(SR5) There will be not a new native E-mount Full Frame lens system! The cameras are E-A mount hybrid (and more…)
Reading comments on SAR and on other forums many said the NEX FF rumor has to be wrong because it makes no sense (physically and from a strategy point of view) to develop a new range of native E-mount Full Frame lenses. The answer is easy, Sony will NOT do that!
The idea behind the E-mount FullFrame cameras is to be compatible with current E-mount lenses (in crop mode) with A-mount lenses (with special adapter) and very important, having an E-mount with Full Frame sensor (instead of a mirrorless A-mount) will allow you to use almost any kind of lens on the camera. Think Leica M-mount lenses (here a list of them on eBay), Canon FD lenses (here a list of them on eBay) and so on…Sony’s goal is to be “hybrid” or as “universal” as possible. If that will really work out well we will see in time only…
That said I know that “some official Sony news” should arrive soon, but there is no sort of NEX-9 with FF coming now….wait until 2013. There are also multiple FF mirrorless prototypes I heard of….some with E and some with A mount. But One native E-mount FullFrame camera is coming for sure!
It’s important you add this new lens info in ongoing discussions on forums and blogs. Otherwise it sounds like SAR is crazy on that NEX FF rumor 
——
Something else about the definition of rumors:
1) Rumors are per definition non facts based on non official info. No company sends me info I am posting here. On SAR we are all like Alice in Wonderland
2) That said, Wonderland has different kind of rumors. There are rumors I am sure they are almost pure fantasy and rumors where fantasy can miraculously turn out to be truth. And below you can find the ranking of Wonderland rumors:
Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
Enjoy the Sunday and spread the holy words of the fantasy rumor
…and see you on FB!
Redbird
10 months ago |1st!
DtEW
10 months ago |So can we safely assume that this will be the D800 sensor?
Since APS-C is ~43% of the surface area of FF, 43% of the 36.3mp D800 sensor will yield 15.55mp in crop mode. I can’t imagine Sony going lower in megapixelage. I mean, the rumored 24mp FF a99 will yield 10.28mp in crop mode. I think marketing would poo-poo the latter configuration.
But yes, in either configuration… sign me up. I went into the NEX system because I wanted to adapt vintage Zeiss lenses. I went NEX instead of m43 simply because the bigger sensor brought the lenses closer to what they were doing on my film cameras. Of course, I also found a wonderful system in the native E-mount lenses, and therefore don’t use the adapted Zeiss’ that much anymore. I had been considering the rumored FF A99 alpha body an adjunct (I know this sounds odd) to my NEX system, and was considering if the legacy lenses could be adapted with a mount replacement.
With a FF NEX featuring an E-mount, it would be the perfect extension of my current system. In fact, my current C/Y-to-E adapter would mate my C/Y Zeiss’ to return them to their glorious FF intentions, a FF LA-EA2-equivalent for me to go for that SAL-70200G, and compatibility with my E-mount lenses when I need to carry two bodies.
Since it’s designed to use the non-stabilized Alpha system lenses, it hopefully should have IBIS as the Alphas. But it wouldn’t be a deal-breaker even if it didn’t.
EnPassant
10 months ago |You and others like you are a great reason for Sony to build a fullframe NEX!
Just make a camera people can adopt all kind of lenses to and sooner or later many getting tired of focusing manually will buy Sony’s AF-lenses for convenience.
Ray
10 months ago |You better hope its stabilized. I just spent a few weeks shooting a D800, with vr. Its a tripod camera. An NEX FF will be even less stable a platform to shoot with.
Yong
10 months ago |A nex body that can fit all A mount natively is good…!
Sky_walker
10 months ago |Every NEX body can fit all A-mount units natively. Ever heard of LA-EA2? It gives you as native support as it gets – by far better then anything Canon currently offers for EOS-M (and people out there keep repeating over and over again how EOS-M got enormous amount of supported lenses [through adapter that is, only somehow they skip the fact that AF is crippled to hell] )
documensony
10 months ago |LA-EA2 is for full frame? (rhetorical question)
Sky_walker
10 months ago |Possibly not, but when FF camera will be released – most likely FF adapter will as well
documensony
10 months ago |In some form, yes – that’s the news! You can’t have FF via an adapter now.
Klipsen
10 months ago |If the adapter is a wideangle converter that “squeezes” the FF image circle onto the APS-C image circle, then full frame lenses can be used on any NEX with full use of their native coverage.
Yong
10 months ago |I meant without adaptor.
Twaddler Belafonte
10 months ago |Ditch the e-mount, no body wants an adapter.
documensony
10 months ago |But the E-mount and the shorter sensor distance means acces to using M-mount and many other lenses that can’t be used with Alpha mount.
The possibility of being able to freely choose between A- and E-mount means: Best of both worlds.
The Alpha and Nex systems being integrated into one, large system.
Sky_walker
10 months ago |Aren’t they already integrated in one large system that’s called “Alpha” where we have Alpha SLR, Alpha SLT and Alpha NEX? NEX-7 uses iISO flashes, every NEX can use A-mount lenses with full compatibility, they use same software, same wireless triggering methods, same sensors, same protocols, etc. etc.
Besides the interfaces&ergonomics as well as lack of option to connect E-mount lenses (or this odd accessory port things) to SLTs they aren’t that much different.
Spoon
10 months ago |In principle they are indeed, but not with FF capabilities.
Sky_walker
10 months ago |As of today – we don’t have any FF NEX so it doesn’t matter (in terms of integrated system), does it?
Spoon
10 months ago |It might matter to A mount and (future?) E mount shooters wanting a mirrorless that when needed takes full use of the image circle with FF A mount lenses. Convergence between existing systems (glass) and possibly adds compatibility with future E mount FF glass, if it ever comes….
documensony
10 months ago |“Aren’t they already integrated in one large system that’s called “Alpha” where we have Alpha SLR, Alpha SLT and Alpha NEX?”
Yes, but you can’t have FF with Nex yet.
And with phase detection AF-measurement directly from the sensor, you can skip the mirrorbox entirely.
Sky_walker
10 months ago |I can’t cause there’s no full frame NEX. Up till A900 there wasn’t Full Frame Alpha either. I don’t see how it changes anything.
And on-sensor PDAF only supports CDAF. There’s no on-sensor PDAF that’s even half as good as mirror-box-based PDAF so: no, you can’t skip mirror box if you want good AF with shallow depth of field.
documensony
10 months ago |Something is happening here,Skywalker … wake up and smell the coffee
Sky_walker
10 months ago |come on… it’s Sunday!
documensony
10 months ago |zane
10 months ago |hi andrea, will the hybrid have IBIS???
thanks
btw…respect to redbird on 1st…haha!
admin
10 months ago |Good question. Will ask.
pancanikonpus
10 months ago |not really a new question >.<
zane
10 months ago |Sorry, i didn’t realise this was the “new question” forum… forgiveness please.
Seriously though, you broke your silence for that comment…get a life.
In any event it has not been answered and admin acknowledges that point.
Pedro Souza
10 months ago |boy that escalated quickly
Andrew
10 months ago |I’m not really sold on this idea. If it’s a compact NEX-style design it won’t be worth it because if I’m going to use FF lenses I want a corresponding FF body with lots of manual controls and proper ergonomics. If I just want compact then I might as well just use a regular APS-C NEX since there will be no FF NEX lenses.
admin
10 months ago |FF lenses for E-mount may come much later (my speculation…not a rumor from sources). But definitely not now and not next year.
Dulaney Ward
10 months ago |I don’t believe you here, Andrea. Sony will surely introduce at least two or three native FF NEX lenses from the beginning. After all, they could be used for aps-c NEX cameras, as with A-mount.
john
10 months ago |Wouldn’t it be funny if the soon to be announced NEX lenses were already FF capable
documensony
10 months ago |Almost too much to ask. People are craving for pancakes and compact lens designs for APS-C, however … so probably not
Seeky
10 months ago |Native e-mount ff lenses are a must to make this body succesfull. Adapting mf and a-mount lenses will only work for some people.
Adapting large slr lenses makes no sense to me when the short flange distance allows much smaller lens designs.
documensony
10 months ago |Alpha lenses will become the native FF lenses along with legacy FF rangefinder lenses and many more.
In the long run, I would expect the Alpha line to become *mainly* FF and E-mount line to stay APS-C.
Makes a lot of sense. In terms of manufacturing efficiency too…
Seeky
10 months ago |Makes no sense, EXCEPT for manufacturing efficiency. Slr lenses are made for slrs, and are by definition not optimal performers on other bodies like NEX. The huge advantage of the short flange distance is to be able to create smaller, better performing lenses. If you don’t take that into account, then there is for the majority of people no noticable advantage of a ff NEX over a e.g. A99, except for a possibly slightly smaller body.
documensony
10 months ago |Seeky wrote: “Slr lenses are made for slrs, and are by definition not optimal performers on other bodies like NEX”
Excuse me, Seeky, but you seem to have yet not grasped the nature of this new HYBRID or BRIDGE camera.
It will be natively born for interchangeable mounts.
It can use Alpha lenses when you need them (and full SLT advantages with mirror box in place).
It can use rangefinder (and other) lenses via an E-mount (with mirror box removed) when you need them.
No other camera does this yet in FF.
Seeky
10 months ago |I understand the nature of this camera almost perfectly, except that Sony did not yet revealed how it exactly works. My point (and many others) is that all that hybridness is nice, but A) not many people will buy an FF camera and use it with APS-C lenses (all e-mount lenses so far), and B) it makes no sense to only use the FF capability by using A-mount lenses or MF glass. Of course, that is a nice option or use, but it is not logical! What actually makes sense is that Sony develops a new breed of native FF lenses specially designed for its native e-mount, which contain all advantages of most mirrorless FF systems like Leica and Contax. Its like having DT and FF lenses for a-mount, where FF lenses are designed to work on both APS-C and FF cameras, but DT lenses only work properly on APS-C cameras. If Sony not accounts for that (and you also don’t see the need) it will only be marginally popular among consumers. Lastly, I like this hybrid very much, but just hope that it will be implemented very well.
documensony
10 months ago |Seeky wrote: “What actually makes sense is that Sony develops a new breed of native FF lenses specially designed for its native e-mount”
That would be nice indeed. There may even be popular demand for such lenses. If so, they will arrive. In due course, I am sure
J-Man
10 months ago |” B) it makes no sense to only use the FF capability by using A-mount lenses or MF glass.”
Funny, I fully intend to use it with FF MF glass.
If it doesn’t make sense to you, don’t buy it, simple as that.
zane
10 months ago |Andrew, there is no doubt there will be an all pro FF model with all the bells and whistles..so don’t worry. What is proposed is just another prosumer model with a focus on size…nothing wrong with choice right?
Joe
10 months ago |So it’s a FF camera but in order to use FF lenses you need to use an adaptor? What’s the point?
documensony
10 months ago |The FF sensor in a rather small package is the point. Mount any M-mount lens, and it will be about half the weight and size compared to i.e. Canon 5 mkIII. Mount most Alpha lenses, and the combination will still be handy.
Joe
10 months ago |It’s no longer a small package when you have to use an adaptor.
spaceman
10 months ago |Have you seen the NEX-M adapter before?? Even with this tiny adapter I’m sure it will be the smallest FF mirrorless system, BY FAR. It will become a true alternative to Leica, and a technical superior one at that.
Check this site out for size comparison: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/12/27/the-leica-m8-or-the-sony-nex-5-and-adapter-a-quick-test-with-the-leica-50-summarit-lens/
Carl
10 months ago |The M9 really isn’t that small or light, not to mention needlessly expensive. A smaller, lighter cheaper alternative, with a better sensor probably, would certainly not go amiss.
Ray
10 months ago |@spaceman If ever there was a comparison to convince an m-glass owner to stay with Leica, that link is it. The Leica destroyed the NEX.
Greg
10 months ago |It’s no longer a small package when you have to use a LENS…which is always. So quit quibbling.
Don Cox
10 months ago |The point for me is to be able to use the whole image of my Nikon lenses, and in particular to get better results when digitising 35mm Kodachrome slides.
I am using an Olympus lens on a Nikon bellows for digitising, and the results are good enough for Ektachrome and nearly good enough for Kodachrome.
A 36 Megapixel FF sensor that can be used with the current Nikon adaptors would be ideal. 24 Megapixel might be enough.
No, I do not want a Nikon DSLR the size of a whale and costing as much as a car. The NEX series is nearly perfect.
Dave Lively
10 months ago |With no native FF lenses this is going to be a niche product and will probably be priced accordingly. I would not expect it to be much, if any, less expensive than a D800.
Sony likes to push the limits when it comes to megapixels. I would be really surprised if it has anything less than 36 MP and they might go higher.
zane
10 months ago |haha, it sure does
just no need 4 pointless meanness!!
CTPhotographX.com
10 months ago |Sony is becoming the “native adapter” company.
A full frame cam that requires adapter to be full frame… oh joy.
Dear Sony,
with all the ff mirrorless protoypes you supposedly have on the block, please consider one that has moveable sensor to accommodate various lens registrations. The Contax AX already proved this is possible decades ago. But you could improve upon that by making a moveable sensor which provided macro, tilt, shift, pan with any lens.
Mats
10 months ago |I don’t think it is correct to say use adater to be FF.
i instead think it will be a generic camera on which you always must mount an adapter. The cameras native mount will have no native lenses and it will not necessary be a bayonet and not round.
Sony will make adapters får E-mount and A-mount (and possible sell the cameras in kit with one of them or both), but publish the specification for others to manufacture all kind of adapters.
Thanks to an even shorter distance for the flange of the detachable mount and bigger outer measures (which not need to be circular) there can be room for lots of electronics and also possible to make adapters for rangefinder or other mirrorless system’s lenses so m4/3, Nikon1, EOS-M (in crop) and Leica and so on.
Pherhaps this type of mount will come in all types of camera, not just small NEX-like cameras, but also larger bodies. They might even make it large enough to not only cover FF, but also mediumformt so that we later on could se an SLT with square 40×40 mm sensor with automatic cropping and seemless adjustment of proportions and vertical shots without having to turn the camera and we can use Hasselblad or PO or Pentax lenses.
No more system locking effect. Even guys with lots of Canon lenses cam buy a Sony camera without loosing compatibility.
/Mats
documensony
10 months ago |That would be a neat solution! A free choice between A- and E-mount lenses with FF and full AF.
The different mounts/adapters for this camera may even be of modular design a la Ricoh GXR (although the idea of placing the sensor in the adapter module is hardly viable).
Despite having an ‘open mount’ system, Sony would probably protect the mount (and its own lens sales), so that 3rd party lenses can not be used with AF.
Sahaja
10 months ago |Why? Sony is an electronics company – they want to sell electronics.
If they really made a “universal” system that could be adapted to take Canon and Nikon lenses, as well as A-mount they could probably sell a lot of bodies to users of those systems. (Depending on the specs of course)
Maybe they could even make bodies with different, specialized sensors.
documensony
10 months ago |The fat earnings are in the lenses…
Sky_walker
10 months ago |Yep, I was thinking about that too, and from commercial point of view – this might be the best option. Simply because it’ll develop something unique, unseen in digital photography, as well as make neither of bayonets look inferior when used with such camera.
So no more whining that there are no “native” E-mount FF lenses – they are, only you need to use proper bayonet, as FF NEX doesn’t have any bayonet what so ever by default.
documensony
10 months ago |Brillant!
And over time, Sony would need only to develop lenses for TWO lens ranges – Alpha for FF and E-mount for APS-C. Rational and effective.
Dulaney Ward
10 months ago |And, btw, what makes this especially brilliant is the creation of the SLT tech, which makes it possible to mount an adapter with very fact built-in SLT-based PDAF. Try to do that with a flippin’ mirror!
As I remember now, Andrew billed the LEA-2 as revolutionary when it was introduced. I am beginning to see just how revolutionary.
“By Thom” has been pushing modularity and interconnectivity (think gps, internet connectivity, apps) for years. I suspect that we are about to get both, beyond our wildest dreams!
Quobetah
10 months ago |Theres already a company that is doing exactly that, ever heard of RED? Obsolescence obsolete. Their caneras are built on modularity. Their “brain” contains only a sensir an processor. Theres an option to change mount fron EF to PL, which ever uou want. Each achieves full electronic functionality when screwed on. They can even implement video autofocus with canon lenses when canon itselt cannot!:D
documensony
10 months ago |“Theres already a company that is doing exactly that, ever heard of RED?”
And knowing the price level of RED cameras, I would expect the new Alpha/Nex hybrid camera to be sold for about one tenth of RED pricing.
It will come substantially smaller and lighter with a much better UI too…
Sky_walker
10 months ago |This would be brilliant.
Only problem is that: It just sounds too good to be real.
Just like hybrid viewfinders that were rumored before SLTs came out… or flipping mirror SLT… or completely modular camera system… all of them possible, none came out to be truth
redfern
10 months ago |I had a feeling this was what Sony was planning! Great news!
why mirror?
10 months ago |I think people are missing a point here….
The original reason why there is a mirror inside a camera body is so light can be bounce to the viewfinder, and later to the phase detection sensor as well.
If technology advance enough that we dont need to bounce the light for VF and autofocus, why add the engineering/manufacturing cost to the product? on top of that, adding another mechanical part for 1 more possible failure in the system?
Remember, there is no hard rule saying a mirrorless camera has to be small. Its a marketing scheme to sell the system. Any camera company can build a mirrorless camera that has a housing bigger than a medium format, in fact google scientific camera and see how many camera bodies out there that is physically bigger than a hasselbald that doesnt have a mirror in it, all those scientific cameras miss is a their own mounting system for AF.
sorry OVF lovers, technology evolution isnt going to stop just because some people cant move on
Mats
10 months ago |You are absolutely right that a good EVF has made the OVF obsolete and because of that there is no need for a mirror.
For the AF-system however, the mirror is still necessary. On sensor PDAF-solutions such as seen in Nikon-1 and Canon 650D/EOS-M and propably in upcoming NEX 5-R and 6, are still far from the efficiency and speed from real off-board PDAF-sensors. This might cange in the future, but it is simply not here yet and until then the SLT-mirror is necessary. If the same speed, accuracy and efficiency AF can be accomplished with another technology tht do not require the mirror, of course it will go and that does not necessary mean that all cameras must be small, just like you say.
There are still ergonomic advantages of a full size system camera, especially if you mount large aperture lenses, especially telephoto.
However, the simpler DSRL/SLT-models with kit-lenses will propably be almost extincted because of the smaller mirrorless cameras.
We are far from an AF-solution without external PDAF-sensors that can compete in speed and accuracy. Therefore the other manufacturers will continue DSLR and Sony’s advantage with the SLT-system will become more and more clear as they begin taking advantage of the possibilities with the solution, that they haven’t fully done yet.
/Mats
Thom Hogan
10 months ago |Technically, neither of your assertions are true.
A. An EVF is not a perfect substitute for optical viewfinders. The primary problem factors are lag, eye adaptation, and not seeing depth normally. That last is potentially a plus, too, but not currently implemented that way.
B. PD autofocus on the imaging sensor is now available from three companies, with a fourth to join it soon.
We’re moving from mechanical systems to electronic. Things change because of that. Some for the better, some for the worse. I’d personally feel more comfortable if I felt the camera companies were making these changes for photographically inspired reasons and implementing them with that foremost in mind. But the real motivation for them is simply cost reduction and appearing to be market innovators. The real question is whether any of this type of innovation is truly giving us better photographic results.
documensony
10 months ago |Thom wrote: “An EVF is not a perfect substitute for optical viewfinders.”
EVF’s have upsides too, like i) they are brighter to view in darker environments, ii) they take up less space and weight, iii) they open up for a diversity of designing flexibilities, iv) the amount of information in the viewfinder can be much larger to the benefit of not having to remove your eye from your subject and v) manual focusing is so faster with peak function.
Upsides and downsides aside, Sony chose to go the EVF route, and quite some advantages from that decision are beginning to emerge … one of them being this hybrid camera that aparently will work with interchangeable mounts/registration distances.
Thom wrote: “The real question is whether any of this type of innovation is truly giving us better photographic results.”
What’s wrong with having your topnotch FF SLT camera for Alpha lenses and being able to use your FF rangefinder lenses to the full on this camera as well?
wonderbread
10 months ago |Can someone explain this a bit better? What is this story reporting will be the native lens system for the NEX FF? If it’s E-mount how does that make sense if it’s crop only?
EddyH
10 months ago |Untill now E-mount lenses have been designed for APS-C. At this moment there are no full frame E-mount lenses, so the current E-mount lenses can only be used for a cropped image (APS-C). But the E-mount can fit a full frame sensor, in the future there might be full frame E-mount lenses.
JohnSingkit
10 months ago |Adapted FF lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, Canon, Sony, etc) will be their true FLs – no crop factor. At the same time, the E-mount lenses will also be their true FLs, hence the Zeiss 24mm/f1.8 will be 24, not the equivalent 35mm. You do not need to use the 16mm lens in order to get the 24mm FOV.
For me, this is great news. For all those who have kept their SLR legacy lenses, it is great news. Hope Sony succeeds. Using FF sensor could make the camera a little bigger but probably not much more. Small setp from using the APS-C made the NEX line small and light while having the potential for great IQ. The FF version becomes the true enthusiast body in the NEX line, though the rumored NEX 6 and the current NEX 7 (probably soon to be upgraded) are no slouches. It removes the last line of compromise for legacy lens utilization and new lens selection by the enthusiast.
EddyH
10 months ago |The 24mm f1.8 CZ is an APS-C lens, not a full frame. Somewhere in the documentation that comes with the lens this is stated. I would have liked it otherwise, but it isn’t…
But Cosina, Carl Zeiss have their hands on the E-mount specs since early 2011, so we might start seeing lenses from them in the next 6 months? And maybe they go full frame for the start?
ukorbust
10 months ago |Maybe it’s just inconsistency on their part, but on Sony’s webstore, some of the NEX lenses’ magnification multiplier is noted with “(APS-C)”. Where the CZ 24 1.8 is not.
ukorbust
10 months ago |And Sony could as easily market the FF NEX as a premium product and only develop CZ lenses that are FF capable for NEX. Much like how Leica bodies and lenses are premium products.
Ideally you can still use current APS-C NEX lenses on it as well, but in a crop mode, much like some of the APS-C/DT Sony lenses on the A900.
But either way, if Sony is in this for the long term, then the lack of selection of NEX FF lenses at release will not be that big of an issue (it can already AF with some amazing Minolta and CZ A-mount lenses).
admin
10 months ago |Wow…you got me! I am very unintelligent and non honest and “click my links” oriented. Really, only because you find this news not interesting it is not an excuse to offend people. I think it’s great news! For the first time I see the chance to buy a FF compact camera (mirrorless) that is not a $7000 Leica. Have you seen Nikon or Canon doing that?
And again…it is not an Alpha body it is an E-mount body. Adding Nikon lenses on NEX doens’t give you any electronic contact (no af and no aperture control). Adding A mount lenses on E-mount camera is a complete different story…all Alpha lenses will work perfectly well on it! Please try to argument with a rational approach. If we start shouting without to think we will always offend each other. Thanks Paul
bas076
10 months ago |This is exactly not interesting – to place A-mount FF lenses on small mirrorless body. How many small FF A-mount lenses with motor do you know? 85/2.8? What else? Corped lenses on FF body not interesting too.
Nawaf
10 months ago |50mm 1.4
bas076
10 months ago |50/1.4 SAM? SSM? I can’t remember such a lens.
Sky_walker
10 months ago |Did he mention anything about SAM or SSM? He didn’t.
Now: Obviously you either can’t read or don’t want to read.
1) This rumor isn’t about using adapters on NEX but rather having full frame sensor in NEX – that’s a huge breakthrough if you have any clue on what’s going on in the market currently. Obviously you don’t, cause otherwise you wouldn’t write such a BS. Now: either you choose to use it as APS-C E-mount or you use full frame mounts, like A-mount or M-mount on a new NEX. Clear enough?
2) No, it’s not equivalent to using F-mount lenses on NEX. Currently no NEX supports FF sensor. Currently no adapter gives you even half of F-mount functionalities. Currently there’s no real set of gear made to support F-mount beyond some crippled 3rd party adapters.
Klipsen
10 months ago |The words “with motor” can hardly be interpreted as anything other than “with either SSM or SAM”.
john
10 months ago |Pretty sure you will find something small and FF here:
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/results.asp?IDLensType=1
zane
10 months ago |Paul…seriously mate….go and fu*ck yourself, coz the way you rant, I can’t see anyone doing “that” of there own free will…sad,sad man!!!
Catalin
10 months ago |The full-frame NEX sounds like an afterthought, given the adapter stuff, but if making full-frame E-mount lenses is possible technically in the near future, it would be a good idea after all.
admin
10 months ago |Yeah it is possible. The flange distance is very short but this is easy to overcome by simply adding more space between the last lens and the sensor. So technically perfectly possible.
Don Cox
10 months ago |The short flange distance is not a problem but a major advantage. It gives enormous flexibility – as no doubt the designers hoped when they invented the E mount.
If some lenses end up as far away from the sensor as SLR lenses, nobody is any worse off. Other lenses can be small and close to the sensor for when you want to pocket the camera. The bigger lenses can be used when you need top quality images of wildlife, sports or macro subjects; the small lenses (maybe cropped) can be used for street and family photos.
Or the camera can be attached to microscopes, telescopes or other instruments.
I think we are coming into a golden age for photography.
Dave Lively
10 months ago |“If some lenses end up as far away from the sensor as SLR lenses, nobody is any worse off.”
This could be one reason why they are not waiting to develop an native FF lenses before they introduce the camera. If the native lens would end up being nearly as large as an A mount lens and adapter the only advantage of the native lens would be its AF motor would be optimized for CDAF.
I have no interest myself in a FF NEX at this time or in the foreseeable future. I really want a camera with smaller lenses but was not happy with the image quality I got with the m43 camera I tried. APS-C seems to be the sweet spot for me when it comes to balancing IQ with size. I would be upset if Sony develops a new line of FF E-mount lenses instead of filling in the remaining gaps in the APS-C line. But as long as Sony does not divert their apparently scarce lens development resources to creating lenses for a FF mount this rumored camera is just an interesting development that has no impact on what I want from NEX. With this camera Sony can both satisfy FF enthusiasts and not alienate current APS-C NEX users like me.
mugen
10 months ago |I like this idea, sounds like great camera.
documensony
10 months ago |Paul wrote: “Being able to add NEX lenses to a full-frame Alpha body is the equivalent of adding Nikon lenses to a NEX body.”
Please inform us, how you obtain FF-images from any current Nex-model? Even with a Nikon lens…
Spoon
10 months ago |Obviously Paul is so intelligent that he sees this (FF lenses such as Nikkors using the full FF image circle on such a mirrorless body) being possible where no one else can.
woyou
10 months ago |hi admin. This is exactly you said as “hybrid” mount long before. Any difference that I miss? If I guess correct, it will announce soon. Thanks for your work
ras
10 months ago |weird. camera companies make their money selling lenses, and people generally prefer the convenience and “tidiness” of native lenses over the “funkiness” of adapted lenses. why pass up the money? too many things on the plate? not likely, imo. the full frame nex rumor is already too good to be true, but full frame nex with no native lenses strains credulity. the former would be a nice surprise, the latter a big disappointment.
Don Cox
10 months ago |I doubt if Sony makes much of its money from lenses. Their big sales will be in cameras, most of which are fixed-lens.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the sales of the RX-100 alone were bigger than for all their lenses together. I guess that 80% of those who buy a NEX never buy another lens for it. Most users do not frequent enthusiast forums like this.
ras
10 months ago |i wasn’t talking about fixed lens cameras. obviously you can’t sell interchangeable lenses in that case.
as for 80% of people not buying another lens, i thought roughly 50% buy another lens. also, interchangeable lenses are a major selling point, a comforting thought that increases value to most people’s minds. generally, people favor more costly cameras that have interchangeable lenses, which helps justify the price. just look at how fixed lens mirrorless cameras are less popular (with one exception) and fewer in number. if sony doesn’t make native lenses for full frame nex, they won’t sell as many as they would otherwise. it’ll be a dud, sort of like the lazy effort known as the pentax k-01.
documensony
10 months ago |If this new camera comes with interchangeable Alpha- and E-mounts, in FF mode then Alpha lenses will become the native lenses for it. In APS-C mode, there will be a free choice between native E- and Alpha-mount lenses.
ras
10 months ago |so, adapted lenses are native lenses? black is white?
no, not really. =(
Dennis_photo
10 months ago |One interesting aspect is if Sony, or someone else, will develop adaptors similar to the LA-EA2 with focus motor and phase detect autofocus.
I suppose Sony can make such adaptors for Canon, Nikon, Leica and other mounts and this would increase camera and adaptor sale. But maybe the decrease of lens sale will prevent such a product line.
Since no other company has made this kind of adaptors so far, I guess that either it is too difficult/expensive or that Sony has patents for the SLT tech that prevents other companies from making similar products.
documensony
10 months ago |“I suppose Sony can make such adaptors for Canon, Nikon, Leica and other mounts and this would increase camera and adaptor sale. But maybe the decrease of lens sale will prevent such a product line.”
You bet.
I think we will se a very cler line being drawn between autofocus and manual focus here. Autofocus will be for Sony lenses only.
Monkey
10 months ago |Hybrid mount my a**.
1. The flange focal distances are very different.
2. There would be no practical advantage for a camera with an A-mount to have some weird semifunctional N-mount built in as well.
3. The extra compexity adds very significantly to the manufacturing cost
4. SR5 -> SR1
5. What could happen is A99 without the mirror and with PDAF implemented on the chip (as per Sony patent, Nikon-1 etc.)
GunnarK
10 months ago |Monkey wrote:
“5. What could happen is A99 without the mirror and with PDAF implemented on the chip (as per Sony patent, Nikon-1 etc.)”
No, that could hardly happen – i.e. that PDAF On-Board-Sensor would replace mirror-PDAF in the coming AXX. The On-Board-Sensor solution is far inferior. Not only now, but probably for all future regardless of any technical advances, because On-Board-Sensor PDAF is already today not too far away from nature of law limitations.
So if we want fast PDAF even in bad light we will most probably have to rely on mirror solutions even in the future.
Perhaps I’ll better add that this is NOT the case for EVFs. They have a much wider margin before banging into the laws of nature walls, meaning that we can expect substantial improvements in future EVFs.
These are my predictions based on my knowledge as an electronic engineer.
.
Sky_walker
10 months ago |^ yep. What he said. Diffraction, and number of photons hitting the sensor are limited. Mirror-based solutions gather magnitude more photons into the PDAF sensors, so always will have an advantage.
Booe
10 months ago |>is already today not too far away from nature of law limitations.
Oh please, tell us which nature’s law limits efficiency of on-sensor PDAF.
Of course, if you ever happen to know any.
redfern
10 months ago |Are you Paul Genge, out to discredit this site?
Joe
10 months ago |So it’s a FF camera with an E mount but if you use E mount lenses you don’t get FF. Huh? If you want FF you must use an adaptor. Huh? All this talk of adaptors for Nikon, Canon, Leica… who will make these adaptors? Sony? Don’t count on it. Nikon? Canon? Leica? Don’t count on that either. None of this makes any sense.
Monkey
10 months ago |What however makes sense is this:
1. A superjuicy supercertain rumor
2. A tempting donation button underneath the rumor
3. One feels good and thankful of the great rumor and donates money
Arnold
10 months ago |Be there to make apologies in some months…
Or even now, if Andrea wanted to make money he would spend his time in another way, he does this because it’s his passion,
and we all should be thankful for it !
If you don’t like this blog, don’t use his bandwidth.
Monkey
10 months ago |So the advertisements on this site are just there by accident, then donation button just appeared by accident as well… he has this site for making money (it’s like a second job, if not the only one) – I am sure he likes this work as well?
I mean no offense, but you sound like a fanboy. No criticism allowed, just loyal obedience and accepting everyting which comes by. An SR5 rumor with donation button turns out to be false by another SR5 rumor which is downright illogical. And I should be thankful for this? Really?
I do like reading rumors – sometimes they make sense, most of the time not. And occasionally I like to comment on the ones which are supposed to be almost certainly factual when they almost certainly are not. Too bad you’re not thankful for me for that as my contribution does not fit your hopes and wishes, though you should be thankful
Spoon
10 months ago |Let’s see, Andrea posts something that is apparently confirmed by one or more sources that turned out to be very reliable in the past. The concept is considered interesting, good or even excellent by quite a few people. And rubbish or not so interesting by quite a few too.
Apparently you fall into the latter category and feel your perception or preference weighs heavier than reliable sources.
Don’t be surprised people take reliable sources over simple opinion.
I have questioned a few details from high rated rumors in the past (CF in A77, I was right, 24MP sensor in first FF SLT, I was likely wrong), but not the whole concept of an SR5 to the point that it should be called SR1. Because I don’t have Andrea’s sources…
admin
10 months ago |As you see your comment is here. I placed on single donation button in one year. As usual Monkey…there is always people complaining about my rumors. You should have seen ho many people like you commented years ago when I posted about the SLT technology. You “monkeys” said I was just driving traffic and blablabla. It’s obvious, every time I post a SR5 rumor there is people like you. And every time they disappear after seeng that I was right. It will happen that some rumors go wrong fro a reason or another. But this is human.
john
10 months ago |Don;t bite the hand that feeds you.
documensony
10 months ago |Keep the rumors rolling, Andrea! You’re doing a superb job.
Booe
10 months ago |By writing comments you, monkey, increase SAR position in google searches, which indirectly brings more money to Andrea
admin
10 months ago |Wow Monkey! Nice to have you here
john
10 months ago |Andrea you should start charging admission at the TROLL bridge for people like Monkey.
admin
10 months ago |a bit frustrating these trolls. They come here, put shit on you and than when the rumor turns out to be right they disappear. Always the same. I repeat, there will times when rumors I post are wrong. But until now I had a pretty reliable track (with just some mistake). I hope that after three year of work people will get it that I am doing a honest work. It’s pretty obvious that If I start to post false rumors this websites dies within one week
documensony
10 months ago |It’s the name of the game, Andrea, I’m afraid.
During my many years as an investigative business reporter, my news was again and again belied and denied … reporters from competitive media were told not to believe the news … often, theats of going to court were made. And then … months or years later, when the deal was closed or the accounts were opened (and my story was proven true), the same folks would simply shrug their shoulder and say ‘well, you were right, but it wasn’t conevenient for us at the time’.
The name of the game … if you’re out early, and you are
acolyte
10 months ago |Sorry Andrea, some of us could’ve help fend against these trolls but there’s too many of them people like me gave up on fending them off
That said, great work on continuing the site for years. I’m still happily carrying my a77 and nex7, as this site kept me believing in Sony, and no regrets.
redfern
10 months ago |What about it doesn’t make sense? If you want compactness for travel, mount an APS-C E-mount lens. If you want FF resolution and DOF, put on an adapter and an A-mount lens. The point is that you don’t have to buy two cameras to have full functionality: this camera can do it all.
As for the adapters, many already exist on ebay for Leica, Nikon, Canon, etc. Only now they will have a FF sensor to play with.
documensony
10 months ago |+1
ZeevK
10 months ago |@Joe
Since it is same E mount and same flange distance – no need for new adapters, the existing ones will do the job. Currently when you put a Leica lens on NEX-7 via an adapter, the APS-C sensor is smaller than the lens coverage. Just replace the APS-C censor with FF sensor – and this is it. Now the same Leica lens with the same adapter is exposing a FF sensor instead of a cropped one.
john
10 months ago |@Joe
” If you want FF you must use an adaptor. Huh? All this talk of adaptors for Nikon, Canon, Leica… who will make these adaptors? ”
Probably the same people that make these:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=nex&_sop=10&_osacat=625&_fln=1&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=nex+adapters&_sacat=625
documensony
10 months ago |The new camera will probably come with a FF sensor and TWO native and interchangeable mounts – Alpha and E-mount. Exciting!
Mats
10 months ago |Joe wrote:
“So it’s a FF camera with an E mount but if you use E mount lenses you don’t get FF. Huh? If you want FF you must use an adaptor. Huh? All this talk of adaptors for Nikon, Canon, Leica… who will make these adaptors? Sony? Don’t count on it. Nikon? Canon? Leica? Don’t count on that either. None of this makes any sense.”
No, propably not a camera with E-mount, but rather a camera to which you could attach any mount you like. If you attach an E-mount or m4/3 baynet, then it will be crop mode, but if you attach an A-mount, EF oer Nikon F or old film cameras such as konica Hexanon AR or medium format such as Hasselblad or whatever, you can fully take advantage of the FF-sensor.
Sony will definitively make adapters for A-mount and E-mount -with and without SLT – but no others. The other manufacturers will not make adapters to fit their lenses to other cameras, but ther will not be any lack of adapters. lots of companies will see the business oppurtunity, both simple cheap china-made manual adapters, but also more sofisticated ones with higher quality.
Maybe Sigma and other third party lens-providers will make fully automatic adapters for Canon and Nikon lenses, since they already have the technology in-house and know the protocols and so on.
It could very well be that Sony is more interested in selling the cameras where they can put more and more electronics in and not so eager to earn their money on lenses which are much more mechanical and does not evolve as fast.
/Mats
Edgars
10 months ago |Lets talk about price. People think they get FF NEX for 1000+USD, bet it’s a dream. Such camera will cost similarly to FF A-mount or 2500+USD/EUR. As mentioned it will come with native FF AF lenses… actually there is no possibility to mount any lens without adapter. Camera for nothing and everything seems to be not for me.
Why just not make mirorless A-mount camera if NEX will not be compact any way?
Sky_walker
10 months ago |I think the lowest price they might go with will be one of Nikon D600.
But most likely it’ll be more expensive, as Sony currently needs any profits it might generate.
tony
10 months ago |say that to m9 users. the body its self is not pocket able, yet it sells.
Gianluca
10 months ago |“Why just not make mirorless A-mount camera if NEX will not be compact any way?”
Simple… you loose ability to mount 50 f1,8 oss or 18-200 with acrive steady shot, you loose ability to mount leica 35 f1,4 summilux or minolta 58 f1,2 rokkor, you loose ability to mount canon 85 f1,2 fd, while, if you want to mount a sony 85 f2,8 autofocus, you always can…
pancanikonpus
10 months ago |as too far to get organic sensor, with no color array filtering change, we can only expect the performance and feature are 5-10% increment from the past. not really able fit into the term “revolutionary” change, bore game! lol…
LR
10 months ago |Few month ago, I asked for an E+A mount camera with crop mode. People laughed at me. I forgive them.
What I understand now is that sony wants to develop its new mirrorless mount (e-mount) that can be for aps-c Nex or FF Nex. The actual lenses are APS-C only though.
Probably the A-mount will very slowly fade away but a true mirror will be always appreaciated anyway by still photograpers.
I made my choice: mirrorless lenses.
documensony
10 months ago |LR wrote: “Probably the A-mount will very slowly fade away.”
Expect Sony to develop FF lenses for Alpha mount only and APS-C lenses for Nex mount only from now on.
LR
10 months ago |FF alpha mount with no 44m registration distance?
that would make sence, you are right.
documensony
10 months ago |Why would sony change the registration distance for either Alpha or E mounts? The mounts will remain the same.
The camera, however, will be able to use both mount – most likely by attaching (For Alpha lenses) or removing (For E mount lenses) the mirrorbox.
And the E-mount will take all kind of adapters (like M mount) to use i.e. rangefinder lenses with the FF sensor.
No other camera presents such kind of flexibility for the FF format at present.
Judd
10 months ago |If this camera allows for APS-C crop mode, perhaps it can also allow for a m43 crop mode. It would be a shame to use m43 cropped lens on a full frame sensor, but flexibility is a good thing. A flexible crop mode could do some damage to OMD and other m43 camera sales.
Perhaps with a flexible crop mode we could even crop up from APS-C, and discover that the lens allows for a larger use of the sensor than an APS-C crop….
LR
10 months ago |I think it’s about time to see a round sensor in which we can pick the crop we want, (even non conventional onces like vertical…)
My xperia phone already have a round sensor: i can choose a 16/9crop that fit exactly my LCD screen and better for landscapes. But i prefer the 4/3 ratio that gives me more top and bottom field of view.
davey
10 months ago |Since most m43 lenses are fully electronic (focus and aperture), there’s no point in trying to use them. With a manual lens like one of the Voigtlanders, you can just use the APS-C crop and lop off the sides (the actual sensor height isn’t that much different; it’s mostly the width because of the aspect ratio).
Andy
10 months ago |This is kind of contradictory. First you say that there will be NO native e mount ff lens system then you say there WILL be a native ff e mount camera.
Does this mean they will release a camera then never make any lenses for it?
LR
10 months ago |To release full frame e-mount lenses, perhaps tsony would not introduice SAM nor OSS in order to gain space. Body would make the stabilisation and would have the motor for AF?
Nick
10 months ago |This seems like a stop-gap measure to me.
obviously it can work, just like the current LEA2 adapter works.
But a NEX system that relies on A-mount lenses is very sub-optimal because:
1) The lenses are bigger than they need to be: if I want a compact solution for travel I’m not gonna spend money on this, only to be obliged to use it in crop mode if I want it to be compact with an E-lens. I’d just get a Nex 7.
2) You need to introduce PDAF somehow for A-mount lenses although maybe that’ll be sorted with a new sensor.
3) the issue of IBIS – can be done – I can see the body attaining Xpro1 dimensions, but people might like that.
So it’s mainly point 1 which is unsurmountable.
Having produced this beautiful piece of kit, the only sensible thing to do is further down the road start providing new designs for E-mount lenses that can do full frame but are more compact than A mount lenses. This is perfectly possible as anyone who has seen a Leica lens mounted on a Nex knows.
Theres an opportunity to trump Leica with autofocus included, but they’ll need new E-mount lenses to do it.
Spoon
10 months ago |It doesn’t just rely on the A mount because it’s not just a convergence of A and E mount, but in essence of almost all mounts, with the option to use use the FF image circle with many of those.
So it’s not merely there to attract/keep Sony shooters. Even many of the existing NEX shooters are also invested in for example Nikon or Canon. And then there’s all the legacy 35mm glass, including countless compact ones.
Nick
10 months ago |Yeah sure I get that, the prospect of using all those nice lenses on a full frame sensor is very appealing. I use Nikon lenses on my Nex and I like the results. FF would be even better. But that’s still:
- manual focus (someone might cater for AF but probably not Sony).
- a bit unwieldy (depending on the mount).
I just find it hard to believe that Sony would not then follow the logical development of introducing a relatively compact full frame autofocus solution with lenses actually designed for that flange distance. And that means new FF E-mount lenses.
Spoon
10 months ago |I can see them not making promises but if the concept proves to be relatively popular, I think that they eventually will.
Nick
10 months ago |We’ll see !
Personally I find it strange to introduce a top flight new camera and not offer even one lens that is specifically designed for it. If I were Sony I’d offer at least a prime at the launch.
documensony
10 months ago |The key word here is HYBRID – the new camera will be born to carry Alpha kenses (with mirrorbox attached) AND E-mount lenses (with mirrorbox removed).
Both Alpha and E-mount lenses will be native lenses for the camera (that will accomodate an FF sensor for almost every other FF lens ever made as well).
Patrick
10 months ago |It relies on A mount to have a FF coverage and AF which:
a) could be either really good with the help of a translucent mirror BUT it makes FF NEX into A99—so why bother?
b) SLR lenses offer no advantage to non SLR lenses covering full frame and are too big to consider a FF NEX for FF use if A99 will do the same at the same volume!
So this camera is rather aimed at Leica lenses crowd which, like me, has moved from M mount cameras to NEX for its size and focus peaking capabilities among other improvements not found in the M mount. That being said, we all quit too the FF dream and accepted APS C as our main work format because of what it can give now…which is more than enough.
So, I would buy a FF NEX because I will be able to mount my M mounts there, but I wouldnt buy it if it was for AF FF lenses because I could get an A99 and do the same thing and have the same volume, essentially.
Nick
10 months ago |I think you’re contradicting yourself slightly there.
A FF Nex will be good with M-mount lenses but you wouldn’t buy it with AF lenes – OK understood.
But thats only because current AF lenses are A-mount and therefore take up too much space.
Whats to stop Sony, in the near future, producing Leica-style lenses with AF on an E-mount ?
Definitely more compact than an A99.
Wouldn’t that make you happy ?
Patrick
10 months ago |It doesnt stop them, but the release that Andrea is giving here means that up until that point happens, one must see the FF NEX for what it is:
1) A crop sensor AF small NEX lens cam
2) A FF big volume AF FF NEX cam
3) A FF cam for your M lenses
That is all it will be at the beginning and, knowing Sony how it releases lenses, it may stay like that for the first year and a half or so.
A.Hirsch
10 months ago |Can’t understand some complaints. Guys, for the first time this might be the real poor man’s Leica! Not the XPro 1 or the NEX 7 with cropped sensors but a universal camera for some great classic lenses. Moreover, it is based on the E-mount which is open to the third parties unlike other mounts. Great news!
documensony
10 months ago |My thoughts excactly!
Patrick
10 months ago |On that thought, yes, a poor man’s Leica but not many want to use Manual Focus when AF could be a possibility, but this possibility (AF FF) will only be real with big A mount lenses.
Early adopters will likely be M mount lens owners.
I dont see A mount lens owners going for this at the beginning if A99 is out.
I don’t see E lens mount owners going for this and keeping their lenses.
documensony
10 months ago |Patrick wrote: “… not many want to use Manual Focus when AF could be a possibility, but this possibility (AF FF) will only be real with big A mount lenses”
For a start, yes. No bad start either. And things will evolve from there…
Thom Hogan
10 months ago |I don’t get this “poor man’s Leica” bit. Never really did, actually, even back in the film days when we actually got such things.
First, a Leica M is a fairly large camera. Far larger than the NEX models. Second, the real gem with Leica is the lenses, which are still going to cost the same if you add them via adapter to a NEX model or anything else, thus they’re not “poor man’s” by any definition. Third, if you don’t use compact primes on this future FF NEX model, the lenses are just as big as they are on a DSLR (actually slightly longer due to the adapter), so the primary thing you’ve gained is a very small body (see first point).
Okay, so the bottom line is this: you can mount Leica lenses on a cheaper, smaller body. We’ve always been able to do that. The only thing that changes here is that FF restores the focal length.
Meanwhile I look at a camera such as the Fujifilm X-Pro1: it and its lenses so far are a very close rival for a Leica M9 and its lenses, only far cheaper. THAT seems more like a “poor man’s Leica” to me.
Frankly, I don’t care either way. I just want supremely competent cameras with excellent lenses. I don’t particularly care what brand name is on the front, nor am I overly concerned about their cost (within reason, of course).
Patrick
10 months ago |Thank you.
I advocate for the same point…small full frame lenses. That will be the real deal maker, not the SLR mammoths on the small body.
documensony
10 months ago |Thom wrote: “Okay, so the bottom line is this: you can mount Leica lenses on a cheaper, smaller body. We’ve always been able to do that. The only thing that changes here is that FF restores the focal length.”
I’d very much like to see that change happening, because so far only Leica M9 have offered this – and that camera is certainly not for everyone (for many reasons).
If Sony’s new breed of FF SLT cameras do catch on (3 different models including the hybrid seem to be in the pipeline for 2012-13), I am sure we will see a handful of very nice G and/or Zeiss FF/AF rangefinder lenses appearing for E-mount too. In due time.
If Sony/Zeiss pick the range right, not many more FF E-mount lenses may be needed, since the hybrid camera is also tailored for the full Alpha lenses portfolio.
I am sure quite a few technical issues are still to be resolved (AF from sensor and corner issues being just two), and it will be interesting to see how Sony will tackle these challenges.
tamrong
10 months ago |as “universal” as possible.
I love this word,
Maxwell
10 months ago |Well I hope Sigma will make some small native E-mount FF primes.
I don’t want to use adapters because of the added size.
Native E-mount FF lenses, maybe with collapsible design to get
them small. They can extend when in use, and collaps when camera
turned off.
kingrenas
10 months ago |To support a A-mount FF lenses, Sony only need is to create a new adapter model ‘LA-A3F’ for the NEX camera and that will make more sense rather than changing the mounting system on the camera directly. Otherwise it won’t be called a NEX system.
The other point is the camera will be slightly larger than NEX-7 and maybe almost the same size as Leica.
In the next couple months probably a few spy designs or pictures will start to emerge on the web. The most important for me is ‘How much it will cost?’.
Almazar80
10 months ago |It makes more sense to have an E to A mount adapter for A mount mirrorless cameras (both APS-C and full frame). That may come out first before a native E mount full frame. After all, there is a bevy of A mount full frame lenses. On the E mount? Not so much. So why come out with a camera that almost every lens will us an adapter when you can make one with a more mature infrastructure.
The rumored 70-200 and 70-400 revisions may actually be changing over to a stepper motor. Going to a mirrorless full frame with phase and contract AF detection will require this for the best operation. Who knows why though, in the end, except for Sony?
Rick
10 months ago |If this sees the light of say – its going to have to be a bit larger than the Nex7, something more like the Xpro1 or M9 size in order to accommodate the sensor, associated lens contacts and have any chance at shooting video without having overheating issues like the 5n and 7. That’s still less bulky than a DSLR, but with the A/E mount adapter, it loses most of its size/weight advantage. I have the LAEA1 and the 16-50/2.8 that I use with my 5n, its big.
Given the fact that its likely to cost almost as much as the coming A99/95/9x or whatever its called (if not more since revolutionary tech is never cheap) and the fact that it’ll need Alpha lenses for FF images, I just don’t see how this camera will succeed, and Sony has to know that. The ALT lens adapter crowd is not enough to support an entire cameras production, pros will choose the new A9X over NexFF because of controls and AF, and casual shooters will be looking at the 5/7 along with the EOS-M, Pen, V1/J1.
This camera just makes no sense financially. Few people are going to pay $2500 or more for a tiny body + adapter and big Alpha lens setup. My wife asks me to put the 18-55 back on the 5n everytime she shoots with it because a giant lens on a small body is a bit of a pain to carry around.
I believe this rumor is a series prototypes Sony is tinkering with that will never see store shelves. Its vaporware.
Patrick
10 months ago |My point exactly, because a FF coverage needs the A mount line which minimises any size difference between the A99 and the FF NEX.
Sony should develop a NEW lens line for this camera (Small Full Frame AF Coverage Lenses) otherwise its stupid to have an SLR lens on a FF mirrorless (I don’t see Leica m9 users doing that with their cameras)
Atlasman
10 months ago |Patrick
An NEX-FF is more future-proof than the A-99. Nothing to stop Sony from producing an adapter that also bulks up the camera for shooting with larger lenses.
documensony
10 months ago |Think about it as a fully functional FF SLT-camera with a detachable mirrorbox and an E-mount underneath.
This camera with an FF sensor will take ALL Alpha lenses via the Alpha mount – and ALL other FF lenses ever made (including rangefinder lenses) via the E-mount.
And remember: FF sensor.
What other camera does anything even close??
Patrick
10 months ago |If you want AF full frame, you buy A99.
If you want small form factor and full frame, you need M lenses and FF NEX but no AF.
There is no option for small form factor FF AF
roger48
10 months ago |Why do you want FF at all? In a very few years it will be as redundant as 10×8 glass negatives. Sensor development is progessing at an accelerating rate and smaller will be the new FF.
EddyH
10 months ago |Please read the replies to your previous comments, in one of the previous posts, maybe you can get some new insight why some people do prefer full frame, for a very good reasons: “If you want to be creative and value a nice bokeh, full frame is a better option than APS-C. That’s also the reason why some people prefer fast primes: not for the extra light, but for the nicer bokeh. And for a lot of enthousiasts, photography is about being creative… That kind of ‘superb quality’ isn’t feasable with APS-C and certainly not with smaller sized sensors. But if you only want images that are sharp all the way, yes then full frame is overkill…”
documensony
10 months ago |EddyH wrote: ““If you want to be creative and value a nice bokeh, full frame is a better option than APS-C”
And that is excactly why FF cameras like Canon 5D or Nikon D800 are immensely popular amongst many enthusiasts and professionals alike.
But the Canikons won’t take Leica lenses or rangefinder lenses at all … the new Sony FF hydrid camera will do that via an optional E mount.
Many photoraphers will come to value that flexibility, I am sure!
Son of Helm
10 months ago |For people with SLR glass, like Leica R or Contax RTS, this news is not about camera body size, but about being able at all to use this kind of premium low flare glass on a digital body, with FF capabilities.
Great news from my point to view.
Patrick
10 months ago |Nothing new in that department. The range of interest from these people also falls within the M lens owners crowd, manual focus lenses on FF digital body. But unlike M lens owners, they can already use Canon if they wanted SLR lenses in FF body, I did with my C/Y lenses. OK, no focus peaking, but you had split level screens for the OVF. Even better, you want FF and great OVF? Nikon.
Volume wise, is still the same as an SLR so the advantage of FF NEX and FF lenses would be only, for now, M lenses
documensony
10 months ago |Probably, yes. But things will move on from there…
Patrick
10 months ago |People that want SLRs will always buy SLRs.
People that like NEX, like it because it small and not because you can adapt SLR lenses on it!
Needs to start with a good focus in the beginning (like Fuji, aiming square at rangefinder small form factor prime lenses, small and quality) or it will be a carnival of shit in which one must choose which shit is best.
Patrick
10 months ago |I think documensony works for Sony, trying to convince people that FF NEX with no native FF NEX lenses (fast primes with AF coveringthe full frame, for example) is a great idea that could yield to other developments. It isn’t.
SLR lenses on NEX is a way of not loosing your manliness from the SLR lens sizes on a smaller body. 800g lens on a 500g body, I bet thats the way its gonna go “Hey baby, this lens shows I got my balls sorted out because it implies I got a full frame, right here, in my body.”
documensony
10 months ago |Patrick wrote: “Needs to start with a good focus in the beginning (like Fuji, aiming square at rangefinder small form factor prime lenses, small and quality) or it will be a carnival of shit in which one must choose which shit is best.”
Don’t expect the new FF hybrid to replace the range of APS-C NEX’es.
FF is a supplementary option. Nothing wrong with more choices – and in the end, more competition is usually to the benefit of users.
WT21
10 months ago |I need to upgrade my camera this fall.
I like this idea, but am I reading this correctly, that there’s nothing before 2013? I’ll need an interim solution then.
Patrick
10 months ago |This almost makes little sense. I thought the idea of mirrorless design was also smaller lenses (Leica, Zeiss ZM and Voigtlander M)
For Sony, in Sony-land:
a) If you want a FF NEX and use its full frame, you use big SLR lenses (of which, unfortunately, the 35mm 1.4 is not as good as the NEX 24mm 1.8 costing about the same amount of money) So you will have almost no size advantage and it will look like a slimmer A850 (with or without SLT mirror) but length wise, it will have to be the same. I don’t see how this would be a better advantage over the a99 as a whole and I don’t see, besides maybe styling, why would you want to buy this cam for full frame use with Sony lenses.
b) I mish-mash land, you can then use the plethora of Zeiss, Leica and Voigtlander lenses. This makes this the first cam to have a full frame digital body that will do video (because I don’t know now if the M10 will do video too) and focus peaking and the lot of other Sony wonders. This focus will probably be most successful. I have the 35mm 1.2 Nokton and I would love to see do wonders in its FF configuration.
c) No point for NEX owners to buy into the FF NEX if they only own NEX lenses now. Basically, you would only get the same image rendering as a normal NEX but you are paying for the FF factor albeit not using it.
Confusing choices, to be honest. I think the strategy looks like this camera wants to be a bit of a controversial launch and see what happens.I would be happier if Sony would develop a set of good primes for the FF NEX (35-50-85)
documensony
10 months ago |Any company can make great standard primes like 35, 50 or 85 mm focal lengths.
Noone but Sony it seems is able to make a fully competitive SLT Alpha mount camera with an E-mount behind the mirror box to take rangefinder lenses. In full frame!
Patrick
10 months ago |Compared to Canon, Nikon or Zeiss MF EF and F mount lenses, Sony’s 35mm are shit. See any photozone, slrgear or slrlens review comparison. Sony cannot deliver in the 35mm department and that is a department you want to have something competitive with for many professionals.
50s are not difficult to make but the 85s is, again, not the same. Sony has Zeiss on its side but it seems to use this ace of spades very rarely.
We are, anyways, talking about a new set of lenses (Small FF coverage AF lenses) and Sony will most likely release their own brand first (like on NEX and like on A mount when it was first released) so at the beginning, it won’t look too special with the options it has.
Spoon
10 months ago |The 35mm f/1.4 is a 25 year old Minolta design. The Sony designed APS-C 35mm f/1.8 shows they are perfectly capable of making an optically very good one at a low price. Now all they need to do is bring out a new FF higher end one too.
Patrick
10 months ago |When….is the question! when?
NEXfive
10 months ago |Sony’s perfect move, since as I wrote before they’ve got the leading sensor technology, their bodies perform inside the top range, but traditional optics isn’t what they’re really into. So they’re simply focussing on their most innovative abilities.
I’m pretty happy these days having decided for E-Mount. If it was for the lenses I would have chosen Fuji’s or Samsung’s mirrorless system, but what convinced me in 2010 has been Sony’s strategy of photography & video growing together with E-Mount. And since I’d got my Canon FD adapter before I got my NEX-5 already I’m feeling damn comfortable looking forward to a NEX-FF.
Funny to read in the comments here, that a full frame NEX seems to divide the inspired photographers from the fanboys. First were excited about this idea immediately when Andrea posted the rumour and never doubted at all while second still haven’t understood the concept several posts later.
documensony
10 months ago |“… the fanboys [...] still haven’t understood the concept several posts later.”
New concepts and changes often need time (and an official announcement maybe) to sink in
Back in 2006, in the months before the first Sony Alpha (a100) was announced, I remember many posters at DPR finding it simply IMPOSSIBLE to believe that Sony would choose a 10MP sensor instead of the KM5D’s already well-proven 6MP sensor.
I guess, to some extent, our brains are wired that way – not to accept changes unless absolutely necessary…
Rooru S.
10 months ago |I really don’t get the hybrid mount idea from the first place…disregarded the rumor about the A-Mount NEX-Styled camera because that camera would look like the ugly boxy pentax and no advantage over current SLT design would be generous enough. (mainly because if there is no PDAF sensor, then CDAF would be useless with current SSM and SAM lenses and the empty space for the registration distance aould make no sense in making a NEX styled camera when the concept behind NEX-cameras is to offer small cameras, at least talking about the DSC department)
then appeared the hybrid mount rumor…mmm how is it possible to mount both type of lenses in a single space? to me, the only feasible way is the current one, via adapter, but then, it is not hybrid, right?
then comes the registration distance…44.5 mm or 45 mm cant’t remember well, for A-Mount, vs. 18mm for E-Mount. How comes, you can mount both lenses in such a hybrid mount? Physics don’t allow using such lenses that way unless you put some extra glass and even then, you have to put an adapter. Then again, it’s not hybrid anymore.
What about radius? Both radius are different, so unless a complicated mount system is employed to adjust to both radius, this hybrid mount doesn’t look robust, don’t you think?
the main question I made to the FF NEX rumor was if they were going to release or keep E-Mount. Because if there is no native lenses (E-Mount) then I just see advantage of such a camera with FF Canon FD, Nikkor and other brands lennses. I don’t have M-Mount lenses, but to the comparison made of not having to buy a 7000USD Leica FF, At least there are native lenses for that camera that does use the advantage of having such a small registration distance.
Until the hybrid mount is described, I’m skeptic about this rumor. I do believe there will be a NEX with FF sensor, but not with a hybrid mount. If you want to use A-mount lenses on a E-Mount body, adapters is the way to follow for all the physical limitations I described before.
roger48
10 months ago |zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
documensony
10 months ago |“How comes, you can mount both lenses in such a hybrid mount? Physics don’t allow using such lenses that way unless you put some extra glass and even then, you have to put an adapter.”
The two mounts are probably interchangeable, and the camera is natively born for using both.
Use the Alpha mount (including mirror box and ca. 44 mm registration distance) and get full SLT functionality.
Use the E mount (with mirrorbox removed and ca. 18 mm registration distance) and get access to using all kind of rangefinder lenses for a full frame sensor.
That’s it.
Steve Jones
10 months ago |Sounds like a systems camera with a body capable of taking multiple adapters, two of which are A-Mount and E-Mount (probably the only two with full electronic integration). As such, I’d expect the basic body to be slim, but moderately wide and high.
In order to support A-Mount lenses, most of which are not suited to CAF, I’d expect the A-Mount adapter to be an SLT. Hopefully it will have IBIS too.
I can’t see how this could be achieved with a hybrid mount without adapters as E mount lenses will not fit through the throat of A-Mount. Also, if the purpose is to have a slim and fairly compact camera with FF capability and the ability to mount alien third party FF lenses, the compromises require to support A-Mount without an adapter will surely be too high.
bingowashisnamo
10 months ago |A ha! So it could be something like the Ricoh GXR! Except the sensor stay on the camera body. Interchangable front portion of camera with mounts attached. This way, technically 3rd parties can create motorized mounts for just about any AF mount.
Maybe yes, maybe not, but it’s a new way to look at this “Hybrid FF” camera.
Si
10 months ago |Please don’t tell this is going to be the much vaunted A99 and delayed again ;-} Whilst the idea of using my A mount galss on a compact bodied full frame it will make handling an issue as my glass is G and CZ, big and heavy.
Please, please, please can we have the new A99 details, confirmed, rock solid release date, I want another FF SLT (SLR).
Si
NEXfive
10 months ago |Why this fear? Sony’s not giving up on their A-Mount customers at all like Canon did when switching from FD to EF-Mount. This is good news for you.
Well, they’ve given up the mirror for SLT and with phase detection onboard the sensor they might even give up the translucent mirror for an electronic viewfinder and this might even become Sony’s future hybrid system.
But whatever will happen it’s a clear statement for full frame and A-Mount lenses towards a system that’s completely hybrid photography & video either. You should celebrate, mate.
AlphaK9
10 months ago |+111
CRB
10 months ago |Sony already takes forever to develop good e mount lenses (most of them are average) and now you have to wait a few years more for dedicated FF e mount lenses…thats a relief…jeh.
Steve
10 months ago |It difficult to read this thread without realizing that many do read the top as posted by the Admin and before long posters have created a completely different message often fitting the dreams and desires of the posters involved.
As I stated early on yesterday’s cluster-fuck of posts and rewrites of the rumor; “Show me the lenses”.
Yes again, show me the lenses at the very beginning because as many others has posted, without the lenses nothing makes since.
Maybe, just maybe Sony will show its direction when or if it starts releasing new optics for the rumored full-frame next month.
NEXfive
10 months ago |Well, I’m pretty sure analysing threads like this is part of Sony marketing either. They’ve waited until Nikon & Canon presented their boring mirrorless systems and now they’ve fed a rumour site with first hints to improve their strategy of communicating their next big move.
They’ve integrated rumour sites into their marketing already. It’s a way to heat up the excitement shortly before the announcement & release and in case a rumour site gets too much out of control they’re pressuring them like Apple did with Gizmodo or they’re sending lawyers for stupid reasons simply to cause frustration.
Forthcoming event on 28th August Paul Genge or whoever will announce the new stuff will have prepared argumentations against everything they’ve watched Andrea getting stupid bashes for…
documensony
10 months ago |You are probably right. And fine with me
pancanikonpus
10 months ago |Rumors puzzles are now connected piece by piece. we could say 3 FF speculated from Sony 2012-13: hybrid mount (NexFF), Amount LowMP (A99), Amount HighMP (A1).
As the race continues, will we see a new format beyond FF below MF? But in reality, MP better or high Format better?
Steve
10 months ago |I guess this whole idea that Sony will invest its resources to create a camera that only operates at its full potential by using other manufactures lens or old lenses from years past using some adapter is exciting to many posters on this blog.
Although for the rest of us that don’t own a bunch of old lenses and are not interested in searching eBay and only own A-mount or the newer E-mount or looking for Sony to supply new lenses, this idea sounds very strange.
RMA
10 months ago |That seems a fair statement. I have a lot of old glass (various mounts, but mostly Canon FDs and Pentax screw mount) and the only reason I own a mirrorless camera is to use that glass. Using it at FF would be better, especially for the fast wide primes.
Mike
10 months ago |The prices of A-mount lenses will go up for sure due to higher demand (possibly only SSM/SAM lenses depending on which kind of AF the hybrid NEX will have). I was going to reduce my collection, but now I might reconsider.
Dirk
10 months ago |Would it also be possible to use FF lenses (like Zeiss, Leica or Voigtländer) in crop mode? That would be awesome (if so one could use one lens for two focal lenghts, e.g. a 35mm lens for 35mm and 50mm). That would be the one lens to go on a FF-Nex for me.
Sahaja
10 months ago |Well you can always crop the picture to achieve the same result.
Dirk
10 months ago |Sure I can do that afterwards, but I really would love to have the cropped picture in the EVF or on the display for composing (getting the 50mm field of view with a 35mm lens).
Paul is an idiot
10 months ago |Hey Paul. If you don’t like the speculation involved in a RUMOR site than go read some other site and stop being a douche here.
EddyH
10 months ago |Please read this excellent article by David Kilpatrick: http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/08/19/should-nex-go-full-frame/
It has the answer to your questions, doubts, …
documensony
10 months ago |So E mount is clearly big enough for FF, but not big enough for FF with image stabilizing … unless the electronics of the mount is somehow rearranged/redesigned.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Doug Frost
10 months ago |This is fantastic news (if it turns out to be true). Finally I’ll get to use my FF Zeiss A-Mount glass on a new FF Sony camera with a sensor that isn’t crippled by a translucent mirror that diverts 20% of the light away from it.
john
10 months ago |Very heavy traffic on the troll bridge today.
:-/~
john
10 months ago |Andrea
All this talk of FF nex hybrid mount.
Is there any hint of NEX VG/FS series video going full frame?
admin
10 months ago |yes. Will post soemthing about it soon!
Calxn
10 months ago |Sony really should have consulted with reputable optical engineers before designing the E mount. E-A hybrid sounds like a severe compromise. The idea of resorting to big SLR lenses for FF capabilities on a mirror less cam is not something to look forward to. This is not the FF solution we’ve been waiting for. With everyone’s cards on the table, it appears we won’t be getting the cam we really want… From any manufacturer.
john
10 months ago |What is the camera WE want?
Denis
10 months ago |The camera that really benefits from short flange distance. No mirrorless camera does it now.
This task (proper sensor design) is not trivial, of course, but it must be done. This will be another great leap in photography industry.
Mike
10 months ago |So you think Sony (including former Minolta lens designers that now work for Sony) is a bunch of amateurs?
Roman
10 months ago |Looks like Sony is aiming at competing against Canikon making their biggest weakness (lack of lenses) their “new” strength with a system that is open to every mount of any other brand.
Waiting for it big time!!!
DingoB
10 months ago |Why all this whining about the camera not being the camera we want, huge lenses and so on. It’s fucking awesome that a company like sony FINALLY is getting out there pulling a smart move, making a tiny FF camera.
I have been shooting mamiya/phase one, hasseblad, canikon, leica, sony and some other brands in different sizes, but the one I tended to use the most was my M9.. Why? because it was F*%”&ing small and handy..
This is the camera a lot of us have been waiting for, for a loooong time!
THIS IS AWESOME!
RVN
10 months ago |+1000000000000
hell yeahh!! small full frame hybrid A/E mount camera would be great!
calxn
10 months ago |It’s your interpretation of what you’re reading. The idea of a small FF mirrorless with giant SLR lenses does not seem to be the equivalent of what Leica has. Perhaps you did not read the same rumor as I did. Here, this is the rumor I read:
“(SR5) There will be not a new native E-mount Full Frame lens system! The cameras are E-A mount hybrid (and more…)”
See, I read “will NOT be a new NATIVE E-mount Full Frame…” I’d rather have a FF mirrorless with FF lenses designed for it so it will be small. See, I want SMALL CAMERA + SMALL LENSES. I have a friend who’s using the NEX-7 with large contax lenses. It’s doable but is very uncomfortable and makes him look like a dork.
btw, not sure why it matters you’ve used medium format. I own H4D-50 and D800. I still would prefer small lenses on my NEX-7 when traveling instead of Nikkor SLR lenses on the NEX.
RVN
10 months ago |with mirrorless camera can design to be small
so don’t worry about size, i believe in the future camera will be more small not large like DSLR 
voyager42
10 months ago |This is getting to be fun… I made a comment about 6 months ago on this forum about a NEX FF with CZ 50/1.4 being a nice wish instead of buying a Leica M9…
If the Leica M9 18MP body is $7000 and a Leica 50/1.4 is around $3000 then it would cost me about $10,000 to get into it.
If Sony produces a NEX FF 24MP or even 36MP body for $2500 and a Carl Zeiss FF AF 50/1.4 E-mount lens for $2500 then I’m looking at $5000 which is half the price of the Leica… What’s not to like???… I’m in!!!…
I also don’t see a problem with Sony releasing a NEX FF E-mount body with NO lenses at first… As everyone has pointed out there are lots of lenses/adapters that could be used before Sony comes out with FF E-mount lenses.
Having said that my wish would be that they announce the NEX FF with a top quality FF E-mount Prime lens at the same time. Preferably a Zeiss FF AF 50/1.4 … I’m hooked!!!…
RVN
10 months ago |another great news!! sony like no other
john
10 months ago |Despite all the usual bitching I can’t see any downside to this.
Hoola
10 months ago |F & F or F the F…just give me built-in GPS…and I will load up on NEX stuff.
EnPassant
10 months ago |The Sony NEX fullframe will be:
One Camera to rule them all,
One Camera to find them,
One Camera to bring them all and in the light mount them
In the Land of Photography where the Rays of light shine.
Poke
10 months ago |I was worried about staying with Sony (almost went to Nikon), but the future looks great to me. The fact they produced a tremendous pocket camera like the RX100. I may have to get one of those. I have been shooting a lot of sporting events with my 5n with the LA-E2 adaptor with EVF. I love the EVF (do not miss the OVF). I prefer it over my 850 for sports but miss the controls and handling of the 850. However, the speed and accuracy of the AF with SLT is unmatched by anything I have seen. That is why I cannot wait for the A99 or 95 or whatever. If I can shoot at 6400 with insignificant noise and sharp images I will be ecstatic. This new FF nex will be on my shortlist when it arrives. The nex 6 is another great choice because the integrated EVF in the 6 makes it the near perfect 5n. I hate the fact that I don’t have flash with my 5n at the same time I have the EVF attached. Sony seems to be one of the top innovators in photography at this time. I believe their mere presenence will push Nikon and Canon and photographers everywhere will benefit. ANDREA!, please keep my head spinning with all this great stuff. I check this site every hour or so to see any info regarding my new alpha FF and cannot believe that we will probably see a FF mirror-less camera within a year. Awesome stuff.
Gadge
10 months ago |Yawn… We will see in September
Mick
10 months ago |I wonder if the contrast and phase detection hybrid system will help with the autofocusing on a full frame system. The shallow focus associated with full frame means I will need all the help I can get with autofocus.
poch
10 months ago |what’s the reason for building an full frame nex? i though they built the nex system for portability making an FF will be bigger and knoks out the portability out of the window
poke
10 months ago |I think the end game is a mirror-less FF camera. The Nex is mirror less, thus the connection.
David DeBar
10 months ago |I want it! However with 36MP and the resulting file sizes, I fear a hidden expense will be the need to buy a new, faster computer!
Sahaja
10 months ago |Sony probably have seen just how many enthusiasts buy NEX cameras to use with adapters and various types of lenses and decided to make a camera aimed straight at that market – even more adaptable and full frame. If they include IBIS as well, that would make it even more useful.
Matt 59
10 months ago |I got the information that the E-Mount ZEISS 1,8/24 is a full frame construction shortly after it came out. Source is a German photo engineer who is very close to people at Carl Zeiss Oberkochen. Now this information finally makes sense
ShowMeYourPixels
10 months ago |Two things in short
1. I’m unsure about the chances of Sony competing with Leica when it comes to these types of cameras
2. Are there no more rumors on the FF DSLTs? I need announcement dates or further details such as if it will have a chance of competing against other named brands.
Lollus
10 months ago |It is fun to see all the silking, such as “the flange distance is too short” or “I don’t need FF” or “Andrea is biased”, in the face of what could be a true landmark innovation. The less nerds know, the more they talk, everyone knows that but I did not expect such a crazy amount of silking. This is mad.
David DeBar
10 months ago |I have no idea what “silking” means but, I have been waiting for a camera like this for over a decade, way before Sony got into the SLR market. I can remember when there were rumors that Konica was going to make such a camera! It was called a modular camera back then. Later Minolta was bought out by Konica. Then Sony stepped in and bought the Konica/Minolta line and came out with the A100. Good ideas can can a long time to come to fruition. I was bewildered by all the learned people who claimed it could not and would not be done. I probably will never buy an E mount lens. I have a big shelf full of full frame Alpha lenses and a drawer full of old wonderful Konica glass that will be used once more.
Lollus
10 months ago |Same here. Silking means moaning. The “learned” people are mostly… well never mind:)
xianshen
6 months ago |I think third party may come up with native E mount FF lens.