(SR3) Smoke about a third Alpha camera (to be announced along A65 and A77)
The image on top shows the last Sony camera with optical viewfinder. The Sony A580 (Click here to see the cam).
I finally recovered from my long trip on the dolomites. It has been an amazing experience but I don’t want to talk with you about that 
Last week you saw the very first picture of the A77 and A65 production models. But there is also a rumor that is “work in progress”, something I am not sure yet but I want to share here anyway (with an SR3 value -> see rumor classification at the bottom of the post). A week ago a known source told me that Sony may changed the decision to release translucent cameras only. He said there could be an optical viewfinder DSRL announced along the A77 and A65. And yesterday another source told me that there should be a third Alpha camera announced along the A77 and A65.
Now, I don’t know if there is a correlation between the two rumors, please if you are an optical viewfinder fan don’t be to excited yet. Is till do believe there will be no new OVF camera. But I do hope that after reading this post my trusted sources will tell me more about that mysterious third Alpha camera.
Anyway, I know that most of our readers are still hoping that Sony will continue to release OVF cameras. But I do believe EVF are the future and solution like the hybrid viewfinder on the Fuji X100 (Click here to see that cam) are not the future. All depends from the EVF quality which has to be improved (current EVF quality is insufficient). And I think also Canon and Nikon will go this route sooner or later!
P.S.: Those are the links to the latest OVF cameras:
Last APS-C camera was the Sony A580 at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay
Last FF camera was the Sony A850 at Amazon, Adorama, B&H, J&R, eBay (now discontinued)
Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
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Marc
11 months ago |Releasing a conventional DSLR with an OVF along with the A65 & A77 makes some sense and would satisfy the OVF-enthusiasts that wouldn’t buy an SLT model with an EVF.
But I totally agree with Andrea, EVF is the future and sooner or later, Sony will stop offering models with an OVF (at least for the entry and advanced models).
I can’t wait to read more details leaking about the A65 – since the A35 doesn’t have a tiltable LCD, I might want to order the A65 … I guess price will decide. $749/749€ ?
hanugro
11 months ago |Until there is dSLT that offer taking picture with the translucent mirror up (at least in single shoot priority mode), there will be always ppl that scream for OVF dSLR. I do believe that it make sense to release parallel OVF and EVF model, at least for the top of the range in APS and FF. Entry levl model should be dSLT and price very2 cheap.
Roger
11 months ago |I think Sony thinks sensor based phase detection would be easier. Once they finish that technology, the mirror will go away.
Vlad
11 months ago |I don’t think the translucent mirror in itself is the problem.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |well, for some people it certainly is. And it’s quite understandable – as far as 1/3 EV is none of a difference in 99,9% of cases you can get frustrated solely by the fact that you always loose it just because someone at Sony decided that they won’t make mirror flip up in a single shot mode.
There’s really not much of an excuse for it IMO. Mirror already can flip anyway – for cleaning the sensor.
Good that (at least in A55/33) you can remove it manually quite easily – makes life of astrophotographers much more of a pleasure.
hanugro
11 months ago |I think providing a dSLT that can provide translucent mirror up is a challenge. It is not as straight forward of using dSLR mirror box because:
1.remember that translucent mirror is not angle 45 degree like mirror in dSLR, in such the mirror might be longer than one that is used in dSLR.
2.I also believe that due to thinnest of translucent mirror compare with standard dSLR mirror, translucent mirror might not be able to stand continues flipping.
Providing it also defeat the purpose of dSLT of more compact and lighter camera.
Ideally, my dream camera will be the one who gives 3-5fps with translucent mirror flipping and 10+fps with mirror in the way. But realistically in near future, it will be nice if Sony just provide switch that make the mirror up just like mirror lock up situation (ie we have to manually tell the camera to up the translucent and camera will lock AF while in this mode). One single shoot flipping is the next step.
Also I think APS camera stand better chance to provide this mode than FF. IMHO, Sony should just release parallel product of OVF and EVF for the top end model with FF.
But I believe they can find a way if they want this feature. I believe in the old ‘minolta’ mind working for Sony now.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |1 & 2) Sony has already solved it – A900 got mechanism that moved the mirror up instead of flipping it. So you can move it (a little bit backwards and up) instead of flipping. If you’ll do it bit more slowly than in A900 than effects shouldn’t break the mirror (it isn’t glass anyway so that’s bit more difficult to break than mirrors in classical DSLRs are.
3) It won’t make SLT bigger. This camera already has a mechanism that flips the mirror (for sensor cleaning).
And keep in mind that you don’t need to flip the mirror with speed of 14 FPS – it’d be good enough to restore the Mirror Lock-Up with 10 seconds delay.
Neither of these defeat the purpose of dSLT – which is in most part good video and fast continuous shooting (and a small size as well as lower price as a side effect of the design).
reader
11 months ago |no video, no EVF…. Sony give us a simple but powerful Image capturing Alpha. A750??? oh yes…
Karel Anker
11 months ago |That would make sense. An a750 wihout the gimmicks of the new SLT cam’s. Perhaps they should use a body that would be about the same size of the a700, with only a newer sensor, processor and firmware. I would buy something like that instead of a slt-cam with a lot of movie and phase detection functions I probably never use.
*English isn’t my first language
Steve Jones
11 months ago |I suspect it would be relatively simple for Sony to produce an OVF camera using the mirror mechanism and pentaprism from the A700 with the new sensor and other electronics like GPS and the new dual-Bionz. Update the firmware and put some “new clothes” on it and this could be done without too much expenditure on research. More expensive would be to update the AF as it’s not as simple as adopting the SLT’s sensors.
Whether there would (or even could) improvements to mechanical performance, such as higher frame rates or quieter operation is debatable.
Mist
11 months ago |a780
Red
11 months ago |a920 >:)
Totalreader
11 months ago |3-layered sensor without AA-filter
please! please! please!
Hayami
11 months ago |Although I am a happy EVF user, after using A55 to shot pictures in a live concert, I still think OVF has its advantage or unless they can make a good hybrid VF. The noise is so bad and the body become so hot after 30 minutes of continuos photo shooting at ISO like 400-1600. But if you are using a OVF model, there wouldn’t be such issue. Therefore my original plan for the next DSLR would still be a OVF camera… if Sony don’t release any new OVF camera anymore, I would get one second hand…
Hayami
11 months ago |and after buying a OVF camera, the next one could be a EVF model again.
my camera upgrade plan takes 2-3 years anyway
Ashutosh
11 months ago |Thats some news. It seems sony is again going in aggressive mood! Good to know.
BTW any news on the full frame which you promised us
admin
11 months ago |Working on it! I am just i touch with soruces about that…
Carl
11 months ago |I have no problem with pentamirrors going the way of the dodo, as they always were a kludge to bring prices down, that didn’t offer anything in return (whereas at least porromirrors allow for interestingly compact form factors, for example). Pentaprisms on the other hand, are very pleasant things to look through and take photos with.
Sony keeping a pentaprism based model or two in their lineup would keep those who dislike EVFs (or at least, the current state of EVF technology) from jumping ship.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |“Sony keeping a pentaprism based model or two in their lineup would keep those who dislike EVFs (or at least, the current state of EVF technology) from jumping ship.”
- definitely true.
And those people are a group you’d like to keep as a company – people like this are usually from the “older generation” of shooters, and these tend to have money to spend on the lenses & accessories.
pancanikonpus
11 months ago |Nah! this is call conservation and not innovative! introduce a superb hybrid EVF will please major of the sony users even potentially draws more user to sony. why not?
if the automobil industry follow the imaging path, pathetic!
Carl
11 months ago |Just as sensible people don’t replace their camera every three months, sensible companies don’t replace their technology just because, either.
Instead they wait for something that’s meaningful better than what they’re using currently, then change.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |And isn’t that what Sony has done, Carl?
Carl
11 months ago |We’ll see. I’m certainly not going to be an apologist for anybody, but the logic or lack thereof of these things isn’t always immediately obvious without hindsight.
pancanikonpus
11 months ago |without innovative, waiting is nothing. innovative features soon or late will penetrate to every users. It rings improvement to the next level. without consistent innovative progress, don’t even to spell the word “change”. wait need time; change need effort, idea, time and real action!
perhaps canikon are good example to put at here
i wait u, u wait me, we both wait for more new user to come for 7D,600D, 60D or next year gives you 28mp, 30mp, higher fps, 150% OVF, 300% OVF, etc lol….. 
I like some companies approach so far like panasonic, olympus and sony. they have clear path to go. miniaturization or bring mid range high perform, at least they tried -not WAIT
Carl
11 months ago |I know everyone’s lining up to get a viewfinder with 300% coverage. Just think of all the practical uses it has.
Kalpurush :)
11 months ago |A fantastic news indeed (though it’s a SAR3).
Hope Sony will amazed us, again
Much thanks Andrea for the good news
The Lotus Eater
11 months ago |I’d be glad to see an A7xx with OVF, and would probably buy that over an SLT model, unless Sony have managed to get rid of ghosting caused by the translucent mirror.
Saying that, I really hope the AF accuracy is better than the A580. I had two copies of the A580 and both suffered from inconsistent AF issues, to the extent they were unusable with fast lenses. I returned both and gave up on the A580 and went back to my A700. Whether this was a design issue or they were simply badly calibrated because of poor quality control, I don’t know, but I refuse to send a brand new camera back to Sony for adjustment. They should be right first time out of the box.
Kalpurush :)
11 months ago |Andrea, any confirmaion regarding the release date of a77/a65 yet?
Is it mid or late August?
SONYBOY68
11 months ago |late august
admin
11 months ago |Late August. Will have the exact date soon
pancanikonpus
11 months ago |clever admin, make me cannot count down
wakaka
Carl
11 months ago |Never stopped you from trying, though.
SONYBOY68
11 months ago |Maybe Sony Alpha A45:
a version of the new Sony Alpha A35 with tilt screen
Kiril
11 months ago |Could it be the NEX-7 with telemeter OVF?
or NEX-5C (C as in colorful)
SONYBOY68
11 months ago |No Sony DSLR.
In the future only beautiful Sony DSLT
araru
11 months ago |A new HOPE
Clifton
11 months ago |I dont see much weight to this, Sony have stated they will not release any more OVF cameras, they have their reasons for that and i see no reason for that to change. Quite a few old skool shooters have displayed a little unhappiness at the decision but the general reception has been a wait n see attitude and the reviews and performance of the A33/55 have generally been favorable.
I think for sony to continue to grow in the camera field, they do need to separate themselves from the competition a little, they will never do any significant damage to the OVF market owned by Canon and Nikon, so defining their own market is a wise move. I think overall, their evlopment, spending and advertising should be in one field, the EVF.
David
11 months ago |Honestly, with the tiny squinty dark.viewfinders in the a500 and a580, you might as well go to an EVF. I just got an a850 and the difference in viewfinder between my 580 and a850 is amazing.
When I go back to the a580 I feel appalled by how dark it is. At least EVF gets you a bright, large viewfinder. Even better if you put a histogram and some grid lines in there!
Ivars
11 months ago |Good Point! I have not upgraded my A700 because of this and stupid flip out screens(which protrudes too much outside the body)of all other Alphas except A55/A33. Waiting for A65/A77.
SONYBOY68
11 months ago |++1
savic
11 months ago |Ovf vs evf = film vs digital. At first film was bether but now….
savic
11 months ago |Oups better……
rob
11 months ago |if this is the last dslr Sony holders 90% buy the Nikon
Carl
11 months ago |Sony Alpha, the brand for pessimists.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |I don’t think so, Rob.
SonyA77
11 months ago |@rob I don’t think you understand the market that Sony are going after. They will never convert canikon users to Sony and they will always lose existing users to canikon, so why bother trying to satisfy them? Instead, they are going after new users in a new SLT and NEX market.
New users don’t have any preconceived hang-ups about using an EVF. In fact they are so used to using the rear LCD on their compacts, they find it funny that you have to look through a viewfinder at all.
If you don’t like EVF, then swap brands now. Sony will not miss you as they have plenty of people buying the A3x/A5x series WITH EVF.
steven
11 months ago |Why do people think that sony are trying to convert canon or nikon users?
Can anyone here name a single Nikon user who has swapped to Canon or Sony? or canon user who swapped?
Sony are doing this for new users, but forgetting the people who have bought into their system.
If I had of known that Sony were going to EVF down the track I wouldn’t have bought a sony in the first place.
Sony do care and will care if use OVF fans swap, they’ll miss me as my money will go to Nikon
Sky_walker
11 months ago |“Can anyone here name a single Nikon user who has swapped to Canon or Sony? or canon user who swapped?”
I can name at least 3.
“Sony are doing this for new users, but forgetting the people who have bought into their system.”
It’s not about forgetting, it’s about strategy. Sony strategy was to slowly build stable photographic ecosystem from ground up. Who suffered most from it were former pro Minolta shooters, as Sony left them with no option to go for a veeery long time (A700 and A900 were short breaks from it made to increase entry-level sales). We’ve moved from releases of very-entry-level cameras (A200), to low-midrange (A450) and midrange (550/580), now we’ll gonna see high-end APS-C and eventually the Pro Full Frame cameras. After that Sony should regularly release cameras from each branch just as Canon and Nikon does. “You build system from the roots, not from celling” as on Sony guy told me back in 2009.
If you’d listen to what Sony says – it’d be obvious to you that it’s the way Sony creates system since the days of A500 when Sony folks started to tell about this to people around them.
Tony
10 months ago |Me. I use nikons d3 and just sold my d3x last week. I use canons 550d for it’s video only.. I don’t like it’s stills at all but it’s video is 1st class.
Now about this EVF thing, is that it didn’t work for a student at one of my studio lighting workshops. The evf was completely black… For studio lights you must be in manual mode – like 1/125th at f8 with iso 100/200. Now all canon and nikon dslr users had no problems with just model lamps to focus with.. But Sony guy couldn’t see anything but black screen.. Those manual settings are metered for f8 from the studio flashes .. Anyone know what he didn’t do/set/menu options to gain up the screen but leaving exposure settings as above??? Thanks in advance because if Sony don’t fix they’ll never replace any studio lighting shooters
Tony
10 months ago |Me. I use nikons d3 and just sold my d3x last week. I use canons 550d for it’s video only.. I don’t like it’s stills at all but it’s video is 1st class.
Now about this EVF thing, is that it didn’t work for a student at one of my studio lighting workshops. The evf was completely black… For studio lights you must be in manual mode – like 1/125th at f8 with iso 100/200. Now all canon and nikon dslr users had no problems with just model lamps to focus with.. But Sony guy couldn’t see anything but black screen.. Those manual settings are metered for f8 from the studio flashes .. Anyone know what he didn’t do/set/menu options to gain up the screen but leaving exposure settings as above? Thanks in advance because if Sony don’t fix they’ll never replace any studio lighting shooters
Tony
10 months ago |Me. I use nikons d3 and just sold my d3x last week. I use canons 550d for it’s video only.. I don’t like it’s stills at all but it’s video is 1st class.
Now about this EVF thing, is that it didn’t work for a student at one of my studio lighting workshops. The evf was completely black… For studio lights you must be in manual mode – like 1/125th at f8 with iso 100/200. Now all canon and nikon dslr users had no problems with just model lamps to focus with.. But Sony guy couldn’t see anything but black screen.. Those manual settings are metered for f8 from the studio flashes .. Anyone know what he didn’t do/set/menu options to gain up the screen but leaving exposure settings as above? Thanks in advance because if Sony don’t fix they’ll never replace any studio lighting shooters.
Hawk
11 months ago |How about a poll? “If you have to choose between SLT a77 and DSLR a770, which one would you buy assuming that both cameras are identical except mirror/VF design?”
Frank
11 months ago |+1 DSLR!!!
Sky_walker
11 months ago |The issue is that they wouldn’t be identical. OVF would be more expensive and has worse video as well as (most likely) slower FPS.
Never the less – having two cameras on market would make it a very tough decision for many people. But I’d be glad from it.
Carl
11 months ago |Optical viewfinders are more expensive, so otherwise identical cameras wouldn’t have identical pricetags.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |yep. Especially if you’ll consider that these pentaprisms will be produced specifically for a single camera model – what gonna make it even more expensive than it’s to Canon or Nikon who regularly use pentaprisms in their cameras getting nice discounts for bulk orders from their parts suppliers.
PhotoNut
11 months ago |What are you talking about. The pentaprisms and such are not made by Sony itself. Just like with the shutter and other mechanical stuff with tight tolerances, they are made by 3rd party suppliers such as Seiko. Sony SLT EVFs are made by Epson.
Even the “Bionz” image processor in Alpha DSLRs is not made by Sony but by a Fujitsu subsidiary.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |Yep. That’s why it won’t be a cheap business. You order shitton of EVFs – you get nice discounts. You order few Pentaprisms – you get no low discount – add to this the fact that pentaprism+focusing screen is already more expensive than EVFs and you are done.
So… what are you up to PhotoNut? Noone said that Sony makes everything in-house.
Carl
11 months ago |I really don’t think it’ll cost Sony that much more to OEM a pentaprism from Cosina or somesuch than to make it themselves. Prisms are not electronics, and don’t follow the rules of the semiconductor industry or Moore’s Law, they’re just cleaved and cemented bits of optical glass. The per unit cost is much the same whether they order 10,000 or 1,000,000.
SVOR
11 months ago |JFYI Fujitsu is an ASIC vendor, they physically make many chips for Sony but the design work is done by Sony engineers and the IPR is all Sony. Basically the more they use the cheaper the unit cost becomes. I am guessing that the situation is similar for penta-prisms which will be specified for a particular camera or camera family and so there is an up-front design cost and a per-unit cost. Re-using an existing design would certainly make sense from a cost point of view.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |You may be right, but how do you know these things?
Hawk
11 months ago |True. Poll may have a bit longer descriptions which will point out differences between SLT and DSLR (price, video, fps). Personally I’d gladly pay more for DSLR version of a700 replacement.
SonyA77
11 months ago |If the OVF was 100% coverage, then that certainly would make for an interesting decision. I don’t care about faster FPS and Video, so it would be purely based on the viewfinders. That would be a tough choice indeed!
The problem with a poll at this time is that nobody has seen the EVF in the A77, so the poll would be skewed towards the OVF as people already know the pros/cons of an OVF and would simply err on the safe side and vote OVF.
If reviews of the EVF were favourable, I would have to have both cameras side-by-side to make a decision.
my december
11 months ago |If the rumor is true, hopefully it will be a high end OVF APSC (A750, etc), not some cheap entry level. I definitely get that, instead of SLT.
Frank
11 months ago |DSLR!!! +1
giovanni
11 months ago |It is some kind of sad that Sony will miss the release date 7/7 .. for the a77 ..
Deep in me i’m still counting
Sorry for bad English
fotowolf61
11 months ago |A65 is interesting if it has micro AF adjustments like the A850/A900 or better than these bodies. I own a A850 and would never buy a camera body that has no micro AF changable by the camera user. Also the new AF module with 11 cross sensors is very welcome. Sensor resolution is less important.
Ivars
11 months ago |+1 for micro AF adjustments in A65
twoomy
11 months ago |Any possibility that the 3rd rumored camera would be the new full-frame A920?
The A850 is retired, some say the A900 is retired as well. Admin, I know that you don’t give much credence to the rumor of an A920 coming soon, but that rumor has it as the last full-frame with an OVF which sort of matches this rumor. That would be exciting news to me if it was actually true.
Gunnar
11 months ago |Very unlikely.
Sony representatives have several times said that their next fullfram cameras (two models at least, it seems) woun’t come soon – they will come next year. Sorry.
Gunnar
11 months ago |Correct spelling would have been “fullframe”, of course.
Alfonso Cuitiño
11 months ago |Plug the HDMI out to a pair of virtual reality glasses. The ultimate viewfinder!
Steve
11 months ago |I really believe soon we will see a system that incorporates a high resolution display to and to a headset using HDMI. You can easily do that with SLT and would solve many problems and would be jumped-on by professionals.
I think this could be hacked together right now.
Might be a bit weird walking around downtown doing street photography!
Carl
11 months ago |I think being able to send the picture to my smartphone over WiFi would be more handy. Even more so if I could use it to trip the shutter too.
Actually, one of the earliest medium format digital backs (I forgot whether it was Phase One or Leaf) had a crude form of tethering to an Compaq PDA years ago. Technology before its time.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |This kind of thing needs to happen, and will, I expect.
Carl
11 months ago |Yes, I agree. All the required technology is there pretty much already, excepting possibly the bandwidth over n-WiFi to stream that much video information in real time.
However, given the current state of Sony Ericsson, I can’t see Sony being first to do it somehow. Also, if they only offered support for iOS and Android, that would be extremely frustrating.
butch
11 months ago |since im happy with my A330 sept for no HDR or video (more MP would not hurt it) if the A65 doesn’t have the better EVF i might just wait (still need to see how the A55 EVF does panning )
other thoughts NEX pro
back before i got the A330 i wished i could have a DSC-V1 with interchangeable lens. the size was good for me it had video and the night shot (night vision)
Steve
11 months ago |I realize that EVF is the future.
It’s just not cost effective to make optical viewfinders
I don’t own a SLT yet but did have an opportunity to use one briefly. It was one of those situations all of us run into; you are at some tourist site an someone wants you to snap a photograph of him and his wife standing in front of some tree.
The camera was an a33 and the ambulant lighting was poor with a great deal of glare and bright sunlight at the camera location shooting into a more shaded scene.
How I quickly missed putting the bright optical viewfinder of my a850 to my eye
I’m sure the new a77 will be better, but I’m not so sure that professional photographers are going to rush-out and replace the OVF yet for EVF cameras so I think it a good idea for Sony to release one more generation of OVF camera.
I would like to see an a950 with all of the ISO and other killer specs of the a77 but with a 40 plus MP sensor and a OVF
Zstan
11 months ago |Hmmm at least Sony users have things to look forward each day as compared to our canikon counter parts who have almost no idea what’s in the future for them (based on what I read at canikon rumors).
Steve
11 months ago |As someone who has been reading this site for a year now and as a photographer that has been a Minolta/Sony user for over 40 years, over this last year only one product release has been an interest to me as a purchase.
The Zeiss 24mm/f2 lens
So, when you say that Sony users have much more to look forward to than Canon/Nikon all I can say is that I’m still waiting and hopeful that someday all of the rumors will turn into shipping products.
Carl
11 months ago |I’m cut from a similar cloth, but can’t claim to have anywhere near as illustrious a history with Minolta products (though I can vaguely remember puzzling over an X-570′s metering system as a wee tot…). But while Sony have plenty of failings and make plenty of missteps as a company, their sensor designs in the last few years have been superb. Of course, one could be just as excited about that if one is a Nikon or Pentax user given the ubiquity of Sony’s sensors, but I’m quite happy that I can continue to use my Minolta glass with them and not be forced to change. The grass is much greener as a Minolta refugee than it is for Kyocera/Contax and Olympus ones, at least.
So if we got another generation of full frame cameras with an OVF to keep me going for another say four years, I’d call that quite acceptable. I’ll worry about the distant future closer to the time.
acolyte
11 months ago |Haha.. pushing announcement to late August allows them to finish some last minute development/testing..
David
11 months ago |^^ correct.
We are a tiny subset of users. By the very fact we are visiting a website based on rumours about our camera manufacturer shows that we are not average. It would be ridiculous of Sony to listen to us.
The vast majority of people want entry level dslrs.. something better than their P&S but they aren’t chased about pro features, fast flash sync speeds or AF microadjustment. They want simple, good quality pictures. That’s why the entry level alphas and the NEX series are so popular.
Sky_walker
11 months ago |We’re not really talking here about “vast majority”. A77 isn’t targeted to vast majority of users, so aren’t the Zeiss lenses nor Full Frame cameras. Never the less these smaller markets exists and companies such as Sony need to listen to them as these people are who create public opinion about them – or we as an Internet users having reach to many random people around us (whatever on other forums, advice sites, our own webpages, or even as local thing as our friends) or pro users as those showing off Sony gear in notable places as one used by “real photographers”.
So I wouldn’t go down so quickly with saying that “It would be ridiculous of Sony to listen to us” – it’s in Sony’s best interest to listen to people like we.
SVOR
11 months ago |Slightly sad but I think you are absolutely correct. The mass market is key but they also have to listen to the opinion leaders …. who are probably evaluating more pre-production samples right now. The biggest challenge is how a manufacturer can get a good set of reviews and delight their mainstream market because one doesn’t always guarantee the other. NEX was a case in point, getting luke-warm reviews at the outset but finding a surprisingly good market in the stores which the traditional camera enthusiast would not have led Sony to in SAR or anywhere else. The firmware updates did a lot of good too of course and now the reviewers have decided NEX cameras were a good product after all. Well done them! We all make mistakes.
PhotoNut
11 months ago |Come on SONY, please hurry up and release new OVF DSLRs (APS-C and FF) with high performance features such as all cross and double cross AF sensors and much better Flash metering!
I just finished shooting an event last night with my A700 and f/2.8 lenses. In the indoor portions the A700′s single line outer focus points were close to useless. The damn things would not track focus correctly even for stationary targets.
The flash metering was almost useless as well, consistently generating underexposed images when bounced. This seems a consistent problem with the Sony Alpha Flashes (at least with the 42AM). Yet, when I simply switched to manual mode and set exposure to 1/60th Sec at f/2.8 and manual flash power setting of 1/8th, I got perfectly exposed pictures leading me to believe that the flash simply refuses to fire beyond 1/16th or less power in automode.
I think the following core aspects of traditional 35mm film cameras are Sony biggest weaknesses. Canon and Nikon especially has had decades to perfect them:
1. Auto focus : Sony has consistently the fewest number of AF points in their top of the line cameras. Nikon generally has the most and with a more sophisticated and configurable autofocus subsystem. Sony A700/A850/A900 only has like 9 to 11 AF points with only one of them a cross sensor (aA700, A900 i think has double cross center sensor). Focus/recompose with center cross sensor is not always a good idea when shooting with wide aperture lenses!
2. Metering: Nikon again has the most sophisticated metering system honed for decades in the film AF SLRs. 3D metering with color and position information fed into a proprietary AI algorithm. Sony metering is just average and sucks when combined with flash. Don’t know much about Canon metering.
3. Flash : Nikon again is the leader here. Much more powerful flash metering & flash remote control protocol. Flash metering/exposure is flawless even with bounced flash and even remote flashes. Much more configurable flash parameters and algorithms. Canon was behind here but has caught up substantially and actually now exceeded Sony with the introduction of the Canon 7D with built in flash commander. I expect Canon to improve on this with radio (RF) controlled flashes in the future.
Many of the Sony fan boys who lurk around here and sing praises for non-serious DSLR/SLTs have never had to shoot events in difficult circumstances and thus don’t understand that all those “advanced” features available on Nikon/Canon and also on Minolta film cameras like Maxxum 7 are not just there for bragging rights but have a serious function justified by the combined decades of experience of professional photographers.
Sony features like smiler-shutter and lame panoramic mode are nice gimmicks but do nothing to help ensure that one gets successful pictures in difficult environments.
Ren
11 months ago |“those “advanced” features available on Nikon/Canon and also on Minolta film cameras like Maxxum 7 are not just there for bragging rights”
Yes! I had a Maxxum 7 before buying an a700! God, I miss that camera!
I am definitely in favor of Sony releasing an OVF camera. I don’t care about video, or the gimmicks. I need a camera that performs in the studio, as well as weddings (ISO 6400+).
Wish list:
Minolta ergonomics
18mpx
OVF
Fast and accurate AF
Clean images up to ISO 6400
Quieter shutter
My camera is the main tool with which I earn a living, so I need the best tool possible. I don’t give a crap about the features that appeal to a soccer mom.
If Nikon cameras had better ergonomics I would have switched a long time ago. The D300 is a great photography tool, it just isn’t very comfortable in my large hands (personally).
Almond
11 months ago |You would probably make your life a lot easier by switching to Nikon, you know?
Ren
11 months ago |Yep, if that didn’t mean investing in all new glass and getting used to the wonky handling of a Nikon.
I relate it to handguns; most of my friends shoot Glock, but I own a Beretta because it just feels better in my hands. When my life is on the line I want to reach for the weapon that feels most intuitively natural.
When I am shooting someone’s wedding, I want to reach for the camera that feels most intuitively natural in my hands. For me, that’s the a700 which feels nearly identical to my old Minolta Maxxum 7.
That being said, this is the last wedding season I plan to shoot the a700. If the replacement camera can’t perform well at ISO 6400 I will jump ship. Not because I want to, but because I have to.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |I also use an A700, and certainly agree with you about the uselessness of the single line AF focus points. Sony metering doesn’t seem to be as far behind Nikon. As I am largely an available-light photographer, I don’t use flash much, so I cannot speak to that.
However, from all of the evidence I have seen about Alpha cameras that have come out since the A700,including recent experience with the A55, I believe that Sony has made great strides in improving AF. The A55 is just MUCH better. What I hear about the A77 is that it is much better still. In fact, I believe that one of the advantages of the SLT is that it is a much better platform for superior AF. We’ll soon see with the A77.
Btw, I truly do not believe we’ll see another Alpha aps-c camera with any kind of OVF. I believe what we may see in August is three new Alpha aps-c SLTS.
chlamchowder
11 months ago |Other than AF tracking during video or very high speed bursts, I don’t think the SLT design offers an advantage over the traditional mirror. Both designs have a mirror that sends a portion of the light to the AF sensors and sends the rest to the optical finder (or imaging sensor in the SLTs). I’ve heard that it’s around 1/3 to the AF sensors in both cases.
In my experience, the a580′s autofocus is very good, with the outer line points locking focus in very dark situations (requiring ISO 12800 and low shutter speeds with a f/1.7 lens).
Actually, with 3 cross points, 8 line points, and 4 assist points (selectable in live view), Sony’s AF system in the a580/a55 is arguably as good as or better than other AF systems in entry level DSLRs, with the exception of Pentax (which offers more cross points).
ed paul
11 months ago |hello, i am lucky i get to test most of alpha camera for period of times.
i) yea, nikon has a lot, but to get one to point to other will just waste the moment gone. also, the rest of the point are just one line, they still work at a limited condition.
but since u mention u uses A700, let me tell u this, i have done a control test on A700+F2.8 lens vs A580+F3.5/5.6 lens shooting at low light, guess what? A580 lock accurately at most time, locking at a tree 15 meter away only with street light 4 meter away. A700 refuse to lock. i would say, A700 is showing its age. go test a A580 and feel how much sony has improved. i also tested A580 AF vs 5DII, (i used 5DII and my friend used my A580), i felt 5DII is hard to get consistent in focus photo, while my friend loves my A580 for each photo are taken tack sharp at F1.4.
*A580 camera is not mine, it belongs to Sony(M) lease to me for certain purposes.
ii)generally, OVF with 41 honeycomb is weak/unreliable. and i bet u never tested camera with QLV!. they have 1200zone metering which is a lot more accurate(comparable to nikons). now, the new alpha(since A550) with face detection far more even accurate as the metering is base on faces(in QLV, or better, EVF/SLT system has full time face detection!) so, its partly your own ignorances for knowing the right information then making misleading accusation. i know this because during a major fashion shoot, ALL of us, nikon and canon user has model faces overexposed, due to the focused light on the stage, they look nice on LCD i do agree they have pretty advance feature which need “really smart guys” to understand it.
it took 2 hours for a lady to fully understand and shooting away with sony WL system, while, this lady never able to understood CLS (she uses nikon for bout 2 years, and just introduce to sony for 1 month!) and she is now planning to switch, since if she sell every nikon, she can get back the same equip in sony with extra money to buy another 2 F58.
back to you, many nikon and canon fanboy in their respective forum also never shots any huge difficult events, and just blahbing away and also dont understand how all the extra features or why they pay so much more money for the system that they never fully use while they can get it cheaper with sony and giving the same result (yes, go try the new cameras for 6 months then come back) blah blah blah. many nikon and canon pro was surprised what alpha camera can do, go google around.
smile shutter is for family shooter, yes its gimmick, but a gimmick that is useful for ladies that doesnt give shit to L lens or CLS system, they just wans smile shutter. boohoo. seriously, if you think u can get better with better system, go ahead, throw me a film camera, i can bet, i still shoot better then you!
Physica
11 months ago |I don’t discuss is dSLT are in or dSLR are out… but what i know is , more option, more choice.
By the way, i really want sony to introduce a hybrid dSLT, which is able to select using OVF or using EVF, it will be great if it’s true even it will sold at high price.
or it has a micro innercooler to cool down the CMOS to prevent overheat or noise due to the high temp of the CMOS. HOHOHO (Joke only, Sorry for daydreaming)
hansen
11 months ago |I hope there will be a successor of the Sony A700 with an OVF. Because im not sure if i want an EVF.
Rob
11 months ago |I like to use my camera with a tripod, mirror lock up, and cable release to get the most out of my photos. A new FF camera with higher resolution than my alpha 850 that wouldn’t compromise image quality with a pellicle mirror would be most welcome.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |even though it has better image quality than any other camera?
Rob
11 months ago |If that’s what happens, then fine. We’ll see.
Walt
11 months ago |I think people overrate the cost of OVF pentaprisms. They can the churned out rapidly by automated equipment. Far less involved than plating up a EVF chip. And the EVF still requires optical elements.
Yes I’d be interested in a true OVF pentaprism replacement for the a700 as some of my photography is not suited for EVF and a lot of the rest OVF is better. If necessary I’d pay much more for the OVF but there is little reason for a big cost difference.
Because of the limitations of EVF and other aspects of the SLT design I’m not at all interested in SLT.
Cyrus
11 months ago |Sorry for the out of topic…
But reading some comments I wanted some advise from experienced Sony/Minolta users:
I have a Nex5 camera, and I wanted to upgrade to a mid range DSLR (mainly for fast AF, availability of lenses and price…etc)
As I have no lenses history/stock… What would be your advise:
Going to Sony A580/A55 (As a non dslr user I am highly attracted by the slt technology and spec)
Or you would advise to go to the market leaders as Nikon (D5100 for exp) or Canon.
Sorry to ask that on a Sony Alpha forum…
But I think it is one if the forums where I can get a honest answer…
Ren
11 months ago |Cyrus, the differences between the Sony cameras you listed are size, more than performance. The A580 and a55 have been tested and there is negligible difference in the photos. If you like the compact size of the a55, that is just as good as the a580.
Now, the difference between Nikon’s D5100 and the two Sony cameras comes down to the way they feel in your hands, because again, there is little difference in picture quality.
Another difference a lot of people will point out is the choice of lenses. Nikon has a greater variety of primes, but unless you are a person who needs a lot different primes and you think you will spend the money, the playing field isn’t as unbalanced as some will have you think. Sony cameras take advantage of a long line of good Minolta glass, so you can save money by buying used Minolta lenses. I have a 50mm 1.7, and a 70-210 Beercan, and both perform well under most circumstances. I spent a grand total of $250 to buy both of those lenses, and I have taken pictures with both that have been published. Take from that what you will.
Ren
Carl
11 months ago |The A580 has the best overall image quality of the current Sony lineup (this is coming from an A900 user), but has an unpleasant squinty viewfinder and so-so build. The A55 doesn’t have quite as good pictures as the A580 for reasons that I believe relate more to firmware than to the light loss from the pellicle mirror. There are also occasional deals to be had on the A850, such as with refurb units, although with its discontinuation these might well dry up. It’s still probably the best camera short of a D3X for tripod use.
The best course of action, though, would be to wait until the A65 and A77 are out and then make a decision, if nothing else because there should be a spike of older Sony bodies hitting the used market when that happens.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |Keep in mind that the D5100 will not accept most Nikon lenses–just the ones with built-in focus motors–because the camera itself does not have a built-in focus motor.
Anony
11 months ago |Maybe we’ll get lucky and it will be an SLT with both an OVF and an EVF? I can imagine the cost for such a machine would be high though.
Martin
11 months ago |Still hoping that Sony will start reproducing 135 film cameras.
Since i really don’t believe CCD/CMOS is a replacement for film, it’s more of a complement.
Carl
11 months ago |The Minolta 7 is still pretty widely available, has better autofocus performance than most Sonys, more manual controls, support for most of the modern flash modes and SSM/SAM lenses, and a nice pentaprism viewfinder. Is there something in particular that you find it lacking?
Martin Lind
11 months ago |I thought SSM/SAM lenses didn’t work with any Minolta film camera, it was one of the features that I wanted apart from the SONY logo.
Thanks for the info, I had no idea.
Carl
11 months ago |SSM/SAM lenses work with the 7, 5, 4, 3, 3L, 60, 70, 40 and 50 out of the box, so even a little plasticky Dynax 3 will happily focus a hulking 300/2.8 SSM. And as SSM focus speed is determined by the lens, not the body, it’ll be just as fast as an A900, too. The 9 and 9ti can also be upgraded to support SSM/SAM, but only in Japan and Germany, and the number of boards left is limited.
Cyrus
11 months ago |Many thanks Ren.
steven
11 months ago |If Sony listened to us buyers they might start to get it, most of us users want OVF, its the new buyers who don’t know what they’re missing who want/don’t care about EVF.
Theres a lag with EVF, its flat & no matter how many chances I give it I can’t stand it. I’ve spoken to people at Sony Australia and told them if this is the path Sony takes, I’ll be a Nikon user very quickly.
I don’t care about paying a few extra dollars for and OVF, just give us a choice, I’m not into video at all, Sony have the best range of video cameras so I don’t get the need cut into that side of their business.
explorer76
11 months ago |Having another OVF camera from Sony would be good. I have already adopted EVF as part of my kit and in most cases I like it. However EVF does have limitations right now which will keep me from going all-EVF in the near future. Looking forward to the new EVF in A77 to see how well does it improve on the current generation EVFs, but I suspect it might take at least one more generation of EVFs to fully overcome all the limitation.
steven
11 months ago |The thing is, they’ll lose a lot more current people/users of the OFV than they’ll get in the new users.
Remember that most people are buying what their friends & family are buying. 90% of the market is Canon & Nikon.
If sony want to cut into that, they need to keep their current users and hope for the new users, that means not upsetting their current users while making the new users happy.
They need to find the right mix, whats so hard with keeping their dSLR models and offering dSLT as well.
This will set Sony apart from Canon/Nikon/Pentax because they’ll have easier to use models with a stepping ground to real dSLRs.
Zstan
11 months ago |The a700 is ancient. Try asking any photogs who use live view for half of their time will tell you that metering in live view is much more accurate than in the OVF as it is using a different metering (46 point honeycomb?).can’t exactly remember the details but this is also another advantage of evf.
ieR
11 months ago |41honeycomb for OVF
1200zone for QLV
david safier
11 months ago |I use my 580 over my 700 and I only use my 850 for landscape beause the widest lens I have is 17mm and for hdr. The 580 has the same setting for hdr as the nex5. It doesn’t have the optine for 2+-ev or 5exp .7+-. I didn’t get the a55 because it did work well with studio lights, can’t see subject. I would buy the 780 over the 77 for now.
ieR
11 months ago |i am pretty sure sony is WELL aware of this. because A77 as built base on Pro feedback on their prototype (claim by sony). also, if the intelligent preview is still there, or introduce of autogain switch somewhere, its a diff story
zaiueo
11 months ago |Offering both SLTs and pentaprism OVFs for the top end (A7x/A9x series), while going SLT-only for mid/entry level would be a good balance, imo. Doubt Sony will do it, though.
Personally I really like EVFs. Find it really handy to see DOF, exposure, histogram and all that stuff right in the viewfinder. Just waiting for them to improve a little bit more before I sell my A580 and make the move to EVF – expecting the A77 to pass that improvement barrier.
Walt
11 months ago |Reading through all this I see a whole bunch of people with blinders on here. Today, right now, by an extremely wide margin in interchangeable lens cameras the OVF DSLR is chosen by more people than any other design. Only Sony of all the brands is trying to base it’s sales on a EVF camera who’s design is more like a bridge camera than a DSLR as it’s sole choice. The major portion of the market is OVF DSLR and will remain that for some time if not indefinitely.
If anything, maybe Sony is going to face reality that they did not take the world by storm and kill all other manufacturers with their SLT design. Maybe getting back in the OVF DSLR game instead of giving up as they realized just how marginal they could become.
I see nothing wrong with a peripheral camera like the SLT positioned between Consumer bridge cameras and OVF DSLRs and primarily targeted at Consumer camera people. With the sort of gimmicks that attract such customers. But as the world’s only type of camera it’s inappropriate, particularily at the high end. Choice will decide and right now it’s deciding OVF DSLR with Sony losing high end customers by not competing there. With their apparent soon to be only SLT FF they may have begun to realize just how much they could loose.
I see no value for myself in video, if I went back to video I’d get a camcorder built for high end video use, not a compromise of a still camera. I also almost never shoot stills with continuous shooting as composition control is too important to me. I do not have difficulty with setting exposure so do not need the LV exposure setting aids. Nor do I need magnifying aids for manual focus. So other than that it uses a new generation of processing, sensor, AF module and so on that could as easily be in a true OVF DSLR the SLT is not attractive to me. Though others who are not interested in stills, particularly stills of all kinds of moving subjects shot in many different ways may find the SLT suitable for the part of photography they do.
Truly innovative technology advances are in things like Lytro is attempting, not in Sony’s current products.
It’s about variety and choice, folks, and if Sony produces more different types of quality top end cameras in APS I’m all for it. Particularly if they come out with a true a700 replacement which combines it’s best features including OVF with the latest sensor, processing, AF and so on. That would be a real good tool for many advanced folks who would then stick with Sony instead of having to leave.