(SR5) Sony says it: All future Alpha cameras will be translucent!
Image credit: Quesabesde
Those nice guys from Quesabesde (Click here) managed it to squeeze out a very hot statement from Sony! They received an official Sony statement saying that all future Alpha models (APS-C and Fulflrame!) will be translucent! What do you think about that?
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Sky_walker
2 years ago |boooo……. :/
But well, let’s see what future brings cause IMO with A55 it’s bit too early to judge whatever it’s uber-bad news or just bad news. Future EVF might reduce the disadvantages it has… or maybe the hybrid VF will come?
Either way – great finding! It’s gonna shake the world a bit, hehe, if it’s now 100% official at all price ranges.
Ryan
2 years ago |I probably won’t miss an optical viewfinder, because I probably won’t stick with a “consumer grade only” camera company. I can see the resale value on my lenses plummeting on this news.
Has Sony indicated when they might make another camera for PHOTOGRAPHERS?
EG
2 years ago |Very bad news!
I like to photograph what I see… optically… not using an EVF… that’s too electronical.
Ok… bye bye Sony! Good luck!
SonyA77
2 years ago |But then the sensor doesn’t record what YOU see anyway, so why for that particular example would it matter whether you used an EVF or OVF? Either way the picture will not be what you saw through the view finder…
Steve Jones
2 years ago |Ah but you don’t photograph what you see – you photograph what the sensor sees. In principle, and EVF is the only thing that can show that.
EG
2 years ago |My answer for you is many commets down stairs.
omox
2 years ago |Good point!
Since my first digital camera I stopped using OVF and never regret it.
EVF is the future no matter what.
Geir Eivind Mork
2 years ago |Wonderful, I’m in the marked for a new body in around summer 2012. So if that means I have the choice between the new a77 and a99 I would be thrilled (And a bit concern on what to choose). SLT and later PD-on-sensor is the way to progress forward. I would never want to buy a regular SLR again, given the choice.
Quite ironic people complain. I’ve never heard anyone complain about not having a optical viewfinder on their camcorder – not even in film class. But when it comes to still camera, it’s suddenly a bad thing.
dude
2 years ago |Because a videographer never has seen a optical finder?
The OVF of entry level cameras aren’t that great.
Even the A700 one is not impressive.
But the FF models just have such lovely OVFs.
With the OVF there is no problem with high fps shooting, rolling shutter or internal reflections.
The EVF in A33 and A55 are said to show a less attractive image than the sensor captures afterwards.
Of cause this is only a mater of technological development.
I even heard people say, they believe an EVF will harm their eyes more than an OVF.
It’s not a matter if this is true or not, but that these people wont buy Sony as long as C&N offer equal priced OVF cameras.
mike_2008
2 years ago |Andrea you need a third option on the poll:
I do not have enough information to decide, as I have not yet used an A77 EVF
Skydiver87
2 years ago |I think this vote at this time is much too early. We all do not know exactly what’s built into the A77.
SonyA77
2 years ago |EXACTLY, people bitching about something they have not seen. It might be rubbish, it might be the same as the A55, it might be BETTER than an OVF.
Vlad
2 years ago |Doubtful it will be better than an OVF. Not a smart move from Sony.
SonyA77
2 years ago |I think the EVF will attract people, not put them off. This *is* a smart move by Sony. The A55 is flying off the shelf, they just need something to compete with the D90/D7000/60D now and the A77 rumoured spec is ideal.
I will say it again, Sony aren’t interested in the traditional OVF old farts in the Canikon camp, they are creating a NEW market of NEW users, using NEW technology.
Don’t like it? Use an old technology Canikon.
Vlad
2 years ago |You seem very pushy.
“Sony aren’t interested in the traditional OVF old farts in the Canikon camp, they are creating a NEW market of NEW users, using NEW technology.”
First, I am pretty sure you have no idea what Sony are interested in, second, creating a new market for new people using a new technology can be very risky.
Admittedly, the EVF sells very well to consumers, but you can’t extrapolate that to pro users that easily. There are 2 considerations in pro gear – best possible IQ and best possible usability. Putting an SLT model there would mean that they address those 2 considerations with 2 non-mature technologies. The translucent mirror has its issues (admittedly very small ones, but issues nonetheless) and the EVF is not yet on par with OVFs for many types of professional uses. Add to that the fact that Sony already alienated a lot of its pro users with the lack of A700 successor and that some people just aren’t ready to make the switch. I see you laughing at those people all over the comment section, but you forget that this means less money for Sony. Not to mention pros are a much more stable market share. If you do love Sony so much, then you should probably try to help those people understand what the new technology is all about, no?
What I am saying in the end is that in the current conditions it is way too early for Sony to make such a move.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“Doubtful it will be better than an OVF. Not a smart move from Sony.”
“I think the EVF will attract people, not put them off.”
These both are true and none exclude each other. For many ppl the EVF will be an advantage – especially in entry level and video-photographers. But for others it’ll be a disadvantage from a basic principle of not being in direct contact with your subject. There’s different way of making photos if you look at the screen instead of person you take photos of. That’s what most painful for me aside from technical problems with A55 EVF.
I wouldn’t call the OVF so old tech though – the EVF is quite old too, it’s been for ages in camcoders, and for few years already in compact cameras. This “old technology” of yours is currently far more superior to any “future tech” if you consider full frame camera with real viewfinder, not pentamirror one.
Vlad
2 years ago |I clarified my comment above
Sky_walker
2 years ago |nice… very good points raised. Even Sony representative himself told that the EVFs ain’t in pair against the OVF of FF cameras.
Daniel
2 years ago |Vlad, Sky_walker, you are both so right..but what’s the point!? Ater all, many of those who post right here might have never used the a850/900, might have never worked with a pentaprism as part of the OVF system, with more than 98% coverage and serious magnification as well.
Look at these silly comments above saying that what you see on the EVF is the same imgage from the sensor.
Ok, true, but that image might be far from accurate, don’t you think!?
They make me laugh my ass. Seriously…that tiny display might work in real time with the sensor, but the real imgage itself, the one in front of your lens, might end up quite different in the final output. The color accuracy and lots of other things could be, and based on what I’ve seen so far, are/looka tiny bit different in the EVF.
If you look through the OVF, the FF one, you know how you want your image to look like, space, shadows, light reflections look as they really are. The image isn’t warmer, not colder than it should look like, just as you see it. So when you take the shot and review it on the back LCD you imediatley notice the differences. You know in an instant what needs to be changed. And that’s becouse you saw the real thing through the OVF, not the sensor reading, in practice that makes a huge difference at times.
For guys who take their work seriously the EVF is going to be a deal breaker. Even if the metering of the camera would be almost perfect there are moments when you need to see the subject as it is, TTL, not throgh the sensor’s reading.
It’s human eye perception of an image seen through a glass arangement vs human eye perception of the sensor’s perception of the image seen through the glass(and thus presented to you on a display).
I trust my eye vision before the sensors reading. With an EVF you would need to teach me how to ignore one of my senses:))
I’d make a bet with you guys that many people who post right here have never bought a serious pro printer and never have they calibrated an LCD for the right color accuracy so what they print looks the same as what they see on the display.
Michael
2 years ago |I am really upset with this move.
I have an a900 and had the a550 for a while…. this isnt good move.
SO i might as well start buying some Canon L lenses and sell my Zeiss Glass….. BLAH SO STUPID!
SonyA77
2 years ago |What’s your eBay ID?
Vlad
2 years ago |You are going to buy?
SonyA77
2 years ago |The A77 or lenses? I am always in the market for good glass! Assuming the A77 gets good reviews, I’ll be buying it.
Andrew Anderson
2 years ago |OK…..I don’t mind but flip the damn mirror. That is something bothering me due to light loss. Light is important for me. I do not care about your JPEG engine…I shoot RAW. Although I highly appreciate the fastest and most accurate AF system SONY implemented in its recent SLT cameras.
Miserere
2 years ago |Did your camera stop working today? Is that why you’re selling your lenses? I’m just curious.
Lloyd Grace
2 years ago |Nikon – here I come!
SonyA77
2 years ago |Bye! You are making a mistake IMO.
Long live analogic
2 years ago |BUHHHHHHHHHHHH with this digital crap, let’s get back to film!!!!! I still miss it.
Skydiver87
2 years ago |I think we should give Sony a chance. Perhaps, the long development time and the wait paid off, and Sony has something far better than the current EVF of the A55/33. Sony has always been a pioneer of new technologies and has always done it’s way to the top of a particular industry with new technologies. I will in any case wait for the publication of the A77 and read forward to the first tests on the new EVF. At the moment I am still of the opinion that there is nothing better than a OFV, but maybe Sony comes with a ground-breaking reinvention.
Ryan
2 years ago |I’ve heard that sentiment for 5 years, give them a chance. How about they give Pros a camera they want to use?
They’ve released exactly 3 “high end” cameras and about 2 dozen beginner SLRs in 5 years. And launched a new range of beginner cameras that are supposed to be selling like crazy, but I still haven’t seen one that I could play with.
And now they’re SR5 rumored to tell us that the follow ups to even those 3 high end cameras are going to abandon 50 years of SLR design evolution for what is essentially camcorder technology. I fear it will be as successful as Betamax and MiniDisc, and that the Sony collective brain is just technology-drunk right now with 3DTV, SLT, NEX, Make.Believe. Everything for consumers, nothing for pros.
Helena
2 years ago |I miss a third option: “I will miss optical viewfinders but EVF is the future and a will be a better solution with adecuate resolution”
Sorry for my english!
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Resolution actually is one of least important issues with EVF
I can live with A55 resolution anytime, all the other factors though breaks the fun a bit.
Knurd
2 years ago |I’m sure Sony will get more business from people wanting an EVF than the old farts, afraid of progress, jumping ship. I actually like te EVF (although it obviously does need work but its not bad for a first try) because I can see what I’m shooting more accurately, which allows me to be more creative, faster and working the shutter a lot less – extending the life of my camera. And it also means smaller and cheaper cameras. I say go for it Sony.
RB
2 years ago |Listen, Sony, you have convinced me with the a900 and meanwhile I have invested about ~10.000 € in the body and lenses. And I have some other glasses on my shopping list, namely (as of today) 2,8/70-200, 1,8/135 SSM, 2,0/24, 2,8/20, and new version 2x TC. I would hate it if you would become a second Leica to me.
So, please don’t disappoint me!
Doug
2 years ago |This is bad news, however I’m willing to withhold final judgment until I see the replacement for the a900. But if there’s any degradation of sharpness or brightness in the next FF’s viewfinder there’s going to be hell to pay.
hansen
2 years ago |Oh f….! That’s not good. I’m not shure if i want a Electronic View Finder. I prevere the optical one.
Sony sleeping with the succssor of the A700. Not shure what they will do with the Full Frame DSLR.
I think i will change to the other one! They are not only producing low level cameras. Ok i was starting with a entry level DSLR but also when i buy my first entry level dslr i was looking what will be there in the upper level. There was the a700 and a900. I was thinking sony i new in the DSLR Sector and they will go forward. But at the momend i can’t see this.
VT
2 years ago |I’m waiting for the full-frame replacement, but if it is a SLT with permanently fixed mirror, I’ll have to switch system, though I own more than 20k of lenses & equipments.
EE
2 years ago |FNALLY–now the debate over what viewfinder is better or worse than another can finally end, it’s decided: Electronic viewfinder wins.
I’m happy to see Sony made this bold move, instead of delaying the technology to coddle dinosaur photog’s who flat out refuse to join the future.
To those, I say this: Go join Canon, you’ll love their lack of innovation. They wont be doing EVF for years, trust that.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“now the debate over what viewfinder is better or worse than another can finally end” – oh… you are greatly mistaken. It has just begun, and entered completely new dimension
(and noone will care if they are right about it or not)
- now the Canikon fanatics will have new weapon against Sony in argumentation why A-bayonet things stink.
c preece
2 years ago |Doh…if your switching systems because you don’t want EVF why would it matter if Canon never goes there?
Daniel
2 years ago |Canon has a very complete and competitive system with cameras and lenses that suit every kind of consumer needs. So does Nikon you…I’ve bitten my tongue instead of calling you names. But you deserve to!!!
Sony was unable to build as fast as they should on the Minolta legacy in order to play a major role in the photography bussines. They tried everything so far. Launched an armada of models(beginer and intermediate). They relabeled existing Minoltas first, relabeled even Tamrons after and built a few brand new lenses.
The Zeiss move made them look real cool.
They say SLT will change the game. Maybe true, perhaps it will, but the EVF is a major drawback in higher-end cameras…
Look at Sony’s lineup of lenses. There are many longer focal lengths still missing from the lineup for years now.
There are also some dedicated macros and better wide-angle missing(APSC fast zoom wide-angle for example).
All of you dummies act as the EVF is the holy grail of photography, as if it would automatically turn your photos into loking better…some news to you desperate innovation freaks, it won’t. SLT by itself is not enough. You know shit.
What was meant to be a shortcut into producing an advanced autofocusing system capable of high performance caused this never ending debate in which each shithead will say “Look, the holy grail of photography has Sony’s trademark!!”
All of you people act as if other problems are gone when you put an EVF on top of a camera.
You should start screaming “It’s now even better than a Hasselblad!! It has an EVF of course, you dinosaurs!!”
Lloyd Grace
2 years ago |Old farts . . . coddling dinosaurs?
Just because something is newer, doesn’t mean it’s better.
Just because it exists doesn’t mean it’s better. There is NO WAY an electronically generated image can be as ACCURATE as the real thing. It’s pretty simple. If we are so unwilling to change, we wouldn’t be using DSLRs. Nobody is ripping on you for your opinion.
smallmartin
2 years ago |@Lloyd : Really? When there is not enough light for OVF, you can still see things in an EVF. Things that your sensor can see.
The OVF is just an optical trick tu be able to see what a photographic film can see. One don’t need it anymore now. We need to see what the sensor sees. So we just need to ask the sensor what it sees.
EG
2 years ago |Daniel
2 years ago |Spot on, EG !!
RB
2 years ago |I’m with EG, these were my first thoughts, too. He was just faster to reply
What makes the X-100 so desirable to real photographers is that it gives you a “hole” to look through and the tools to record what you see. And tools mean: A frame, which simulates the position of the recording device (sensor or formerly film) and the knobs and handles and wheels to condition the light before it hits the recording device. It’s the photographer who makes the photo, not the camera. That’s a totally different approach to these fully automated bastards, where the camera makes the picture…
I admit, from an engineer’s point of view, the SLT/EVF is better, no question. But that’s not the whole story…
dude
2 years ago |“the real thing” can’t be shown by EVF or OVF.
Some day an EFV will reach over the resolution and dynamic limit of your eyes.
Than you wont recognize a difference.
-> saying that without rooting for EVF …
00aeiou00
2 years ago |“There is NO WAY an electronically generated image can be as ACCURATE as the real thing”…this is simply not true.
Try doing some astronomy with your naked eye versus a CCD, and tell me which is more ACCURATE. Try going out to war at night with your naked eye versus an IR scope, and tell me which is more ACCURATE. Try going out and manualing focusing on kids running around versus using autofocus and tell me which is more ACCURATE.
Your eye is simply the latest version of a technology that was developed over millions of years to convert photons into electrical impulses, exactly as sensors are an extension of this now.
In fifty, or a hundred, or even in a thousand years, do you honestly think the lion´s share of photographers are going to still be framing pictures with prisms? I do not.
EG
2 years ago |yes, some day some day… I dont want to be a guinea pig for Sony!
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“Try doing some astronomy with your naked eye versus a CCD, and tell me which is more ACCURATE. Try going out to war at night with your naked eye versus an IR scope, and tell me which is more ACCURATE”
- Now try making sex by watching it on TV. For some it might be what they want but…. well, hope you get the comparison.
omox
2 years ago |What the brilliant answer!
00aeiou00, You are absolutely right in what You are saying!
Anyway great discussion. Fun to read.
People don’t like changes… pity…
Steve Jones
2 years ago |EVFs will all but replace optical viewfinders at some point, even on top end gear. Get used to the idea. There are simply too many advantages with electronic viewfinders. Higher frame rate, less noise, less mechanical complexity, more information in the viewfinder, more accurate representation of the image to be taken, zoom-in for finer focusing, better low light visibility, reduced weight.
I recall photographers decrying auto-focus, digital imaging, zoom lenses and any number of other, more minor enhancements that are now common place.
What people forget is that it’s the sensor and camera electronics that takes the photo, not the photographers eye. An OVF can never, ever show that.
Yes, so you’re a dinosaur, but even they evolved into birds, so there’s hope yet.
nb. EVFs do not, necessarily, mean SLT of course.
john
2 years ago |nb. EVFs do not, necessarily, mean SLT of course.
AMEN
Bring on A-mount Mirrorless
I wonder what all the “PROS” and OpticalViewFanatics will say when Leica bring out an EVF of their own
EG
2 years ago |If that happens (but I don’t believe so because is not in the philosophy of the company) that will be a civil war my friend. What could be is an HVF.
Francisco
2 years ago |The thing is that what matters in the end the final picture, not if it was taken through an EVF or OVF. Stop whining.
RB
2 years ago |If you just press (randomly) the button and let the camera do the rest, that’s correct.
For real photographers, the image starts with imagination. Imagination of how the final picture will look like. This includes development / post-processing of the image. The Camera/EVF can’t show you the latter one — but your imagination does. Why shall the in-camera image-processing shall interfere with your imagination?
Scip
2 years ago |Will keep an eye out on ebay, it seems alot of people are gonna jump ship. Lol
Personally i think it is a good thing that sony is droping optical viewfinder for electronic one.
The only downside to EV is the black out between shoots, but i am sure sony will find a way to over come this in next crop of cameras.
Apart from this EVs are better than their optical counter parts in every aspect, they are better for low light photography, you can shot video through the view finder and always 100% image, plus what you see is what you get.
I could go on and on.
Ryan
2 years ago |“The only downside to EV is the black out between shoots”
Wait, I thought most of the POINT of EVF is that it DOESN’T black out between shots?
00aeiou00
2 years ago |This is going to be awesome!! All these people selling their lens, Im going to get some really nice ones for pennies on the dollar!! Send us your ebay details for the large lots okay. I love the advantages that SLT has over glass. I say, Sony, go for it, I´ll buy two a99´s!!!
SonyA77
2 years ago |Indeed, hopefully they will jump ship and give me plenty of bargain glass for my new shiny A77
I’ll be laughing at them stuck with slow fps, slow video AF, jerky live-view and dark OVFs!!
Sergei Zhukov
2 years ago |Not to offense you, have you tried anything new from Nikon (D7000) or even old D700?
I bought a580 after trying the a55, they are both good, but for some reason a slower A850 wipes them out when it comes to real life shooting in speed of operation, accuracy and results. I like Optical View finders and see a potential in EVF but killing OVF completely is too much. I’m not going to jump ship – I’ll use the gear for a full cycle it is designed for and will replace it by something appropriate, even it will only exist in another brand. I am a photographer in the first place.
alex
2 years ago |that really sucks..
mike_2008
2 years ago |how do you know? have you tried the A77 EVF yet?
Sky_walker
2 years ago |How do you know A79, A88, A99, A102131243 gonna change the fact it sux?
Marek
2 years ago |We are all looking at photos on computer screens which have resolution about 1400×1000 pixels. And nobody complains about resolution being low for that. So if Sony manages to put similar resolution into EVF then problem is solved. It requires fast electronics and damn small display with high resolution but I think current tech can do it. So let’s hope Sony will make it right.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Don’t do the Megapixel race mistake again, please. Resolution isn’t the major factor in EVF, not any more.
EG
2 years ago |Here we are not talking about partial results (for me the real picture is always printed, not watched on a screen), we are talking about the way we shoot pictures… that’s very different and you can do that with OVF or EVF or even now with HVF. Each system has advantages and disadvantages, but resolution is not the main point with EVF. The point for me is if you lose or not direct contact with your subject. You could have the best resolution but your contact will be still indirect. With OVF in a SLR or a DSLR you need a mirror… well, that’s ok, but it’s still not the best for me because there is something in between… for me the best are direct viewfinders, for example Leica external viewfinders… they are crystal clear without things perturbing your sight, so you have excellent view of your subject.
Imagine someday cars won’t have windshields, but a screen with much information and a super resolution. Maybe that could help for night driving, but if I take a scenery road on day I want to see the real thing, not an image on a screen because finally I know that it’s only a screen. So, we are talking about feeling, and for a photographer feeling is important. That’s my opinion. If you like EVF that’s ok… but I’m going to look for a company that gives me OVF.
omox
2 years ago |these EVFs are already there
Daisy
2 years ago |shit, even fullframe?!
EVF is a great replacement for small crappy APS-C viewfinders. But those who never used a gorgeous large and bright fullframe OVF don’t know what they’re missing.
AMW-Chef
2 years ago |Personally I’m going to wait till Imamura says it. Sony Spain is a renegade division in many ways.
If true that’s the way it is, nothing anyone can do about it.
Sergei Zhukov
2 years ago |That’s really sad – photography requires pre visualization, Optical view finder is excellent for this exercise, let our brain do it – not the camera.
Run two lines of products: high end models with optical design for photographers and the EVF for anyone enjoying HD video and other new technologies.
My only praise and request is including a tilt screen with live view on FF for some hard composition work, but I can live without it.
Sky_walker
2 years ago |As far as I know that it’s not gonna happen:
“Run two lines of products: high end models with optical design for photographers and the EVF for anyone enjoying HD video and other new technologies.”
^ THIS, THIS, and one more time: THIS.
Sony, you could produce 3, three lines of stupid entry level cameras for ages, and now you can’t build only 2 lines of cameras, especially if you did it already with A580 showing that if you want – you can do this?
Sad….
Adi
2 years ago |How about the production cost did you think about it ? Easy to say, but what you say may add 30 % in the price of every camera (I mean the ones in 2-3 different lines). Let’s say they will lose 5 % of customers (the hard core , old style photographers) but they may gain 20% customers because the lower price. The numbers I put are empirical of course but I’m sure somebody at Sony did has the real ones.
For me as a customer, if Sony provides a DSLR with the same performance and characteristics, and price range as Canikon, why I would buy a Sony (and not a Canikon, which has a bigger market share) ? Somy MUST diferentiate in a very big way to attract new customers. DSLTs do this. DSLRs do not.
RB
2 years ago |Again, the question is what Sony wants: Do they want to be perceived as a “Cybershot Plus Company” (“the Cybershot generation is growing up”, as Francisco said) or as a serious professional camera maker (as seen in the evening news each night) which sells affordable entry level cameras, too? In the former case, you’re right, and they can pulverize their Zeiss and G lenses (at Sonystyle Europe, there are already big holes in the shelf…), as those people hardly will buy them. In the latter case, they need cameras which attract pros and folks which are willing to buy their high-end glass….
xylum
2 years ago |@Zhukov – Yes run 2 lines of products but
High end models with EVF
Lowend with legacy viewfinders which are detached from reality of digital image finder.
Lol, you want EVF display on FF??? What happened to your OVF????
Reality is that for all critical work EVF/Live view is much better than legacy viewfinders (which takes an alternate visual path)
nevr
2 years ago |F**k! It is a good reason to change a system
Sky_walker
2 years ago |Ok, looks like the local Prophets has already seen the end of OVF.
Let me tell you something.
Do you know what’s the Rangefinder camera? You see some time ago it was the only way to achieve what we call now a “compact camera” – it was very light and small camera that you could pick with you everywhere, use different lenses, films, and so on. You see, one would thought that when the digital compact crap-cameras came onto the market the rangefinders would die in seconds, especially cause even during the film era they weren’t as popular as regular SLRs. Well, guess what? Pro photographers run now with stuff like Leica M9 and in merely days we gonna see X100 being new tech breakthrough for these. And so the rangefinders kept their part of market, maybe focused bit more on pros than ever but the outpost still stands.
You see – never call a death of something that’s one of basic people needs – being in contact. Cause that’s what you get in classical DSLR vs EVF DSLR. That’s what you get in rangefinder vs compact camera. A pleasure of being there in contact with your subject is a great force – perhaps one day some of you gonna understand it.
Also when you’ll get old perhaps you too gonna understand that looking on the electronic displays all day long, even when doing your hobby, isn’t good nor healthy.
(BTW: right now I feel like a minority, but I got to take photos in order to breath fresh air and rest from LCD. Not to breath fresh air while looking at yet another stupid screen – that’s why I don’t have Sony NEX nor am interested in it)
(BTW BTW: no, I’m not old, though years of work in front of PC let me know this part bit sooner)
knurd
2 years ago |Aaaaaaand M9 and those others are a niche market. Sony is looking to make money and progress. Someone on here already put it best: Sony is not looking to compete with Canikon but lead in a new market. If I worked for Sony and read responses from current Sony users bitching and complaining about how Sony needs to be more competitive and step up their game then of course I’d decide to go after a different market that will appreciate an innovative product. Big fish small pond…or, only fish different lake.
Also, why is everyone saying that you lose touch with your subject with an EVF. Personally I felt I was not connecting by hiding behind a camera with one eye closed, squinting and then looking to see what I shot and realized I was under or over-exposed. Viewing from a 3″ screen that tilts and having realtime view of how my picture will turn out leaves me more time to interact with the subject and get the shot I want. I’m not saying you’re wrong because you sound like you’re from an oldschool of photography, but I’m only supporting my “new market – not competing with a current market” argument.
Sony should have a split in each line of their cameras – DSLR and SLT. There’s no reason to have 3 of the same camera with only slightly different specs.
Vlad
2 years ago |“If I worked for Sony and read responses from current Sony users bitching and complaining about how Sony needs to be more competitive and step up their game then of course I’d decide to go after a different market that will appreciate an innovative product.”
Good luck with that kind of thinking.
knurd
2 years ago |Obviously you missed my point. There’s only so much that companies can do now with current DSLR technology. How would Sony win at this game vs Canikon so late in the game when Canikon have a solid base? They can’t. This move by Sony IS upping their game BY taking a completely different approach. Peoples suggestions can move a company for so long until they just start saying, “Why don’t you do what the other guy is doing?”. Large companies like this can’t survive by following the crowd unless there is major demand. When a market is over-saturated (like it is now with DSLRs) then you start telling people what they need by starting something new a fresh. It’s this kind of thinking that paves the way for innovation and progress. Even if Sony majorly fails, at least this will wake up other companies to get better cameras out. The last 2 years have been a joke with very little happening in DSLR technology. There needs to be a shift.
Francisco
2 years ago |I wholeheartedly agree with you! Sony took the best choice! Their choices were: do what ever Canikon was doing, or innovate with new tech, and they have made the correct decision! Personally I’m also much more comfortable composing the scene using the LCD’s, it just feels much more natural for me: I’m a guy who owned a Sony Cybershot as a kid. I never really liked using OVF’s in my digital cameras (seems to me it is a relic of the film age), and I’m pretty sure Sony research department found out that lots of people think the same!
Vlad
2 years ago |Look, I have no problem with Sony following this path. At some point EVFs will be the standard, like it or not. But they are far from being ready. I said it in one of my comments above – both SLT and EVF are not mature enough to be put on the pro market. It is quite obvious even from the comments here that there will be a problem with the adoption.
Now, if Sony doesn’t care about the pro market, then this move is surely ok. If they do care though, it is just too early.
As I believe that the pro market is of utter importance, I really do not see how they are upping their game. They are doing exactly the opposite. There is just no such thing as “forget about those bitching customers, we will target those who understand innovation”. They will lose their current customers with the hope that some unidentified others will adopt a new technology that isn’t ready yet? And that after 4 years of not having a successor to the A700?
I have no idea what do you want to be happening in the DSLR market. In the last 2 years we got much more affordable cameras and great improvements in sensors.
EG
2 years ago |I don’t know other people, but let me explain why I talked about losing contact with the subject: I use mainly two cameras: A Leica film rangefinder and a Sony DSLR. Sometimes I use also a medium format film camera as well. What I can tell you from my experience is that my better pictures are generally with the Leica. Why? I guess it’s because I use an external viewfinder 1:1… it’s crystal clear…cero information… only the scene framed by bright lines, so I’m absolutely concentrated in my subject, I’m always in contact… you shoot and you don’t have to check your image… you only keep shooting… It’s Zen my friend. It’s not for gameboyers for sure. With that kind of viewfinder you don’t need to close an eye… you shoot with both eyes wide open. So “old school” against “new school” without knowing or experiencing these things is not fair.
What I see in pool is 58% of people saying they will miss the OVF in Sony cameras, you have there a real voice. 42% in the other way is also a voice. If Sony don’t want to hear what that means it’s their problem.
Daniel
2 years ago |42% have chosen somewhat of a given answer…not what I would call fair!! Admin, in your opinion, are there any advantages to OVF left?!
These rumors start to look like commercials sometimes:))
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“It’s Zen my friend. It’s not for gameboyers for sure.”
^ This, this, this.
“So “old school” against “new school” without knowing or experiencing these things is not fair.”
^ Very true. I grown up in a photography using pentamirror DSLR, so I’m not really an “old school” shooter, but using BEST of classical DSLRs completely changes point of view on some things, certainly one of it being LCD-photography. You can’t say that the EVF or rear LCD is better or even best for shooting if you haven’t got a chance to shoot with A900 for longer than one day or use an old pentaprism film SLR. There’s completely different world and different kind of contact with a subject.
I (perhaps: sadly) don’t see any way how LCD-shooting can make you being in contact with a subject more than good OVF shooting does.
Daniel
2 years ago |Hmmm…I don’t know what to make of this. First, this is Sony Spain…so untill I hear something from their camera division…
On the other hand, if this is true, if this is THE official point of view from Sony, I’m more than upset. Not by the message itself, about translucent and EVF. I will be wise and patient enough to see what the future holds.
But this is the worst, I really mean it, the worst marketing ever.
I really hope that this guy speaks only on his behalf, and is not appointed, delegate to do so by the digital camera division, in their behalf or with their knowledge, which as we know is stationed in Japan.
There have already been two shows at which Sony could have said something about their future schedule on FF, or a program regarding the entire Alpha line of products, and they haven’t. They haven’t announced anything on FF, no release date for the A77, no guidline for the FF future program, nothing for sure, just a more “anvanced” mockup of the A77 which proves it is almost ready.
This would be by far the biggest arrogance to date by this company . To let us know about their future regarding DSLR or SLT in this manner is a big shame.
I have nothing against an SLT future for Sony. If it doesn’t work for me that’s ok, I can chose another brand, no problem, even if I’m heavily invested in lenses and flashes. No problem at all.
But if they wasted so many chances to say it outloud, to organize a press conference especially for this and to make it clear for everyone about the near future of certain products…such a dissapointment!!!!
I don’t care right now about any talk about EVF which I certainly dislike. I see that Sony doesn’t give a flying f***k about their costumers.
I said this before that it has been proven to us that they have the worst marketing ever. Last year and the last few months just made me feel this way.
They are so “committed” to their costumers that they’ve let the guy from Spain say outloud…he’s only an executive in chaerge of salles in Spain. They have no DSLR/SLT production or development facilities in Spain.
This guy is way out of his league. But he is says it’s official..
We have a two case scenario, either he got caught in the moment and his mouth went ahead of himself with an annoucement that was supposed to be made official sometime later, maybe after all of us would have had a contact with the A77, one that would have given them a very pozitive feedback, or this is done with intention from another level to see the feedback on different forums such as this one.
No one is going to officialy deny this from Sony, they’ll be waiting in silence untill april I guess when thay will host some press coference for the MEX launch.
Sony, are you listening!? Stop playing. Find a real MAN among your offcials, organize a press conference and say it outloud if this is the case.
Do you really care about us or are you only looking at salles feagures!? What the f***k is this!?
I’m tirred of all of Sony’s sick jokes. And some guy on another topic felt offended that I said that other manufacturers are “more committed”..
If something will make me chose to work with Canon at some point it will be shit like this, not the EVF itself!!!!!!
Years of missleading your own costumers, not having someone to say an exact release date, not a clue on the future of some models for years, nothing sure about FF, just rumors and mockups and semi-official announcements and comments made in interviews which might or might not turn out to be the exact very truth.
shammyB
2 years ago |Doesn’t really matter to me whether its OVF or EVF, as I always look at the scene with my Mk 1 eyeball before I raise the camera, and thats my indication of choice.
However, if they want to keep the most people happy (i.e. both photographers and video users) whilst still going with translucent technology, I think the ability to flip up the mirror in single shot advance mode is the single concession they need to make.
That way, we always get the best of all worlds *in the final image*, which is really what this is all about.
EG
2 years ago |For all who are saying EVF is the future… I don’t have a cristal ball to say that, but I have a fact in mind: the hybrid viewfinder… there you have the best of both worlds and I bet that will be the future… Thanks Fuji!
Markus
2 years ago |history repeats itself
in the 80s all said, AF is crap, now everione is crying if they have no AF during video. some years later all said digital photography is bullshit, now?? then all guys said, we don’t need video in our photocams, now a manufacturer without video is a looser! now almost all ar bashing a EVF who isnt even on the market… thats not what i call professional and innovative users… so wait and see, what sony brings out next!! maybe we can reed then on the canon and nikon forums”… good for sony, bad for uns…”
Come down guys, time does not stand still! if you want no progress, you buy an analog thing with MF and manual F!
Vlad
2 years ago |Markus, AF is a really bad example, because we didn’t lose MF. In this case you are losing OVF.
And while I do think that EVF is the future, it is not up to the task yet.
Markus
2 years ago |Hey Vlad
We’re just at the beginning. Schaut nach vorn, sonst stolpert man schnell…
Vlad
2 years ago |That is precisely the problem – it is too early for such a move. (sorry, don’t know german or whatever language this is)
JB
2 years ago |+1
Sony should give us a choice, OVF or EVF. Not just one way or the highway.
RB
2 years ago |Well, I think it’s high time that Sony shows us what they understand by a decent EVF. Delaying the successor of a DSLR is one thing; making people nerveous another…
Markus
2 years ago |Who makes you more nervous? Sony or disskussionen in the forums? Be honest;-)
RB
2 years ago |Being honest? It’s Sony. I don’t care for the discussions in the forums about rumors. I have invested in the a900 as there was no user base for the a900 and all Canikon-Fanboys said the a900 would be crap. So, there was a stand-alone super-star from a newbie to the camera business with a reduced set of lenses. We had to decide for ourself, whether this is just the beginning of a great future — or whether is is just a flash in the pan. This decision isn’t that hard if we talk about entry level stuff (and prices) — but you need a lot of confidence when we are talking high-end stuff and related prices. In the next few years (let’s count from the release of the a700 on) Sony didn’t make any clear statement regarding the future of the top-level lines. They have shown us tons of cheap plastic cameras (there’s nothing wrong with it for making money!) — but they gave us the impression that they have abandonned the upper lines: No new upper level model, no future road map, nothing. Just a mockup and the words that the successor of the a700 would be amazing.
They show us two entry level cameras with brand new technologies and tell us that this will be the future. That they will employ those technologies in their future upper level cameras, too. And that they will not let us a choice to decide, whether we (how invested a considerable amount of money in their system) like it, too, or not. It’s not like a55/a580: Take the one you like. It’s make-or-break.
And then comes this semi-official guy from Spain saying that even the successor for their top-notch model, which aims at a totally different customer, will be based on their new technologies, too. And again: No choice: It’s my way or the highway!
New technologies mustn’t be bad. But what they have shown us so far, is entry-level quality and for many of us not acceptable for this class of camera. The a55 may sell like hot cakes — to the grand publique. But folks who are interested in the successor of the a900 know exactly what they are doing and what they want….
For the rest, see Daniel’s comment above.
Daniel
2 years ago |I feel your pain !!
)
pmac
2 years ago |For all those trumpeting the X100 as a model for a Sony hybrid EVF/OVF remember:
IT ONLY WORKS FOR A SINGLE FOCAL LENGTH.
Totally unsuitable for an interchangable lens camera.
RB
2 years ago |No. It works for a broad range of focal lengths as Leica shows us since 1954. Moreover the X100 has an optional EVF. The photog can decide when he wants to use the OVF and when the EVF.
But that’s not the point here. The point is that Fuji gives us a camera based on classic principles: Live view (not LiveView!) to the subject, hand-operated tactile control over the camera setting: The focus- and the aperture ring are the perfect control elements for a human for the lens settings. Unfortunately the camera designers and engineers don’t see it this way. The aperture setting via a body element is more straight forward for the design, more elegant and cheaper to produce. The result: The aperture ring is gone at all manufacturers. But Fuji’s advisors insited on the aperture ring, even if the designers and engineers didn’t like it…
pmac
2 years ago |rb – really? Have you tried using a rangefinder with a tele over 200mm, have you tried doing macro with a tele? I enjoy using my rangies but they are very, very limited beasts – as is the X100. Without doubt the best rangefinders have fixed lenses – the in finder bracket approach is awful.
Now I dont have a huge problem with a little bit of specialisation, make it cheap enough and I’ll happily buy a one trick pony (or two or three). But to think that the X100 is somehow an acceptable model for a generalist camera like the rumoured A77 is just wrong. What works on a small fixed lens walk about is not appropriate for a camera that will be used with everything from ultra wides to macros to super tele’s, primes and zoom’s, on the street, in a studio, etc.
pmac
2 years ago |rb – really? Have you tried using a rangefinder with a tele over 200mm, have you tried doing macro with a rangefinder? I have and they suck at it. I enjoy using my rangies but they are very, very limited beasts – as is the X100. Without doubt the best rangefinders have fixed lenses – the in finder bracket approach is awful.
Now I dont have a huge problem with a little bit of specialisation, make it cheap enough and I’ll happily buy a one trick pony (or two or three). But to think that the X100 is somehow an acceptable model for a generalist camera like the rumoured A77 is just wrong. What works on a small fixed lens walk about is not appropriate for a camera that will be used with everything from ultra wides to macros to super tele’s, primes and zoom’s, on the street, in a studio, etc.
RB
2 years ago |I didn’t say, that the HVF of the X100 is the one and only thing. The x100 is nice and for sure, I will preorder one asap. But for the rest I prefer my a900 with OVF and all the bunch of lenses. Nevertheless it would be possible to build am X200 with HVF and interchangable lenses, cf. Leica M3-M9.
What I wanted to point out are the tactile controls and direct view to the reality, which give photographers a real ‘tool’ in their hands, which stimulates sensation and imagination instead of a programmable logic controller (PLC) with lens.
EG
2 years ago |You are right when you say rangefinders are limited for that kind of photography you mention, but they are stars for other types… street for example. But the point here is if an HVF is possible or not in DSLRs… I think it’s too soon to say no even if you think is unsuitable. May be with optical and technical improvements it could be possible.
Carl
2 years ago |Et tū, A99!?
tipper
2 years ago |Sorry, Sony but translucent technic is just one step behind to a EVF NEX without mirror and a new focusing technic like fuji sensor phase detection:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1008/10080505fujifilmpd.asp
In my opion in a view years this technic is obsolete, I don’t see any reason to go this way.
Steve
2 years ago |If this rumor is true I think it unlikely we shall see new Zeiss or G full frame lenses from Sony. Sony’s future will be APS-C.
bob
2 years ago |Thank God I dumped this toy brand.
Still got an old @700 body and 10-20mm if anybody wants ‘em.
Francisco
2 years ago |I for one, am glad that Sony is going the innovation/ risk taking pathway, not the stalemate canikon duopoly way. I’m glad I bought my A350 a couple of years ago, and invested somewhat in some alpha lens. WAY TO GO SONY!!! Keep on going, for every detractor, you’ll have 10 adepts! The Sony Cybershot generation is growing up!
RB
2 years ago |The a350 is a valid camera. Me myself, I just came about 10 seconds too late (sic!), and ladies first, and I missed the a350. Okay, you’re grown up with Cybershot and I believe that the a350 feels great for you. But believe me, there is so much more beyond the a350…. I don’t know how much you have spend for lenses, but there are people, who spend twice as much for a single lens as you have spend in total, camera included. Yes, there are even lenses around for which folks are willing to pay ten times as much as your entire equipment. Believe me, once you have such a fine piece of glass, you want to look through it…. Next are medium format cameras — where the sensor alone in its housing (‘digi-back’) is be 20-40 k. Then there are large format cameras, whith scanning units… Believe me, all this has nothing to do with growing up Cybershot generation.
All systems have their places. The question is just, where Sony wants to position itself. In the growing up Cybershot generation only? Or do they want to build serious professional tools, like the a900 is?
Daniel
2 years ago |Don’t be harsh on Francisco…he’s just getting acustomed with his gear that he loves so much…he’ll grow out of his present needs at some future point and might possibly meet the mighty pentaprism, a dinossaur in some Sony museum
)
Carl
2 years ago |It’s probably quite positive news from the perspective of an A350 user, given the limitations of Sony’s current low end APS models.
Coming at it from the other perspective (as an A900 user, personally), we’ve pretty much been left without an upgrade path. Given that current EVF tech just isn’t good enough, we could be waiting many, many years for a full frame camera that offers a superior user experience to the 900 and 850. Which is annoying, as I’d quite like to have live view, at least.
Daniel
2 years ago |Yes, superior performance might be achieved as we speak, but not superior user experience.
They might give us faster, better autofocus, higher ISO performance, an EVF which leaves space for an on-camera flash.
I’ll still hate the EVF.
knurd
2 years ago |I can’t believe how many people are pessimistic about this whole thing. I’m sure Sony is not going to put an a55 EVF in an a99 or a950 or whatever. At the very least they would have something the resolution of the new iPhone retina display. You have to admit that’s a beautiful display.
Carl
2 years ago |If you try an A900, you’ll understand.
For the middle of the market, a functional, utilitarian viewfinder is just fine. You can compose photos through it, and if so inclined sell those photos for money. But for those who want something worthy of spending thousands of hours of their life looking through, a jerky, 8 bit/channel LCD/OLED screen with limited and imprecise gamma, colour and dynamic range is an experience nothing like a bright and clear pentaprism.
I don’t doubt for a second that at some point electronic viewfinders will match and even exceed that given the way the technology is improving, but by 2012? There’s not even a fraction of a percent chance of that happening. I wouldn’t even be comfortable in putting money on the A900′s successor’s successor being on par.
None of this is about pessimism or optimism. It’s just about being realistic about the rate of technological process. You can’t just flick a switch and have things suddenly become a hundred times better in an instant. Progress is something that takes time.
Daniel
2 years ago |My dear knurd…it’snot the resolution that limits today’s EVF.
RB
2 years ago |Sony, if you want to do me a favour: Improve the OVF of the a900 to the state of the SL2…
Francisco
2 years ago |I hardly ever use the A350′s viewfinder… why limit my composition to a tiny hole when the 3 inch live screen is there, and with lots of useful info?
Francisco
2 years ago |Hahah
Francisco
2 years ago |It was my first DSLR. Of course I know there are much better cameras out there. Once I tried the A900, and lifted it up toward my eye, and it was like entering another dimension, it was amazing. But it didn’t have live view either. My father recently purchased a Canon T2i (on my suggestion), and i love it’s video features and capabilities! That’s why I’m very happy about the impending A77: seems like the best of both worlds! You are right that I don’t own much lenses compared to many seasons pros, but I’m guessing most beggining/serious amateur photographers are the same. Sony is aiming at the userbase like myself, that bought one of their cams 2-3 years ago, are happy with it, and are ready to take the next step.
RB
2 years ago |“Once I tried the A900, … and it was like entering another dimension, it was amazing.”
sonyboy68
2 years ago |I am happy to read that SONY go to avant-garde technologies.
)
SLTs are the future even Nikon will have SLTs in a near future …
gabibbo
2 years ago |most important thing is that Sony does not give a time frame, which means that there will be more cameras with OVF before they will only do EVF cameras.
sanny
2 years ago |so the field test I have been doing of A7XX along with the 500mm for sony for the last 3 months go down the drain?
There will be an OVF version and a super damn good one at that just wait one more month. The sony spain guy was on proziac when he said that.
RB
2 years ago |Do you want to tell us that you had the (denied) OVF A7xx in your hands for the last three months and that Sony will release it in April?!
Sky_walker
2 years ago |*looks shocked*
let’s hope the guy says true…
Thomas
2 years ago |What the…?
Are you trollin’, or are you serious?
Yamaha
2 years ago |Is there any chance that Sony will use Hybrid VF? It will be pretty amazing if we can choose differet mode of VF in various lighting conditions. Also, Sony does not have to produce different models for EVF and OVF for the same level SLT, like A55 and A580. So I think using Hyrid VF really brings advantages to Sony and all of us.
Erational
2 years ago |The A77 is going to have a hybrid EVF like the Fuji. My understanding is that the new VF will be 70% electronic and 30% optically reinforced. It’s not purely electronic like the A55. I think it’s a bold step to say everything is going to be SLT (if it is true)and we should have some faith the new VF will be great. Let’s not pass judgement based on the A55.
Futile
2 years ago |guess I’ll be picking up an A900 this weekend.
pancanikonpus
2 years ago |Sony doing THIS because they know NO other option can provide good video recording capability & experience to end user if continue with old DSLR technology. and they KNOW by doing THIS it bring more improvements to end user about the camera capabilties and for the most concern as a manufacturer, it bring down the COST to produce cheaper camera with improves signficant performance camera -WIN-WIN Approach!
End user should understand, all companies only focus their effort on the major poll that most user needs NOT other way round. Pity for those OVF lover
haha
I feel happy about this news
1st, I would expect more A-mount lens in future for SLT -reconsidering existing zeiss/kit/G lenses are not design specified to SLT (correct if i am wrong) in still + video.
Daemonius
2 years ago |Have you ever seen through a900 OVF with for example f1.4 – 1.8 lens attached?
Even better healing is view through Leica S2 OVF.. but that comes for a price of second-hand Ferrari.
pancanikonpus
2 years ago |Forgot to mentioned, If they not provide the video capability in future camera, or lacking in video feature in video recording in future camera. the same way Sony can expected much more end user will bang on the their ass.
Who will buy a camera that w/o video capability or lacking in video capability (such as only720p only, slow like hell AF for instant)…
RB
2 years ago |Me! I don’t care for video in my camera. Frankly speaking, I don’t care for video at all — I even don’t have a TV set.
There are consumers (who want to have a jack of all trades) and photographers (who want to have an optimized camera for making photos). And that’s the thrilling question: Which way will Sony go? Will they serve consumers only? Or are they interested in photographers, too?
Zdrobot
2 years ago |Oh, c’mon!
This is a false dichotomy.
pancanikonpus
2 years ago |Sony seem to ingore you by release SLT and abandoned OVF select wisely on EVF to ensure all video capability go well in FF camera enhance by fast AF.May be when time near to release FF SLT, there are more features to come.
NI wonder if one day Pacanikonpus release all FF w/o EVF, don’t know how are those so call 5 percentile to stay… perhaps these pro user emphasis IQ may consider Medium Format
EG
2 years ago |I don’t care about video on photo cams neither. If I want video I’ve my semi-professional 3ccd cam with a much better ergonomics and functions and with an ENORMOUS viewfinder…. sure EVF, but in video you don’t have another thing. All the problem came when companies began to put video on photo cams… they mix two different worlds… they play Dr. Frankenstein’s game and now we photographers are divided. In war when you divide you win… Now companies do the same with their customers. There is no more collaboration… we are almost enemies between us (many people here have expressed that we are “dinosaurs” and similar or worst things). It’s kind of civil war. In the past companies usually listened their costumers, now we must listen companies, especially big ones, because they understood that in this way they have a better control of their costs and benefits. That’s the new play and finally we all are cannon fodder for them… I wonder if they even care about this pool saying for almost 60% that people will miss the OVF.
Manolo
2 years ago |I’m SO glad I bought my Nikon D90!! Who’s interested on buying my sony equipement??? Opteka 85mm 1.4; Sigma 50mm 1.4; Sigma 30mm 1.4; 75-300 4.5-5.6 Anyone??
RB
2 years ago |Thanks, but nothing interesting for me.
Enjoy your D90!
Weber Tang
2 years ago |I am interesting in Sigma 30mm 1.4
How can I contact you.
Spriggers
2 years ago |I’d be a bit wary of latency of evfs, but come on. An evf is closer to the real digital image than an ovf. Dynamic range, color clipping, dof preview without dimming the image…. Evf aren’t close to perfect, but they capture a lot more of the essence of the digital file. Actual photographs never quite look exactly as the write sees the scene.
Zdrobot
2 years ago |Agreed. “The evils of EVFs” are blown out of proportions.
Jack_Young
2 years ago |Oh, Sony, I will say dumping OVF is a very, very big mistake.
I have been heavily invested on the ALPHA, I now own the A900 and A55. I am a semi-pro, occasionally shot portraits for beauty schools.
I use 4 alpha flash with 2 flash of other bands to setup a portable studio for my clients.
In M mode, the A55 will never get the job done.
So, will SLT be the answer to the people using strobes? I seriously doubted.
azamnecrone
2 years ago |if SONY want to use the transcluent technology for all their upcoming model,this my prediction and hope for the new improvement of transcluent will be..(lets se in a77)
- the a77 will use hybrid EVF (hope so!)
- the a77 will have 2 mirror mode
mode 1 :: mirror will flip with 100% light to sensor,only single shot.
mode 2 :: mirror stay,and can burst 15fps??+ af with video
i just hate the color fringe effect from the a55.although it can be edited,the image still not perfect!!
Edgars
2 years ago |It is real fun to reed so much emotional comments about single aspect of photography. I don’t want to say it isn’t important, but people actually don’t even imagine how good new EVF will be on A77 and even less they know about EVF on A99.
It’s interesting that Sony leaving users (if they already are?) ignore trends of other companies which in near future will do the same as Sony. I mean Nikon patents etc.
RB
2 years ago |I don’t think that this discussion would be emotional if Sony would have said that all entry levels cameras will be EVF, only, and high-end cameras will come in both flavors. Then folks would be relaxed and curious what Sony will show us as a77/a99.
But like it is now: Sony shows us a considerable change in an a33/a55 which a900 owners don’t like and then leaves it to the customers to extrapolate it to how it will look in an a99 which they will have to buy — or to take the highway.
Sony’s slogan “Believe that anything you can imagine, you can make real.” doesn’t really help….
SVOR
2 years ago |Short term this might be an issue but when you consider how quickly technology is moving I think the only conclusion is that reflex architectures only have a short time to live. My understanding is that the mirror is now mainly there because the phase detection focus system needs it but I wonder if it is just a couple of years before contrast detection becomes fast enough for all but the must demanding requirements. Look at the claimed focus performance of some of the latest non-mirror cameras. Video is already pushing to higher frame rates and so the sensors are delivering much faster focus speeds too. The recently announced Sony HX9V claims 0.1s focus time and also offers HD video at 50 or 60 frames per second progressive. I am of the view that E-Mount may be the better investment in the end. We can stop arguing about the double image then.
nuxar
2 years ago |that’s another the prove that Sony thinks users are fools. And they are right.
nygus
2 years ago |I want “fuji X100-like” viewfinder – optical, but with histogram and other info
Charles Ramsey
2 years ago |Ha I can see right through this anouncement.
Zyg
2 years ago |OVF/EVF/OVF/EVF… I spent 25 years using optical view finders on film cameras before moving on to a digital camera with an EVF and live view on the rear LCD (it had video too but I never used it). I didn’t particulary like or hate the EVF but I LOVED the live view on the rear LCD. It gave me a lot of flexibility in my shooting style. After about 5-7 years of using live view, I went back to using an OVF-only A100. All of a sudden I felt crippled and restricted. I could no longer use my camera as an extension of my body. It always had to be plastered against my face. I now have an A900 and have gotten re-used to the OVF, but don’t really care if is replaced with an EVF. The new EVFs look so much better than the one I was using and in low light OVFs can be difficult to cope with (I often shoot quick action in low light and have to compose quickly). I just hope Sony comes out with an A900 with live view on the rear LCD. I would love to have that freedom back.
My only real concern with the translucent models is that slanted piece of glass in the light path. If they can keep that from degrading the image on the sensor then I’ll be happy.
nuxar
2 years ago |ditto. You’ve got a point.
EG
2 years ago |“It always had to be plastered against my face”
That’s exactly what I love in VF in general. The arms extended to watch an LCD are too indiscreet for my style of shooting. Furthermore, the cam plastered against my face gives me much more stability and concentration. Of course, in some situations an LCD panel with live view is great, but here we are talking about EVF vs. OVF.
Francisco
2 years ago |To each their own I believe. I also enjoy the liberty that live view and a retractable LCD give me on my A350. If you want stability, get stronger hands! (AKA do weightlifting).
SonyA77
2 years ago |Live-view is great for candid street photography. NOT having the OVF to your eye is definitely an advantage there.
NWolf
2 years ago |Plagarized from another site’s comments…
Pellicle (semi-silvered) mirrors go WAY back.
) at the Olympic Games at Sapporo in 1972. It used a pellicle mirror to get (what was at the time) an amazing 9 fps. Nikon also had pellicle mirrors in their F HS and F2H SLRs.
The Canon Pellix used a semi-silvered mirror in 1965 and the Canon FTQL had one in 1966.
Canon launched a special high-speed version of their original F1 camera (called the F1 High Speed – very original name
Then in 1982 Canon produced a high-speed version of their updated F1n camera that could get 14 fps. The thing was huge, was crazy expensive, and sounded like an Uzi. Some photographers complained to Canon because the 35mm film went through the camera so fast that you’d get the occasional spark of static electricity which would partly fog the emulsion!
As mentioned, pellicle mirror cameras fell out of favor since you lost at least half a stop in exposure. Nice to see old technology coming back to help-out new tech!
pancanikonpus
2 years ago |very boring weekend again
Yamaha
2 years ago |Will Sony launch A77 before June?….
SonyA77
2 years ago |*If* the rumour of April announcement is true (I doubt it) then Sony have generally had the new models for sale a month later, so May/June. I think we’ll be waiting until September.
Walt
2 years ago |The Canon and Nikon pellicle SLRs were pentaprism OVF SLRs. Their only difference with standard SLRs was that the pellicule mirror did not move out of the way to take a photo. Their viewfinders used the same light path to provide a real optical view of the light that went through the lens. The very kind of camera that Sony says they will no longer make. Too bad people don’t bestir themselves to find out the difference with the pure EVF SLT, which has no pentaprism, no OVF, and is therefore not even a DSLR. It more closely resembles a EVF consumer cam than a DSLR.
Darren Grant
2 years ago |I thought the whole point of an SLR was being able to see through the lens, especially in manual focus mode being able to see the exact focus not just some low resolution facsimile of the image.
The very reason I switched to a SLR is that manual focus on my compact was impossible using the LCD screen.
Without an OVF I wouldn’t bother with a DSLR as it is nothing more than a NEX without the benefit of the small form factor.
It is a silly move in my opinion and so I am likely to just keep my A500 for as long as possible, and see who sticks with OVF in the future, I think I will just switch to another brand as I’m not heavily invested in Sony, only got a couple of cheap lenses so no difficulty in switching other than learning a new interface.
SonyA77
2 years ago |Checking focus is MUCH better digitally than using the OVF. Live-view is used for macro for example, zoom in to check focus.
What doesn’t get mentioned much is that with an EVF you will get DoF, on an OVF all you get is a crappy dark viewfinder when checking DoF, it’s actually very difficult to see the DoF.
Les
2 years ago |I’m old enough to remember when most people – including me – thought that the early digital cameras were a silly gimmick, and that film would long outlast them.
How wrong we were!
And now again, “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it” as the famous quote puts it.
My advice is to not prejudge, but to wait and see if this really could be the future of photography.
Walt
2 years ago |If everyone sets around waiting without comment then they will get whatever is cheapest to build (like the SLT/EVF) instead of what is best for photography. Especially so with Sony. If you care about photography you comment as it’s happening, not after it’s too late.
Art
2 years ago |I’ll switch to Nikon before I even consider EVF. I have waited three years now for a worthy FF from Sony. If they drop OVF from its line-up of Pro-level cameras, I will be buying a Nikon D3s.
What I have seen so far was pure garbage from the EVF dump.
Clyde
2 years ago |It’s a bigger question than just yes or no.
Perfect world, there’s really no reason not to have a translucent mirror which can flip up. The EVF could be projected right on top of the OVF focusing screen.
Maxxum 9XI had floating LCD AF points on the OVF way back in the early 90′s. If you remember, only the active AF point was visible. Not like the cameras today where you see them all with the active one red. Back then, the 9XI viewfinder was clean and clear of any AF point indicators except for the one selected. Manual Focus displayed a perfectly clear OVF.
Revive that old tech and bring it into the color LCD platform. It IS a fresnel screen, so treat it like a mini video projector screen.
Regardless, I’ve been shooting Maxxum since the 80′s. I’ve got plenty of OVF cameras when I need them. Bring on the EVF full force. I can’t wait.
dosequis
2 years ago |Of course i will miss OVF. But if anyone can make a good EVF/hybrid VF, i believe Sony can. If EVF means smaller FF cameras, then that’s also good. I don’t care about “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it”. That generation caused progress to stall and people paying absurd prices for incrimental improvements.
Get android on these cameras while you’re at it Sony! Imagine photo management as easy as connecting camera to TV or display. Make it happen Sony!
somebody
2 years ago |I just wanted to buy several Zeiss lenses, but this makes think about that again. EVF is absolutely no option for me, this has nothing to do with photography. It is okay to put it in their tiny toy cameras, but not in their top line… If this comes true I will sell all my Sony stuff…
G
2 years ago |Some people clearly have very strong opinions on this. Personally I’m not that fussed either way.
I do, however, like that Sony are pushing head with new ideas and innovations, even if their first attempts aren’t perfect.
Denis
2 years ago |I made a mistake to trust in Sony. I move to a canon. I do not trust.
Johann Kwan
2 years ago |If this is for real, then I will have to switch in the next few years. That’s absolutely awful… I’m sorry, but I need my OVF.
Clyde
2 years ago |It’s a bigger question than just yes or no.
Perfect world, there’s really no reason not to have a translucent mirror which can flip up. The EVF could be projected right on top of the OVF focusing screen.
Maxxum 9XI had floating LCD AF points on the OVF way back in the early 90′s. If you remember, only the active AF point was visible. Not like the cameras today where you see them all with the active one red. Back then, the 9XI viewfinder was clean and clear of any AF point indicators except for the one selected. Manual Focus displayed a perfectly clear OVF.
Revive that old tech and bring it into the color LCD platform. It IS a fresnel screen, so treat it like a mini video projector screen.
Regardless, I’ve been shooting Maxxum since the 80′s. I’ve got plenty of OVF cameras when I need them. Bring on the EVF full force. I can’t wait.
Clyde
2 years ago |Just PLEASE get RID of those stupid antiquated camera strap lugs and give us a proper a200/Canon style camera lug that doesn’t protrude out and bloody my fingers.
Put the lugs on the BOTTOM so not to interfere with controls.
This leaves the lens pointing down and the LCD pointing up when the camera is around the neck. Otherwise, I’m getting tired of clanking my lenses on obstacles because they point outward with top mounted camera lugs.
Gimme back my EYESTART! and put an ADDITIONAL shutter release on the FRONT of the camera TOPCON SuperD style like this:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/beseler/beseler_topcon_super_d/besele11.gif for more comfortable vertical shooting without a big fat expensive vertical grip accessory.
Make these design improvements and world peace will finally be upon us all.
Clyde
2 years ago |Give a new round reflector bare bulb HS TTL (RADIO CONTROLED) crazy flash while you’re at it Sony.
Would be nice to have an additional hot shoe on the left side of camera for vertical shooters. You know us fashion/portrait guys are mostly vertical shooters. You did know that didn’t you Sony? Portrait rhymes with Vertical. So we want a stable elegant solution for keeping the flash on top of the lens without fussing with chords and brackets.
Portrait rhymes with Vertical. Try and remember that Sony.