating selling my X100. I still prefer the OVF to the NEX EVF but overallt he NEX seems super impressive. The NEX-7 still has the same tilt screen which is useful for shooting from the hip.”
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources (60-80% the rumor is correct)
SR5=almost certainly correct!
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Comment from John W Hession: What is OSS? Don't recognize the acrony...
Comment from Clyde: If the Zeiss truly is a leaf shutter, th...
Comment from xiao: "The NEX-7 still has the same tilt scree...
Comment from clear: Admin, will the Nex-7 have a tilt screen...
WyldRage
10 months ago |Did I read that right: the leaf shutter is inside the 24mm Zeiss lens?
Apparently, the fix for rangefinder lenses is already inside the NEX-C3, according to this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1030741/1#9793822
If the same performance is found in the NEX-7, it only makes me want to buy the camera even more.
Raul S.
10 months ago |Impressive what Sony did with their sensors…thanks for sharing that info.
B
10 months ago |It’s too bad he didn’t comment on the size/weight of the zeiss prototype!
Pacman
10 months ago |3rd paragraph:
“About the Zeiss lens: I’m told Sony spent a lot of time and effort trying to not make the lens too big without compromising quality.”
C
10 months ago |I’m curious about the shutter sound of the nex7. is it as loud as the nex5 on ?
Erational
10 months ago |It’s just a shame they couldn’t do OSS on this Zeiss.
But, I am surprised about the Micromirrors, it’s obvious now that Sony is gunning for the X100. That is a step up in quality I wasn’t expecting. I’m sure Sony knows the interchangeable-lens Fuji X300 is on it’s way in 2012 and this is Sony’s attempt to stay on top of the mirrorless heap. If this is true, it is impressive.
Paul
10 months ago |True; lack of OSS kills the Zeiss for video shooters (or in any case, those video shooters who will admit that they need it for shot versatility). Bad move.
FullFrame NEX (24x36)!
10 months ago |OSS is not a big loss, just increase the ISO speed. Problem solved. The camera can shoot up to ISO 16,000+.
Anonymous
10 months ago |NO. High ISO and image stabilization will ALWAYS be better than just high ISO alone.
Raul S.
10 months ago |Usually Zeiss doens’t like making modifications to their lenses with things like AF or OSS…at least they let manufacturers to put AF on their Zeiss lenses…
John W Hession
10 months ago |What is OSS? Don’t recognize the acronym
Parci
10 months ago |Am I missing something or Sony has the shutter inside the lenses? Because I am pretty sure there is a standard shutter in that NEX-7 body, so that would make two shutters suddenly? Doesn’t sound too reasonable. Same goes for offset microlenses: what happens with lenses that don’t need them?
Steve
10 months ago |This would only be an issue for longer tele lenses, but it doesn’t look like Sony is focusing on these type of lenses for the NEX mount.
ieR
10 months ago |its kinda dont make sense to have sharp corner for tele…well, usually tele has a much ‘shallow’ dof, and usually ppl frame subject not in corners, so, not really an issue,perhaps it will boost better bokeh? lol.
emarsh
10 months ago |What are the advantages to a leaf shutter lens? Are they more silent? Faster shutter speeds? Thank you.
Richard
10 months ago |Extremely quiet, near silent in the best. Flash sync speeds above 1/250, all the way up to the highest shutter speed (I think). Less vibrations from the shutter.
Don Cox
10 months ago |Yes, a leaf shutter gives flash sync right up to its maximum speed.
There have been other cameras with a shutter in the body and also the option of one or two lenses with leaf shutters for flash. The internal shutter would be left open while such a lens was in use.
nopt
10 months ago |Correct, the Leica S2 for example. It has a shutter like normal, but then some of the lenses are available as leaf shutter versions.
Geert
10 months ago |“Flash sync speeds above 1/250″
Add a PC flash sync socket and it could rock with studio strobes, or am I dreaming too much?
The existance of a leaf shutter in an E-mount lens would ask for a built-in viewfinder.
lean
10 months ago |Extremely silent, like Ricoh GXR.
Richard
10 months ago |One of the big questions for me was going to be if they could improve of the sound it makes. I honestly didn’t/don’t expect a leaf shutter, as that would almost be too much to ask for, just if they could work on making the in-body shutter much quieter… but if this is a leaf shutter, that would be really exciting.
ronnbot
10 months ago |This would explain why the Zeiss lens is relatively huge. Also, if it is a real leaf shutter, then the focal-plane shutter (inside the body) will not be in use and remain open when the Zeiss lens is mounted? Are there going to be other lenses with built-in shutters than the NEX-7 can control? How interesting.
FullFrame NEX (24x36)!
10 months ago |The Zeiss 24mm lens is a Sonnar design. Planar’s are gaussian, generally medium focal length like a 50mm. Distagon’s are wide angle lenses that are reverse telephoto in design. Sonnar’s are generally longer focal lengths, like an 85mm. The Sonnar design produces the best bokeh out of the three aforementioned builds. This 24mm should be stunning. It’s on my purchase list.
Sony please make a FullFrame NEX!!!
Carl
10 months ago |Bokeh doesn’t depend that much on optical structure. The Zeiss with the best bokeh to my eyes is the N mount 85/1.4, which is a Planar.
Jinx
10 months ago |I think the Leaf Shutter needs clarification. He specifies it’s in the Lens.. Does this mean the camera detects the lens type and utilizes the built-in shutter or does it mean that both in-camera shutter and lens shutter fire at the same time?
Richard
10 months ago |What would be the point in both firing at the same time? I’m not sure that’s even possible. I think it would be safe to assume as you say, the camera detects a leaf shutter lens and brings up the shutter in the camera. That is the only way I can see it working.
WyldRage
10 months ago |There would be no point in having two shutters working at the same time, so it will probably disable the focal-plane shutter.
I also just read a bit about leaf shutters: they HAVE to be in the lens, and they’re not what I expected them to be. Learning is fun!
Richard
10 months ago |Were you picturing twigs and branches flying about?
WyldRage
10 months ago |Nico
10 months ago |Wow, I did not think about that… Really interesting, Zeiss made this for the Hasselblad 500cm a long time ago !
Nice post Andrea !
extra|ordinary
10 months ago |EPIC!!! …if this is true.
I have been really intrigued and hopeful about the NEX-7 since we first started hearing details about it. However, I have been dying to know if it was to come with a leaf shutter or not. Having owned the NEX-5 for a brief time, I was always irritated by how loud the shutter was.
The customized sensor sounds awesome…again, if true. It would bring new life to the 16/2.8 pancake lens. Perhaps it has been a sharper lens all along.
emarsh
10 months ago |I do see a vision developing for this Nex-7, in regards to the size of the 24mm lens, and the inclusion of the full size flash hotshoe.No wonder the lens is large if it has the leaf shutter in it. This would make a great camera to use outside in bright sunlight, utilizing the leaf shutter lens high flash sync speed. I see schneider has leaf shutter lenses that have a 1/1600 sync speed, so this Zeiss can probably do something similar, then the Nex -7 would be capable of excellent action freezing shots outside or in a backlit situation. No? Ya learn something new everyday.
Paul
10 months ago |I suspect that the redesigned sensor might have more to do with the horrifyingly awful aliasing/moire effects of the NEX-3/5 sensors, especially when shooting video.
stev
10 months ago |this makes me want to wait for the NEX 7 now… to bad I have to wait tell the end of the year
Allan
10 months ago |Hello
Can someone tell what is exactly a leaf shutter, advantage of it, and if it could be a problem of compatibility with the nex-5 with the 24 ?
thanks a lot !
WyldRage
10 months ago |wikipedia
Futile
10 months ago |Drool!
This is all sounding very hopeful. Even if its not real, I hope Sony is watching, cause this is what the people want!
Will
10 months ago |I wish he had noticed if the screen tilts or swings out.
xiao
10 months ago |“The NEX-7 still has the same tilt screen which is useful for shooting from the hip.”
emarsh
10 months ago |See, one of the problems I have when I am outside and trying to photograph birds, is they always seem to be in front of the Sun,lol. So, this leaf shutter,along with my f42 flash, should increase my chances of correcting this backlit situation. Not 100% of the time, but in certain situations that were not possible before on the older cams like a100. These older cams just didn’t have the high enough flash sync speed. Am I in the ballpark on this?
Richard
10 months ago |That’s more about flash power I think. Your F42 can HSS all the way up to the top shutter speed, but power runs out long before that. That’s why a lot of wildlife folk use flash extender devices infront of the flash. Plus, buttom line, all conventional SLR lenses use the regular in-camera shutters, and so all such top wildlife photos come from this… so a leaf shutter isn’t letting them down. I think you just need to experiment with techniques and lighting.
emarsh
10 months ago |ok, Flash extender, thank you Richard.
emarsh
10 months ago |I mean a 24mm lens isn’t what you’d use for photographing birds, but,theoretically, this would work on a telephoto lens if it had a leaf shutter I’d think. But this 24mm lens could still do well with backlit situation and a good flash, is what I’m arriving at.
Lars
10 months ago |Is the Nex 9 Fullframe ?
(Leica M9)
King Renas
10 months ago |quote “Nex-7 is also going to be expensive because it has a customized sensor.”
Damn…. I’m going to have to sell everything to buy this camera.
Kiril
10 months ago |I think Sony will be surprised with the number of sold NEX-7 cameras if they keep the price in some reasonable range like 1000 Euro.
My feeling is Sony should really push the NEX forward. The system has incredible potential. Especially if they somehow make NEX-9 with full frame next year. This will blow away nikon, canon, olympus, panasonic and Leica combined.
Nico
10 months ago |quote “Nex-7 is also going to be expensive because it has a customized sensor.”
I’d prefer spend more money for a FF sensor than another “customized” aps-c sensor !!!
Richard
10 months ago |So how much more would a customized full-frame sensor cost in a NEX body if they’re struggling to get an APS-C sensor to perform well?
One step at a time.
Nico
10 months ago |you’re right Richard… But it’ll depend on the final price, wait and see !
The Nex-5 sensor is already a good performer even with Leica lenses on it… We already have Aps-c sensors in the Nex-3/Nex-c3 and Nex-5 and maybe Nex-5N/NEx-7…
I think it’s not in the Sony interest (making money) to make a FF now, it’s better to sold more Aps-c bodies before !
I always hope to be wrong here…
Raul S.
10 months ago |FF NEX development depends on how well the NEX-7 sells…if they can sell an APS-C NEX for around 1000USD or a bit more, then they can expect to sell a FF NEX around 1800USD… And now that I think about it…maybe NEX FF will come after the expected FF dSLR or dSLT on next year (whatever they decide to do with their Alpha line) AND theeen, we will start to see rumors about a FF Alpha NEX using a tweaked FF sensor based on those cameras.
But for now, the more I see the NEX-7 picture with the Zeiss, the more I want it >_<
Nico
10 months ago |+1 but we should always ask for more to get what we want !
Lotus
10 months ago |but since you can’t get a full frame sensor in a package anywhere near this small, a FF isn’t really an alternative.
usch
10 months ago |Does the image circle of the existing E-mount lenses cover full frame? Otherwise you’d need all new lenses, too.
Nico
10 months ago |I use a Nex-5 and I’ve never had an E-mount lens !..
I use adapters with Leica and others manual lenses that cover Full frame.. You know, a lot of people do that !
Why do you think that Sony make so many Nex bodies and only a few E-mount lenses for an interchangeable lens system !!!
usch
10 months ago |Yes, that’s what you and I would do … I am also hoping to revive my old MD mount lenses someday (hopefully the opening of the adapter is large enough so that it doesn’t cause vignetting). But Sony can’t release a supposed NEX flagship without a single original lens, so this would be an issue even if everybody is only going for the adapters.
And knowing whether the existing lenses would cover FF might also be an indicator for Sony’s future roadmap.
emarsh
10 months ago |Can minolta md lenses be used on the nex cameras? If so, do Minolta md lenses have to be used only in full manual mode? This is something I am not clear about yet. I know everybody is using various brands of old manual lenses on the nex, but never hear about minolta manual lenses on the nex.
Nico
10 months ago |usch “And knowing whether the existing lenses would cover FF might also be an indicator for Sony’s future roadmap”
Yes yes, but I don’t have the answer….
But again, do you think they’ll make a mirrorless Nex-7 for more than $1000 to use it only with a good 24mm 1.8 and 3 others low grade lenses ??
usch
10 months ago |“But again, do you think they’ll make a mirrorless Nex-7 for more than $1000 to use it only with a good 24mm 1.8 and 3 others low grade lenses ??” — Heh … there are many decisions from Sony where I wonder what they have been thinking.
For example that you still cannot officially buy a NEX body alone, without any lens. You need to find a dealer who is willing to take a kit apart and sell body and lens separately. That’s not quite what I would do to encourage third party lens owners to buy a NEX.
Nico
10 months ago |Yes… It’s a good example !…
Allan
10 months ago |Somoene can give a little explanation of the leaf shutter and is it usable with the nex 5 or probably only with futur nex-7 ?
GH
10 months ago |Nope, and imagine how big the new NEX Zeiss lens would be if it covered a full frame sensor. The Zeiss 24/2 for full frame still dwarfs it.
FullFrame NEX (24x36)!
10 months ago |Sony is going to stomp on M4/3 and other mirrorless cameras.
Please make an E-Mount FullFrame NEX, Sony!
john
10 months ago |Soooo….
The sensor on the NEX7 and A77 will be different even though both are 24MP?
Almond
10 months ago |Same sensor
john
10 months ago |Same sensor but extra micro lenses?
Like Leica M9
“The Nex-7 is also going to be expensive because it has a customized sensor. Sony, I’m told, has struggled a bit with getting good corners because of the short registration distance. Sony originally planned for the NEX to be marketed at consumers and didn’t realize it would be a hit with enthusiast too. To combat the short registration distance, they put in some micro offset lenses. All lenses will benefit from this, including legacy glass so people will see improved performance with their rangefinder lenses.”
So same but different
GJH2
10 months ago |If I just wanted one lens I think I would prefer the X100, which I imagine will cost far less than what the Nex 7 plus Zeiss will cost. The X100 is much better looking IMO and also far more compact. The thing is, I wouldn’t want to be limited to just one lens. So for me the Nex 7 is a more appealing camera.
SonyA77
10 months ago |“There is still a tiny bit of lag when panning but it’s much improved.” Hmm, this is a bit concerning.
Kyle Batson
10 months ago |Wow. If true, I’m going to have to sell my car or something to buy this camera/lens combination. A beautiful 24mm zeiss on a 24mp sensor with a high-res EVF and a nearly-silent shutter? Perfection!
Murphy
10 months ago |The constant comparison with the Fuji X100 is beyond me. The Fuji is a camera with a fixed lens, not a system. I don´t think many people are trying to decide between a X100 or a Nex 7. The Fuji will sell mostly by its looks and minimalistic concept (and image quality sure seems good). The Nex7 looks cool with a small lens, already a bit odd with most E-mount lenses and just wrong with a converted A mount tele. Sony (or third party makers) will need to make some smart, small lenses for the E mount fast, otherwise the whole idea of being extremely compact is moot.
nopt
10 months ago |Is it really that difficult to see? The x100 and NEX-7 + 24mmZeiss combo have more than a few things in common. Relatively compact slab bodies, no dslr hump, viewfinder in the corner, dials for shutter-speed/aperture, lenses with near identical focal length. They’re both rangefinder-style bodies, of which there is a scarcity in modern, digital form. If this latest rumor pans out it would make the 7Zeiss combo as quiet as the x100, so that just adds fuel to the fire. I believe there will be a good deal of overlap between potential buys of these cameras.
And if you think there are a lot of comparisons between the two now, just wait ’til the NEX-7 is out.
Steve
10 months ago |One big difference is that the x100 can fit in your coat pocket. You could try this with the NEX7 and 16mm f2.8, but that is a different focal length and one stop slower.
nopt
10 months ago |Yeah I suppose that will make a difference to many people. Just for sh*ts & giggles I did a quick hack-job of the 16mm on the NEX-7 body:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ed8vgp.jpg
nopt
10 months ago |And while we’re at it, a size comparison with the NEX-5. The 7 body actually looks pretty compact still, a bit surprising.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2l9t5za.jpg
Erational
10 months ago |Cranking up ISO isn’t the answer. Are the newest cameras far better than cameras of old at high ISOs? Hell yeah ! Will these cameras have better high ISO abilities ? Yes, they will. But all this cranking up the ISO to crazy heights is for naught, these cameras can’t perform miracles. You do not want to use the mile-high ISO’s unless your shooting with the MultiShot JPEG mode. Have had the A55 and A500 and still there is nothing better than low ISO’s. ISO 1600 even with a great RAW processor still shows fine grain to us pixel-peepers. Personally, I like to take the camera OFF the tripod every once in awhile. The only suitable lens for that would be the 50mm F/1.8 OSS E-mount. Still, the Zeiss is an exciting development.
hanugro
10 months ago |good high ISO will kind of make a ‘slower’ lens ‘faster’. Granted you can’t get shallow depth of field like a fast lens, but now, at least, it is possible use 70-300 for a sport/indoor lens.
Eric
10 months ago |“Sony originally planned for the NEX to be marketed at consumers and didn’t realize it would be a hit with enthusiast too.”
I sometimes wonder if these camera companies do market research at all. I know internet forums aren’t exactly the best source, but it’s been clear to me for years that many many enthusiasts have wanted smaller high quality cameras. It’s as if as soon as digital arrived companies completely forgot that a number of us used to use small cameras in the film days. Range finders, small SLR’s like the Olympus OM series, and cameras like the Yashica T4 were quite popular. Cameras the size of the A77 are great if you don’t have to leave the studio with them, but for all other uses give me something the size of the NEX-7.
stev
10 months ago |I toltaly agree with you… Ive been looking at a compact system for a long time… I think they dont know photographers that well
Gabriel
10 months ago |Me too, my OM 10 is a quite small and light SLR, and of course it’s a full frame. Why it’s not possible nowday to do the same with a FF sensor puzzle me.
Mike Dougherty
10 months ago |Will auto focus operate on the A77 while shooting at 12 FPS. Mu A580 has a top FPS of 7 FPS but will only continue focusing at 5 FPS.
Asdrubal Briceno
10 months ago |Sorry, according to the NEX crop factor I guess that this Zeiss 24mm lens is equivalent to a 36mm lens (35mm format). Am I right? somebody know what angle of view this lens has mounted on the NEX-7?
hanugro
10 months ago |Yes, the angle of view will be like a 36mm on FF.
physica
10 months ago |“It won’t be on tv because Sony doesn’t expect the average consumer to buy this camera”
That means the prices will be very high ?
yurilee
10 months ago |Dose the Leaf shutter mean….it’s finally physical shutter for video shooting?
Bastian
10 months ago |Searching for the knowledge of an expert :
Can the leaf shutter be used with the current nex-5 ??
Jennzhen
10 months ago |Likely not.
Follow-up question … does it mean NEX-5 and lower camera owner should not buy 24mm Zeiss, since we’ll be paying extra for something that can’t be used? Not sure how expensive is the additional leaf shutter.
Bastian
10 months ago |yes jennzhen ! you right !
we probably have to think about it, before buying this lens !
too sad… i was waiting the zeiss for so long …
Nick
10 months ago |After a long time wanting something better than my compact, I’ve been thinking of getting an A580, but now I’m wondering, will the NEX-7 be able to do everything that it can do?
Matt
10 months ago |Fight against the X100? You buy an X100 for the optical viewfinder. This doesn’t have one. Very different categories.
Richard
10 months ago |Pretty easy to put a OVF on a NEX if you want to. The comparison between X100 and NEX-7 is very straight forward, choose to ignore it if you will.
CRYO
10 months ago |With leaf shutter, then possibly this zeiss + Nex 7 can do real fast shutter speed
Wide open the lens in bright condition without any ND 
Any chance Nex 7 will have SSS?
Matt
10 months ago |Adding a viewfinder does not give you any information about focus or exposure, making it kind of pointless.
Anonymous
10 months ago |Why won’t this work the NEX-3/5 and NEX-7 only?
Bastian
10 months ago |I was waiting so long for the zeiss 24 mm for my nex-5 and now with this leaf shutter it sounds like it will not work with my camera (as it could…)
really dispointing !!!!
Sahaja
10 months ago |If the leaf shutter doesn’t work on the NEX5, I’m sure you will be able to leave the leaf shutter open and use the focal plane shutter in the camera body.
Doug
10 months ago |As far as I’m concerned, my decision whether to buy an NEX-7 depends on how well it performs at ISO 3200 and above. If it’s not at least as good as my X100 it’s a fail.
Alan
10 months ago |Admin, you’re wise to be cautious, this sounds implausible on a number of points.
Why go to the extra expense of a leaf shutter (advantages in flash synch, but reduced top speeds)? Presumably it would need to be locked open for video use? (anyone have knowledge of this?)
The customized sensor with micro lenses seems strange, as some lenses would perhaps benefit but others could be worse. In theory most benefit would be to physically shorter, wider angle lenses. What comes into this category other than the 16mm of known compromised size/quality? The 24mm is a fairly moderate WA and also quite big. Would there be much benefit of micro lenses?
I also wonder how much could be gathered from a one minute examination in a dark restaurant?
I am looking forward to this camera and lens though – I think it will make the system attractive to some serious users for the 1st time. The new 5N with add on viewfinder could be a winner too, as many will feel 16MP is enough for the sort of use this type of camera will be put to.
I welcome these coming releases but I think this report contains a helping of fantasy or speculation.
clear
10 months ago |Admin, will the Nex-7 have a tilt screen ? The specs mention a touchscreen but will it be tilt-able. Thanks.
Clyde
10 months ago |If the Zeiss truly is a leaf shutter, there is no reason it should not work on other NEX bodies. At most, a simple firmware upgrade would allow for this. Hasselblad has supported both types of lenses on a single body in the past. It’s a simple matter of timing the camera shutter to run slower than the lens shutter.
The leaf shutter will cause the viewfinder to black out for a moment during exposure. We should also expect it to increase lag time before exposure is made because it must first close, then open, then close again, then open again for EVF to illuminate viewfinder. Surely it will be switchable on and off. It’s not needed for most photography other than high speed flash syncro… that usually being creative portraiture. This will kill the need for having High Speed Synch flash units that pulse and lose a lot of power just to get the high synch. Therefor I’m very excited to try this with my trusty old and very powerful Sunpak 622 Super Pro’s.