(SR3) Sony testing a new FF camera without AA filter
The D800 with AA filter on left and the D800E without AA filter on right.
Many didn’t notice that Pentax new K-5 IIs camera (available here on Amazon) not only features the well known Sony 16 Megapixel sensor. It also doesn’t use any Anti Aliasing filter. This will increase the per pixel sharpness although you will have to deal with moirè issues. And here comes the next rumor: I heard from a couple of sources that Sony’s next FF high megapixel number camera that will be announced next year is very likely going rid of the AA filter too! It will become a sort of Nikon D800E alike camera. I am still working to get more details about the camera. So stay tuned on SAR, subscribe the RSS feed (Click here) and Twitter (Click here) stream and the Facebook fan page (Click here)!
P.S.:Photoclubalpha also posted an article about possible future Sony cameras having no Anti Aliasing Filter.
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Black Friday hourly deals: Amazon (cameras), Amazon (all stuff), Adorama, Bhphoto, J&R, TigerDirect, Bestbuy and eBay. And last New A900 for sale on eBay (via Slidoo).
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
Sky_walker
6 months ago |@Photoclubalpha – well, they touched a very rare topic, but a lot of Alpha owners been wondering why A99 downgraded AF module so much comparing to A900 – Sony’s brand new flagship SLT not only have AF coverage worst of all Full Frame cameras on a market, but also it’s missing on famous f/2.8 double-cross sensor that made A900 shine in low-light focusing.
I’m still amazed that Sony doesn’t fully explore the possibilities given by SLT design for an advantage of PDAF – why we don’t see cameras with 9 or more double-cross sensors, or AF covering 90% or more of APS-C frame / significantly exceeding thrids-rule grid on 35mm, or an options to seamlessly switch to CDAF for landscape photography (or automatic AF microadjustments) or color-based AF assist.
On the other hand though improvements to tracking AF brought by A77 are more then welcome and really impressive comparing to the previous models, but… that’s what they should have done back in the day of A500 when competition already had 3D tracking.
MrBig
6 months ago |Look back at Sony’s Alpha line, one really gets a gimps of where things are going. Sony has brought many innovations into the mainstream market and it likely took a while to integrate them into consumer products. That being said, looking at what’s coming-up in the horizon, I’m guessing we are about to see the fruits of their labor. And the competition will have good cause to be weary of the impact this will have on their share of the market.
PS. the A99 was an consumer level FF solution that will settle at/or around 2400.00 by the time the upcoming products are announced.
Steve
6 months ago |+1
I’m relieved that the a99 is as good as it is. The reviews I’ve seen so far shows the camera to be superior in video and equal in stills IQ to the competition,and with all of the other tech that makes Sony a standout above the rest, but not necessarily a big enough improvement for me to retire my a850’s just yet. I’m planning to wait just a few more months to see what’s coming next.
2013 looks to be an expensive year for me, if as rumored Sony ships the 50/f1.4 ZA, updates the 70-200/f2.8 AND releases the Sony A-mount full-frame body of my dreams.
Bosse
6 months ago |“[...] or an options to seamlessly switch to CDAF for landscape photography (or automatic AF microadjustments) or color-based AF assist.”
I fully agree with that one!
This is such an opportunity Sony has with its unique SLT-design, which their competitor doesn’t have!
Ian
6 months ago |Same here, still using an a850….and hanging on for something just a bit better than the a99!
Bengt Nyman
6 months ago |Because Sony realizes that the SLT design is an interum solution on the way to mirrorless. The 36 MP FF Sony shall be mirrorless with both PDAF pixels and final high accuracy CDAF on the image sensor.
There are lots of SLR and some SLT cameras with fast and inaccurate autofocus. We don´t need another one.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |As I said numerous times – for me A99 is A77 with full frame sensor and AF-D mode. I still wait for true flagship Alpha, and a true successor of the A900.
hanugro
6 months ago |I will be satisfied with A99 if it retail for $2000 body only.
Lofote
6 months ago |Just interested, what was A900 to A700 then? Actually a lot more features are in A99 (all the audio stuff for example) compared to A77 than A900 to A700 (the A900 “only” had full frame and Intelligent Preview added).
Sky_walker
6 months ago |Not at all.
Besides sensor it got completely different viewfinder and mirror chamber (famous lifting mirror), dual CPUs, reinforced shutter, completely different AF system featuring double cross sensor, custom modes, top LCD added, completely re-designed body… list can go on.
A77 and 99 share viewfinder, CPU, body (with slight cosmetics), PDAF module, modes/menus etc.etc. nearly every difference between A99 and 77 is a consequence of new sensor (AF-D mode: on-sensor-PDAF, less noise in viewfinder and better dynamic range: bigger sensor, better high-ISO shots: bigger sensor, etc.etc.).
hanugro
6 months ago |Hm, I still can’t get rid of moire effect on photo taken by a pro photographer with old Nikon SLR. I think no moire is better than sharpest pixel.
MrBig
6 months ago |Moire is relative to resolution.
And no other system shows us this better than the D800E. The older systems were much more prone to moire than the higher res solutions.
hanugro
6 months ago |Yeah, the old Nikon’s is 6mp dSLR. So that will make the next FF top of the line a 36mp one. I would still rather Sony put a weaker antialiasing though. Pixel sharpness is not everything.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |If it’d be that simple: Removing AA filter from A77 would give you the best camera on a market (it has smaller pixels then D800)!
SVOR
6 months ago |+1
Carl
6 months ago |Select the part of the image file with moire in photoshop and apply a gaussian blur to it.
fola
6 months ago |Some news about new Alha APS-C models too?
zedrick
6 months ago |I prefer Fuji’s solution – randomized colour array layout – minimal to non-existent moire.
shamb
6 months ago |I always wondered why any SLT has the AA filter at all: the slight translucent mirror scattering means a seperate AA filter is not needed?
MrBig
6 months ago |I think you raise a good point.
Sony could just as easily incorporate AA filter in the mirror and offer this as an option to those wanted to do video etc.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |I thought it was already proven numerous times that most recent mirrors don’t scatter the light in any visible way (and that Sony still uses stronger AA filters then competition).
Sahaja
6 months ago |Maybe the extra sharpness will be some sort of indirect compensation for the light loss of that SLT mirror?
Mike1
6 months ago |I’m still waiting for a 24MP APSC camera without AA filter. With such pixel density, triggering moire is almost impossible. Let’s see what Pentax would do with Sony’s 24MP sensor.
lol
6 months ago |lol sonuy how you can do this?? go and make a decent final fantasy like ff7 and leave the camera market to canon, you can only earn some money from this
John Maverick
6 months ago |Very pleased to see this.
An AA less sensor in a full-frame stills camera, with short mount, gives lens designers a lot more freedom to play with smaller symmetrical lens designs.
People already complain about lens sizes on NEX so this would be a good thing.
Seems to be a trend now – the Fuji XE-1, Ricoh GXR and Kodak K5-II are all AA less.
Moire can also be fixed somewhat by having the sensor outresolve the lens, so more Mp helps improve the only drawback of AA-less sensors.
MrLee
6 months ago |No AA filter is not surprising at all on this next higher MP camera…
If other manufactures are doing no AA on non SLT, It seems like the translucent mirror would be enough to handle the slight moire issues for sure…
Even though they claim SLT image quality is exactly the same as OVF design… How could this be if the SLT designs always have lower image quality than the OVF’s that even have the same sensor…
I think the Translucent Mirror is enough to deal with Moire no matter what they say…
Next Years model with no AA Filter will also be a good way for Sony to get better image quality from the new model over the a99, To try to make the a99 buyers buy a new body… Sony has been pretty good at this lately…
I am skipping the a99 and waiting for what they plan on doing with this one…
Pascal645
6 months ago |I can’t believe this debate is still going on!
Pro AA users have an enormous range of cameras to choose from. Not so for people willing to live with moire for the extra sharpness. Sony is to be applauded for doing this (if they do) so are Pentax and Leica (and Nikon, to a certain extent, since the D800e is not entirely AA-free).
There’s a trend here, simply because some people want it, just like others seem to crave ridiculously high ISO or frame rates. Please let us have our sharp pixel fun
Just out of interest, how many people here have lost a precious shot to moire ? In 35 years of photography, it’s NEVER happened to me. Being frustrated by AA filters mushing up my files ? All the time.
Andrea, thanks for making my day
Fants
6 months ago |I’ve only had moire pop up in a shot once, on my 5DII with a Zeiss 35-70/3.4 mounted (an insanely sharp lens). It was easily dealt with. I’d very happily accept a bit of moire in exchange for sharper details, as I like to print quite big (way over 20×30) and every bit of sharpness helps.
The K-5 IIs looks FANTASTIC as far as IQ goes. Substantially better at high ISOs than any of the other Sony 16mp sensor cameras, plus the lack of AA filter that makes a noticeable difference over the normal version. It’s actually tempting me back into the world of APS DSLRs…now, if only we could get the same sensor in a NEX body!
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