(SR5) A99 has phase detection pixel on sensor!
The A99 will be the first Full Frame SLT camera. And we just heard a bit of a surprising news from top sources. The A99 24 Megapixel sensor has phase detection AF pixels on sensor too! Like the upcoming NEX-5R and NEX-6 cameras. I guess you now have one major question…why the hell have phase detection pixels on sensor when there is already a Phase detection module capturing a percentage of the light reflected by the semitransparent mirror? We have been told that the accuracy and speed can be improved through that dual phase detection system. Multiple sources already told us the AF speed is amazingly fast and very accurate in their first testings with the camera.
Some of the sources told me this is the fastest AF of any DSLR and the video quality is also better than the Canon 5DmarkIII. No info yet about the image quality yet. I am working on many new rumors. Stay tuned, i think there is still room fro some other surprise!
One more thing: NEX announcement date is August 28th! Be sure to be on SAR on that day!
a.lu.mi.
9 months ago |NEX announcement date is August 28th!<– So Great!!!
Be sure to be on SAR on that day! <– I am staying on tune every hour!!!
NEXfive
9 months ago |Yeah, great to find at least some few NEX news between all this A99 stuff here
matgay
9 months ago |la-ea2 adapter can now be stacked with nex5r/nex6 for twice better autofocus???
Sky_walker
9 months ago |A99 topic spammed by NEX guys, NEX topics spammed by A99 guys…. seems like nature is back in balance.
Lonnie Utah
9 months ago |Now THIS is a reason to be interested in this cam….
Now let’s integrate this technology to a full sized A-mount mirrorless 36MP cam, and you can count me as a buyer….
Pikeaxe
9 months ago |Where do the SLT cameras pull the EVF image from, through the semitransparent mirror or the sensor?
Mats
9 months ago |From the sensor (via the SLT-mirror).
Reflection from mirror is only for PDAF.
Hmmm, this could mean that the mirror is more translucent than before and steals less light. (?)
Greg
9 months ago |No, this would mean the mirror should be completely transparent and steal ZERO light. The PDAF sensors off-chip would be redundant, making the mirror unnecessary.
A99 would be just an SL camera.
Hellven
9 months ago |it wouldnt be redundant, a dedicated sensor for PDAF is much superior than some pixels on the main sensor!
that’s why Nikon 1 uses contrast detection AF when the light conditions are not good
Greg
9 months ago |Uh, that’s exactly WHY it’s redundant. You don’t put a PDAF method on sensor if you have a superior one on the other side of the mirror. CDAF compliments PDAF. No point in having CDAF complimenting on-sensor PDAF which complements real PDAF.
Hellven
9 months ago |if it improves performance, why not?
Greg
9 months ago |We’ll wait and see. I can’t see how it can improve performance over micro-adjusted PDAF sensors, especially augmented by CDAF…which can be done now.
Sahaja
9 months ago |The SLT mirror still robs light. If you have on-sensor PDAF + CDAF, then is the slight focusing speed advantage you might get having additional PDAF, via the SLT mirror, worth the light loss?
Sky_walker
9 months ago |“Uh, that’s exactly WHY it’s redundant. ” – nope, you’re wrong. Unless you want to see completely useless AF for anything else then static objects / slowly moving stuff – you NEED real PDAF sensor, not hybrid solution.
A99 will have SLT mirror. Whatever you like it or not.
Rolleiflex
9 months ago |I thought it would be clear that with the current Dual PDAF, the accuracy and speed has been improved much more. PDAF on sensor is not at its prime yet so there is no reason to abandon the SLT this early. I would trade that -0.5 EV and little IQ degradation for the fastest SAF and tracking. Couple that with the high ISO performance, this is the D4 killer (granted, not “pro” bulky body and without Nikon lens choice). Now the FF NEX should be 36MP or more for studio/landscape. I would buy both.
Joe
9 months ago |The question, why the so-called A99 (I prefer A90) might have a hybrid-AF with redundant sensors, is easy to answer. The main AF-sensor only receives those 30% of the light that the semi-transparent mirror reflects, but it receives it continuously. The AF-pixels on the image sensor receives the remaining 70% of the light, but only when the shutter is open.
Without knowledge of the technology used, it is crystal ball gazing. But I assume that the main AF-sensor is used for fast, continuous coarse focusing, whereas the on-sensor AF-pixels is used for fine precision.
It will be interesting to see what Sony will be offering. Probably the technology will be so good, that – combined with a great EVF – also SLT-sceptics and OVF-lovers will become a owner of this camera. But so far, it’s just guesses and rumors. But hey, that’s a rumor site here…
The Lotus Eater
9 months ago |I suppose that could be a possibility Mats. Maybe less light is required for the dedicated PDAF module if there is PDAF on-sensor which can assist with speed and especially accuracy.
St.
9 months ago |A99 will share the same sensor as the upcoming D600 – 24Mpx.
Let see which one will be better sold on the market.
Joe
9 months ago |I hate to say it, but this may be the singlemost idiotic comment I have seen. Let’s see which sells more: a $2600 Sony or a $1300 Nikon. I only know the answer for one person – me. Sony wins. But in general, the D600 will sell more. This isn’t apples for apples.
Andreas
9 months ago |To be honest – at this price difference it would be difficult for me to justify the Sony….the features would have to be awesome.
Bengt Nyman
9 months ago |A99 autofocus is a two step process; fast, initial focus from mirror and PDAF. Exact, final focus from PD pixels on the image sensor. This gets away from camera body tolerance problems alá Nikon D800 and it produces fast and exact focus.
Denis
9 months ago |You’re wrong. On sensor PDAF can’t ensure accuracy. It will be PDAF → CDAF sequence.
Bengt Nyman
9 months ago |No. The A99 24 Megapixel sensor has phase detection AF pixels on the image sensor. That’s the whole point.
MattH
9 months ago |It probably has the phase detection pixels on the sensor just because they are putting them in all sensors now. Means they can use the same sensor on the nex full frame video camera.
Booe
9 months ago |Well it is, but implementation (both hardware and software) is the crux of the problem. Multiple manufacturers have tried, with different results. We are yet to see if Sony approarch would be better/worse.
Sky_walker
9 months ago |@Bengt – it won’t be neither fast nor accurate (at least: in tracking mode). PDAF on sensor is very primitive technology currently that’s barely improving CDAF. It’s nowhere near fully-sized PDAF, so I wouldn’t make any hopes for that. Not yet.
Denis
9 months ago |These points are too tiny to provide accurate focus.
BTW, I wonder why Sony wasted resources on such a technology (on sensor PDAF). It definitely has no future: there shall be no unforced compromises with close to 0 efficiency.
They just want to make estimation where to focus. Well, there are other (and better) methods for this task, no need to degrade IQ.
poke
9 months ago |Maybe that the more involved the sensor is in focusing the less obtrusive the translucent mirror is. Truly looking forward to this camera.
Wong
9 months ago |This is very interesting, can’t wait!
GB
9 months ago |WOW Im sure price will be high or it will compete too much against their A77. How much can an A77 in perfect condition can sell on the net?
voyager42
9 months ago |I just sold my 8 month old perfect condition a77 on ebay for $1089. That was the starting bid and I only got 1 bidder! Sold the Vertical Grip for $203… Actually it was the same bidder as the camera body!!!…
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |And why did you sell? To pave the way for the A99?
Cron
9 months ago |Get rid of the translucent mirror and we get a winner product
Rolleiflex
9 months ago |You can get rid of it yourself. It’s your call to choose the super high speed and accurate SLT or the slower PDAF on sensor. It’s more flexible than just simply forgoing the translucent mirror. The only advantage of mirrorless is the short registration distance.
Sahaja
9 months ago |Who says on-sensor PDAF will be slow? The OM-D, using only CDAF, is said to have a focusing speed equal to the D7000 – and it is more accurate. A year ago many people would have declared this impossible. An on sensor hybrid PDAF / CDAF system should be faster. I suspect a lot of the focusing speed differences in cameras is going to come down to how good the algorithms used in the software controlling focusing are.
Spoon
9 months ago |The Olympus is super fast and accurate on still subjects. But with moving subjects or follow focus in general it fails compared to any modern DSLR. That’s why PDAF even now has many fans still.
Rolleiflex
9 months ago |The keyword here is “slower.” I am well aware of the OM-D AF system and its limitations.
Matt
9 months ago |You are forgetting that that is with lenses that are highly optimized for CDAF, older lenses aren’t that fast still. On A-Mount NO lenses are optimizes for CDAF, so while it will be accurate it will be super slow, combined with inferior on sensor PDAF and you will still have slow AF, but faster than CDAF alone.
Booe
9 months ago |+1 for Matt
feedmatekill
9 months ago |This sounds great and I’ll be a buyer for sure but there’s no doubt in my mind that sony will find a way to fu** this camera up….they’ll put in too small buffer or make the firmware slow…..they’ll find a way to screw rhis up for us
. …seriously i just can’t wait to get this ff slt, it’s just what I need…..and if it enables me to make a solid ISO3200 shot in dimm light theres no end to my happines 
Almazar80
9 months ago |This may well be the last (or next to last) generation of SLTs from Sony, before they switch to fully mirrorless. They have to get the speed and accuracy up before a complete transition takes place. I reckon, however, that within five years the transition should be possible. I am already quite happy with the NEX, but faster and accurate focusing on a larger sensor is always more of a challenge. Good news if true.
Greg
9 months ago |Two PDAF sensor sets? One on-chip and one off? Belt and suspenders? Makes about as much sense as running IS in the lens and on the chip at the same time.
If PDAF on-sensor works, this camera shouldn’t have a mirror at all. If it doesn’t, then why did they put it there? A half-baked beta release product? I’ll skip this round in that case and just wait for the mirrorless.
Lonnie Utah
9 months ago |One step at a time Greg…
dave
9 months ago |I think the camera knows better from the traditional PDAF sensor, which way and how much to go. Then onsensor AF takes over when to brake the focus motor at perfect focus.
And with on sensor AF, front or backfocus belong to the past with any lens.
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |Only the results will tell what sense it makes, Greg.
In the meantime, I believe it makes sense.
Spoon
9 months ago |Makes a lot of sense if they are complementary. On sensor can be more precise (or add precision to the off sensor AF module), off sensor is much more sensitive (usable in lower light where on sensor isn’t).
Booe
9 months ago |>off sensor is much more sensitive (usable in lower light where on sensor isn’t).
It is now, but this will reverse over time, when technology improves.
The Lotus Eater
9 months ago |“Makes about as much sense as running IS in the lens and on the chip at the same time.”
Silly comment. You have to assume that the PDAF module and the on-sensor PDAF are designed to work with and complement each other, not work against each other like lens and body IS would.
Greg
9 months ago |Dave and Spoon…you guys are describing CDAF exactly. It compliments true PDAF. On-sensor PDAF is neither here nor there.
Lotus, that’s my point. Two PDAF systems aren’t necessary. Microadjust on one works fine, and/or CDAF and PDAF together. If on-sensor works, than take out the mirror.
Lonnie, this is only a half-step, if that’s the case. The kind that trips people up.
The Lotus Eater
9 months ago |“Two PDAF systems aren’t necessary”
Until you and and everyone else knows how this system is going to work, I don’t think you can say that. I’m sure Sony didn’t put this system in the camera just for a laugh.
Greg
9 months ago |I’m not sure about anything Sony does.
They took the on-board flash off “just for laughs”, right? They also disabled then killed the ring macro flash. They also took tethering out of the A77. I could go on.
The track record shows they do plenty of things that don’t make ANY sense, let alone partial sense.
Greg
9 months ago |PS…this is a rumor site. If we waited until Sony gave us details to postulate, this whole website would be GONE.
VicTor
9 months ago |Greg, to take something off is quite different than to add somethig new. Odd argumentation. I think Sony have some well-founded reason to do so. If you cant’t see any technical advantage at this particular time, it doesn’t mean there is no one.
Greg
9 months ago |Victor,
True, taking something off isn’t the same thing as putting something on. But taking something off for no reason is about as inexplicable as putting something on for no reason.
Here’s a possible scenario. Perhaps they had a development plan for the sensor PDAF running for a couple years. They intended for it to replace the current method…and the mirror. But oops, it didn’t work as well as they planned. So they had to keep the mirror.
Do they “take credit” for the sensor PDAF? Sure…if it buys them points on the street (and airtime on forums like this). Does it really do anything? (Or anything more than CDAF would have?) Maybe not.
Kinda like letting gasoline engine cars claim “partial zero emissions” when they are much more like a normal polluting car than a hybrid or an electric. It’s all just a name.
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |This is a credible rumor. On the evidence I have heard, I believe there will be a dual-pdaf system in the A99, and that it will work extremely well.
If it works as well as is being reported, Sony has come from way behind to the front of the class in af systems, in just two years. Impressive indeed!
Spoon
9 months ago |Greg, we would be describing CDAF if it wouldn’t compromise speed (specifically on moving targets and/or in lower light). And sofar, even hybrid systems using both instead of one or the other (hello Canon and Fujifilm), do not have a good trackrecord in this regard. So as it stands, no system involving CDAF has proven to cope well with action in all kinds of conditions. Compared to native PDAF systems that is.
So I’m certainly not ruling out possible benefits here.
Booe
9 months ago |The answer is obvious to me, Sony is preparing for mirror removal. A99 is the intermediate model.
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |Perhaps, but not very soon, and there may be another generation or so of “intermediate” models.
John C
9 months ago |To me, it makes sense only if there is a way to flip the mirror up on the A99.
We know that current on sensor PDAF is significantly inferior to the dedicated PDAF modules, so I doubt using the two in tandem would help. However, it would make sense if they let you flip up the mirror and use slower PDAF so that you can get the 1/2 stop of extra light.
However, we don’t know if Sony has revolutionized the on sensor PDAF, or if their sensors are in line with their competitors.
Bosse
9 months ago |I agree, one or two more generations and the on sensor PDAF will have the power to be fast and light sensitive enough to fully replace the dedicated / separate PDAF-sensor and skip the mirror.
Until then the on sensor PDAF pixels will make front or backfocus belonging to the past with any lens and thus no need of microadjustments of AF per lens.
It’s a very interesting development!
Greg
9 months ago |So, in bright light, on sensor PDAF eliminates backfocus, but in low light it reverts to off-sensor PDAF?
Seems counterproductive, considering the mirror kills a half stop and exacerbates the low-light problem in the first place.
I’d take on-sensor PDAF with CDAF reversion in low light, and ditch the mirror….like the Nikon.
Bosse
9 months ago |And how does it work when you makes microadjusments of AF per lens?
Do you have to do that each time you start up your camera?
It could of course be saved in the internal memory of the camera, just in the way microadjustments are saved today per lens!
I can’t say how Sony will handle it, but it is a possibility to do so.
Greg
9 months ago |Okay, perhaps that’s the plan. The on-chip PDAF is used merely to calibrate the regular PDAF, eliminating the need to microadjust each lens manually.
If there’s no significant added cost nor impact on IQ, then it would be valuable.
Although, this could also be conceivably done with CDAF with a calibration routine. I’m a bit surprised live view cameras have implemented this feature already.
Spoon
9 months ago |Doesn’t sound counter productive when on balance, you’re still ending up with an efficiency similar to with what Canon achieves these days. I certainly don’t see losing between 0.3 to 0.5 EV of light while retaining fast autofocus in less than ideal light, as counter productive compared to slow AF in anything but good light (see Nikon 1 series). Even assuming 0.5 EV light loss, there’s a whole lot of room to play with action left where CDAF or on sensor PDAF fails.
Public
9 months ago |Not to mention you can always compensate the light loss with a higher ISO setting. Sony is doing great in making low noise sensor.
leowarnes
9 months ago |Pictures? The gost a99!!!
Bosse
9 months ago |And how does it work when you makes microadjusments of AF per lens?
Do you have to do that each time you start up your camera?
It could of course be saved in the internal memory of the camera, just in the way microadjustments are saved today per lens!
I can’t say how Sony will handle it, but it is a possibility to do so.
E
9 months ago |1st half-press after mounting a lens will do PDAF, then CDAF then store the adjustment needed.
Spoon
9 months ago |For every FL since adjustments can vary per FL? For every aperture since adjustments can vary per F stop (especially large apertures)? For differing temperatures since tolerances can vary per temperature? Of course, what we’ve seen now is mostly restricted to manually entering one correction value per lens as well, but that doesn’t deny the fact that better precision can be achieved.
E
9 months ago |Plz, let the Sony marketing dept leak info in their own pace …
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |What “gost”?
Hans
9 months ago |DSLR and also SLT will be history very soon. Thank’s Sony!!
LOVEuANDREAS
9 months ago |Hi My Dear Admin
I am a woman of 26 and I like very much your website.
I was wondering if you could give some more detail about this promising NEX6…
Any info about the quality of EVF ? other pics of the camera as per the NEX5R ? Is it worth changing coming from a NEX5N ? and even a NEX7 ?
Thans
Frank
9 months ago |There are already plenty of women posting here, mostly old ones from the sound of it…
Mike
9 months ago |Nice try, but imitating a woman won’t give you more attention by the admin.
By the way, the admin is called Andrea, not Andreas.
Pei
9 months ago |Admin is also a woman so unless you are appealing to her sisterhood, better pretend to be a man.
Ha ha
Mojoe
9 months ago |Sounds amazing to me, but i’m corious if the extra autofocus-pixels will have a negative effect on the imagequality, because they are located on the sensor.
However, if they could get rid off the mirror, the phase-detect-pixels would receive a lot more light ( in theory 100%, correct me if i’m wrong), than the phase-detect-system of an SLT ( the 30% that are bounced up be the mirror).
Wouldnt that make it a focussystem, that works great in low light & super fast?
Mats
9 months ago |Nah, the af-pixels on the sensor is much smaller than those off-board so even if they get 100% there are fewer photons vitting them.
No, I cant really understand this yet. Sony probably has an extra ace up their sleeve. Some new innovation that can take advantage of this.
I dont beleive that we get sensor AF that can replace mirrored pdaf sensors wit the same performance until many years from now or ever.
Mojoe
9 months ago |Ok that sounds logic to me, thanks for the reply.
.
Hopefully we will know more about that soon.
I’m really interested in the innovations sony will put in the a99, even if can’t afford one
kalpurush :)
9 months ago |Now, to compliment the a99, Sony has to offer some really fast A-mount lenses, no?
Is Sony going to release few fast lenses with a99 Andrea?
admin
9 months ago |not yet. Will have more info about that soon…Working on it right now!
Sky_walker
9 months ago |You already have some info about lenses being released after A99? That’s a very nice news
mark
9 months ago |This camera seems to be more and more what I want. Let’s hope Sony doesn’t f..it up this time. Now, opposite to some of you guys I’m investing in ff alpha lenses and I’m not interested in e mount ones. It’d be redundant and too expensive. So a99 + Nex9+ alpha lenses setup is a perfect combo. Only my wallet will suffer:(
Boomstick
9 months ago |I love how there’s a mention about the AF system and everybody who enjoys bashing the SLT mirror just comes out of the woodwork instead of buying an A900 and enjoying themselves.
rikken
9 months ago |If AF of α99 will be faster and more accurate than 1dx with 2500usd ,
that’s very very attractive.
In the AF ability α99 is near 1dx&d4 more than that of 5d3&d800.
And moreover , we can use fastest AF with LiveView monitor 3way-tilt.
Yeah !
CTPhotographX.com
9 months ago |Is it an a99 or a95/6/7/8…???
admin
9 months ago |A99
gk1128
9 months ago |A99 has phase detection pixel on sensor! <– Preparation for Nex-FF !
sergei
9 months ago |Andrea, that’s what I wanted to learn. Thanks for at least some info. If it weren’t for you, I’d be gradually switching to Canon 5d Mklll.
Having seen the beauty of a camera FS700 perform in video department, I’m now filled with hope Sony will produce a stellar A- mount camera. They have this only opportunity in my case.
Raffwal
9 months ago |Has Sony managed to get rid of or reduce the internal mirror reflections that the first SLTs showed with bright lights on a dark background? Or are they just a phenomenon that one sees rarely?
The Lotus Eater
9 months ago |Raffwal, Sony got rid of the SLT mirror ghosting on the latest models – A57, A65, A77 etc.
Steve
9 months ago |Does the sensor based PDAF work with CDAF like Canon’s hybrid AF or is it like Nikon’s system where only PDAF is used in good light and then switched to CDAF in poor light? It’ll be interesting to see how it performs.
john
9 months ago |http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=42307038
RVN
9 months ago |VERY INTERESTING!!
pancanikonpus
9 months ago |Everyone are happy with SAR5 in Nex FF and A99
where goes for those a77 firmware detail 
Almazar80
9 months ago |Would it not be neat if the sensor in the A77 and the NEX-7 have phase detection pixels on them as well? That Sony could be refining the algorithms before “turning them on” via a firmware upgrade. Irregardless of this dream, it would be REAL NICE if Sony released updated firmware for these two cameras soon. They work well, but there is room for improvement.
Bob J
9 months ago |Perhaps the mirror can be moved out of the way?
Hellven
9 months ago |I really hope that the A99 comes with a good price, around €2000 would be nice!
if not, a good firmware update on the A77 would be enough for me, just giving the buffer a good improvement like canon did with the 7D, fallowed by a price drop
Rick
9 months ago |Seems like every a99 rumor has Sony working to crush Panny/Nikon/Canon in the DSLR video department. I keep saying it – in order for the a99 to make waves it has to not just match what the 5d2 or d800(and d600) is capable of producing – it has to be revolutionary and class leading in as many aspects as possible.
We know it won’t win the MP race with the d800, but if it offers steadyshot, lower noise than the 5d2/d800 at all ISO’s, better AF and superior video Sony will have a home run as it’ll be another 2-3 years before the 5d4 and d900. Eliminate the moire, aliasing and mushyness of the 5d3 and d800 video, include a headphone jack and let steadyshot function with legacy glass in both stills and video and many will migrate to the a99.
Pack that in under $3000 and I’ll pre-order the day its announced.
Morten
9 months ago |Rikken, AF faster and more accurate than the 1dx?!!? Not gonna happen… And with what other lenses than the 70-200? A screw based af motor 50, 85 or 135? Nope.
Hellven
9 months ago |carl Zeiss 16-35/2.8 SSM
Carl Zeiss 24-70/2.8 SSM
Sony 70-200/2.8 G SSM
Sony 300/2.8 SSM
Sony 500/4 SSM
this makes a good lineup to any photojournalist, dont you think?
grizzler
9 months ago |I hate to rain on your parade here, but the SSM lenses are about the most pedestrian ILM lenses produced. The 70-300G SSM and 70-400G SSM are way slower focussing than any of their nearest screw drive equivalents. Whats the point in having razor sharp AF in the body if its sitting around twiddling its thumbs waiting for the motor to wind up. On the plus side the SSM lenses are quiet and for us wildlife photographers thats important.
Gianluca
9 months ago |70-200 f2,8 – 300 f2,8 – 500 f4 – new 70-400….
travelshots
9 months ago |Don’t forget the Carl Zeiss 24mm f2.0 SSM and the expected (with A99 or a little later) 50mm f1.2 SSM.
EcoR1
9 months ago |If the signal processing- and phase-detection system is fast enough with A99, then any camera with flip-flap mirror will be inferior. At least with a continuous focusing. 1dx or any other traditional DSRL wont focus when the mirror is up. That’s the beauty of SLT. No stupid moving mirror and camera can focus all the time.
E
9 months ago |I would agree with that from a ‘fast-and-accurate’ perspective.
Sony may well be the fastest and sharpest on the block.
What has been lacking so far is the configurability:
Should focus be held on a subject even if obstacles come in the way?
and stuff like that.
Steve
9 months ago |Everyone knows that Sony needs to replace many of its full-frame lenses.
I think with this new full-frame, Sony will have a better idea of what changes in lens design and motors will be needed to support tomorrows cameras a be ready release new products.
We shall see
If not, Sony is wasting its time.
Milt
9 months ago |This is good news… will be interested to see how much turns out to be true
Denis
9 months ago |Hope Olympus will present camera this Photokina with image analysis based AF that will bury stupid idea with on sensor PDAF.
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |Olympus, barely back from the dead, isn’t burying anybody.
john
9 months ago |Still one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.
Dave Lively
9 months ago |If Sony is coming out with a FF mirrorless camera they probably did not see the need to develop 2 different FF sensors. If they are going to need a FF sensor with PDAF on the chip there is nothing to lose by putting it on this camera too. They will also get a chance to see how well the on chip PDAF works in the real world before they introduce a camera that is totally reliant on it.
PDAF on the chip seems to really help with focus speed but is not currently as fast as mirror based PDAF. Being able to combine the speed of 2 different types of PDAF with the accuracy of CDAF could have a lot of advantages.
Public
9 months ago |Full time triple focusing modules? It’s gotta be fast!
voyager42
9 months ago |Don’t know much about the technical side of AF but I remember reading here about the a99 having 102 AF points and some comments saying that was not right because it has to be an odd number… Could the dual AF system be how they are doing 102 AF points?… Just a thought!
Cliff
9 months ago |Not sure why so many people are obsessed with auto focus.
Hell,…some of my favorite lenses are manual focus only.
CDAF,..no….PDAF!!,…NO!!! OMG…DOUBLE PDAF!
What’s next? 3 translucant mirrors with 3 PDAF sensors, combined with a super on-sensor PDAF. This autofocus is so incredible, it could finally bring about world peace!
Oh man,…
Bengt Nyman
9 months ago |Because we are photographing fast moving objects; racing, sports etc. This puts the A99 on my list of possible replacements for my Canon DSLRs.
dagump
9 months ago |There are rumors I like …
But this rumor I fell in love!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
(just for the protocol: I know that rumors are not facts, but it encourages my hope!)
Morten
9 months ago |Have any of you shot with the 1dx? No?
Bengt Nyman
9 months ago |Yes. And we micro adjust every prime lens. And we wish that we could micro adjust multiple focal lengths for every zoom lens. And we wish that we could micro adjust off-center focus points.
Look at the focusing fiasco of the Nikon D800. Canon is not far behind. The mirror has to go. The stationary, translucent mirror technology is only temporary. Final focus shall be done by the image sensor.
Jurka
9 months ago |Canon 650 has this sensors, but af is shit. Panasonic GH2 have not, but af is super!
This is all about marketing ads, we never can check in real life- have sensor those points or not…
Booe
9 months ago |You can figure if sensor has such points or not. If you’re educated enough.
Si
9 months ago |If you add all the SAR rumors for the A99 and they are true and it performs to expectations this is going to be camera of choice for sure.
Si
redfern
9 months ago |Really interesting development. I’m beginning to wonder:
What if the 102pt. AF system consists of 51pts. in a dedicated PDAF block and 51pts. on sensor? When in “mirror” mode, the ones on sensor are either disabled or work with the PDAF block for the fastest possible focus. But when in “mirrorless” mode — where the user removes the mirror — you rely solely on the PDAF/CDAF system on sensor. This way you can get the maximum image quality at the possible expense of some AF speed.
In that way, Sony would be trying to mitigate the major complaint people keep coming up with about the SLT design: that it compromises the low-light ability of otherwise great sensors. I don’t think it’s a perfect solution, but at least it gives people choices, and lately Sony seems all about giving people choices.
Thoughts?
odobo
9 months ago |if this is true, that tells us 2 things:
1) PDAF on CMOS isnt good enough by itself, thats why A99 still needs to be a SLT for the off CMOS phase detection sensor. Hopefully Sony can invent something and figure out how to make it work later
2) the NEX FF camera will probably be the successor of the A99… thats why the rumor for NEX FF is still using a E to A mount adapter to make the NEX FF works the same as the A99 for all A mount lens
Dimitrii1130
9 months ago |i cannot imagine that Nikon will use them in the D600-to good.
but i hope they use the new 16mp sensors in the D7100
Jurka
9 months ago |I shoot video on Panasonic GH, using ND 8 filter. Light loss on mirror is not problem for me, if i have full frame and autofocus, and IS.
But Sony stabilized video electronically, that mean, Sony video will NEVER be full frame! Lets see, how cropped it will be!
john
9 months ago |Very knowledgeable guy from dpreview likes Sony’s PDAF on sensor method better than Nikon’s
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&message=42307038
Mario
9 months ago |I was looking forward for 36MP model, but I’m worried now. If it gonna use same sensor as D800 it would be like lower class than A99.
Hopefully some information about Sony 36MP camera surfaces soon and let it be that its sensor gets same treatment as A99 sensor got.
Keep on Andrea, waiting for new cameras is much more exciting thanks to you.
SonyHemuda
9 months ago |This is going to be the last SLT camera. The flagship FF will be Nex FF and will be named something like Nex-9 or Nex-A9 hybrid system. That is why this FF SLT is named a99.
LAPR
9 months ago |I don’t know how smart or how true that might be, but if you think a bit on that, it actually makes sense. not bad my friend.
wth
9 months ago |OK SONY!!!!
YOU HAVE BACK MY ATTENTION!!!!!!!
AND HERE I WAS THINKING FOR SEVERAL MONTHS, THAT SONY WAS MAKING ANOTHER BAD JOKE!!!!
IF THIS ISN’T TRUE….. IT WOULD BE LIKE THE FAT GUY LETTING OFF A WET FART IN A ELEVATOR!!!!
Jurka
9 months ago |Yeah, smell it!
matgay
9 months ago |if sony invent this then who needs a photographer? every picture will come out perfect focus. just rent the camera and exterminate the photographers
sergei
9 months ago |Really? Perfect focus is all that makes for the best photo?
MPP
9 months ago |I agree with redfern – they should make it possible to “lock up” the mirror out of the way and just use the on sensor PDAF when you need every bit of available light. The mirror would not be able to quickly move up/down like a DSLR at high framerates, if you want high framerates with autofocus then you rely on the translucent mirror PDAF.
redfern
9 months ago |Due to space constraints, I don’t think there is any way to lock up the mirror — it would stick out of the bayonet. BUT giving people the option to remove it altogether and use the camera in PDAF on-sensor mode would at least be something. For most of us, this would probably be plenty fast enough for general shooting (that remains to be seen, of course, but I think it’s fair to assume it would be at least as fast as the best NEX AF).
And when you need more speed, you have the option of putting the mirror back in to have access to all the PDAF capabilities. I don’t think this is ideal, since you have to be careful with that mirror and storing it, but it at least gives you an option for better image quality vs. better speed. Not everyone needs a speed demon, and would rather not sacrifice IQ for speed they don’t use.
It’s all speculation, of course, but I think Sony might be heading in this direction.
Greg
9 months ago |I agree with the best-of-both-worlds logic, but you’ve got your worlds mixed up.
According to everyone on this forum, on-sensor PDAF isn’t slower, it just needs more light. So your “normal” mode would be MIRROR UP. In reduced light, you have to put the mirror back down to get AF, and lose that extra half stop of light in the process. If you kept the mirror out of the way for higher ISO performance, you’d lose AF entirely.
So I’m still confused as to the benefit. As others have said, I bet it’s an incomplete design that didn’t pass muster to remove the mirror, so they stuck it in as-is. Too many design hassles to make the mirror moveable, so I bet we won’t see that.
saiman
9 months ago |Why is it so hard for Sony to facilitate a mirror-up option? With so many different innovative design solutions they provided over they years to so many problems, this one is relatively easy.
Just to remind you Sony’s creative design solutions in the past: they were able to somehow make the top mirror movable and put a second low-res sensor for quick-af live-view.
Now, I understand that the SLT mirror is quite big, but is it really impossible for Sony to accomodate a space and a simple mechanism to first slide the mirorr backwards abit and then flip it up? Since their initial SLT design featured this option in their patent application, they should I think include this option to compensate light loss.
And, now with on sensor PDAF, the mirror-up option becomes even more feasible to include.
LAE
9 months ago |The notation of AF better than the Mk III needs to be accurate. In general the A99 with the 24 MP sensor needs to be better than the Mk III all round, image and low light or it will not sell.
NEX6
9 months ago |Admin
Where is NEX6 ??? any more detailed specs pleaaaaaase
Neal
Matt
9 months ago |Wow, always love the comments on SAR! 1st up, CDAF is not an option for A-Mount as a ‘primary’ focus system, with assistance from on sensor PDAF, especially on an expensive FF model. 2nd PDAF on sensor is not good enough to work as a primary AF system either. However they do have advantages over a dedicated AF sensor, such as better accuracy and no need for AF micro adjust. Sony have made a good move here by using this new technology to augment the existing SLT tech, adding all three together will provide more accurate an faster AF in all lighting conditions than any one of those used alone. My guess is that Sony has taken a lot of bashing for using 30% of the available light for its AF system in the past but don’t want to lose its advantages, by augmenting it with 2 other AF systems they could potentially reduce that light loss to a much lower target, say 10% which in any kind of testing or real world use would be almost negligible!
I would prefer to have very fast and very accurate AF on all lenses and a barely noticeable 10% drop in light, than to have poor AF. To take the car analogy used earlier, this is like having a KERS system or utilizing a hybrid drivetrain to improve performance rather than to make it more green. Knowing how good Sony sensor tech is and knowing this is has a larger pixel pitch than D800 36MP sensor, if this had only 10% light loss compared to 30% of current SLTs this will likely be just as good high ISO as the 5D MkIII and D800, possibly better. For those that that is important to. Plus faster and more accurate AF and higher frame rates. What’s not to like?
Public
9 months ago |Price???
Doug Frost
9 months ago |If they were going to put phase detection on the sensor they should have also included a lock-up option for the semitransparent mirror for those of us who don’t need ultra-fast autofocus all of the time.
Booe
9 months ago |I speculate that Sony prepares ground for 3-CMOS model where mirror is replaced with beamsplitter prism (actually mirrors, cause A-mount lenses won’t work with prism). This provides great SNR, but you have to use on-sensor AF.
With 3-CMOS you get rid of Bayer mask, which robs about 60% of light. And each CMOS can be coated and optimized to suit its decicated waveband. Because pixel crosstalk is less problem, you can pack pixels tigher… No need for AA filter and IR significantly less issue…
Imagine High ISO capability of camera tripled!!
Greg
9 months ago |Um, the FIRST digital SLR to use the A mount was a beamsplitter with a prism, so I’m not sure where you’re getting your facts. And it didn’t sell well.
Google RD-175
Booe
9 months ago |The main problem with RD-175 was a DSLR. It sacrificed optics quality for SLR design. And it had focal reducers which degraded IQ.
I was talking about non-SLR camera with EVF and without focal reducers.
Jugem
9 months ago |It’s not because it makes auto-focus better (though it probably would), they just spent lots of time developing that new FF sensor with pixels for auto-focus and they didn’t make any other types of new FF sensors. So they just put what they have now into a99 – that is the main and only reason.
Dulaney Ward
9 months ago |balderdash!
hanugro
9 months ago |Right, as predicted A-mount is going mirrorless in 5 years time. This is small step towards that.
Craig
9 months ago |So a I see a whole bunch of topic replies about faster and more accurate AF and a whole lot of pre-release celebration over what may be… However… If I still have to hunt through a menu to change metering modes, all that time that the fast AF saves is lost… I want manual controls people, just like my KM 7D… rant over…
Somebody
9 months ago |Would this explain why A99 has 102 point focus? (A huge array of pdaf pixels’ area)
Vladimir
9 months ago |I waited Sony, but soon high megapixels Canon EOS-3D X and EOS-7D Mark II
Caterpillar
9 months ago |I wonder. What makes us think that this A99 is an SLT? What if there is no pellicle mirror there at all? What if the A99 is mirrorless camera in DSLR form that accepts alpha lenses?
Instead of trying to figure out how 2 PDAF in the body, why not consider that they will only be in the sensor? Why not consider that the A99 simply go straight to the heart of it all and introduces a mirrorless 35FF camera in a dslr form. That is not far off to consider. After all, the GH2 is such a camera.
If we look at it from this POV, then, wouldn’t that, in one stroke, be the revolution that Andrea is talking about? Wouldn’t this just bypass all the crud and baggage of DSLRs and be that first 35mm FF sensor camera?
The only thing not going for it on the outset is that its form factor is still a DSLR. And it will not be small. But being the first, and a start, it would still be a game changer. It would be a break with the past, but still use the past. The Alpha lenses are all there in its glory to use. The intro to 35FF mirrorless is sudden but well supported.
The clincher would be if they sell this for only U$1,800-1990.
There is only 1 glitch I see in all this. If the PDAF is in the sensor, what happens now to IBIS? How would that play out when the PDAF is on the sensor? To me, that is a one major niggle that may not make this speculation true; unless Sony is willing to drop IBIS for in-sensor PDAF.
Booe
9 months ago |Um, it’s like “wireless cable TV”
No one cares about internals of DSLR, they only care for “DSLR = serious photography”
hanugro
9 months ago |That is the future surely. I personally think the technology is not ready yet this time around. But by the time they refresh it again in 3-4 years then A-mount may be completely mirrorless. But I seriously think the first mirrorless A-mount will come in A5x class camera.
joki
9 months ago |Sorry Guys to interrupt thsi Discussion with a different Question. I´m new here, but I study that Site since several Monthes and every Day. With all that Rumors, News ect. I lost the Orientation when the Launch of this A99 will be or is planned to be?
End August, October??
Maybe someone remember and can let us know.
regards
Michael
fotowolf61
9 months ago |Photokina 2012
Ncguy
9 months ago |So when is this mythical camera ever going to be revealed? You say Photokina, but…
JAQ
9 months ago |Can anyone enlight me on Sony’s game plan to capture the professional news and sports photography market (and that of wedding and corporate photographers as well) with the EVF? Will EVF soon allow following the subject whilst shooting at high frame rates? Some extrapolation software that elaborates frames captured? But how would it deal with gravity (imagine shooting pool diving contest).
I do not understand why Sony makes so much investment in cameras that currently are of little use for proper action photography. News and sports photographers are also very useful for branding.
Thanks
DS
9 months ago |The photographer teams (including Nikon and Canon teams) shooting at olympics 2012, were given a chance to try out the 36MP Sony SLT 99.