Surprise: Samsung may come out with a FF mirrorless before Sony!
back in December I told you that Sony changed the product roadmap to focus their efforts on the development of a new Full Frame NEX-7 alike camera. To be the first to make a “cheaper Leica M” camera would have been a huge advantage for Sony. But it looks like Samsung is going to ruin the party and they may introduce the new NX-R Full Frame mirrorless in March (Source: MirrorlessRumors). After all this may be a good news for us. Sony may have to aggressively price the camera to compete against the Samsung and maybe even add some extra killer feature. Again, that’s just my dream but my imaginary NEX-FF should have the new 3 layer sensor 
Reminder: This is what we know for now about the NEX-FF:
1) These last two weeks I contacted all my best sources and they now all(!) confirmed that the next Sony Full Frame camera will not be a new SLT camera. It will be a Full Frame mirrorless camera!
2) Plan of a FF SLT release in 2013 have been dropped to fully focus the development resources on that FF mirrorless camera. Sony’s main priority is to create a real High End camera. A camera that can have all the functions and capabilities of a DSLR (that means for example fast AF). Sony sees that camera as the one that should bring back some significant interests on Sony FF system.
3) The camera is still in the final stage of development. We can expect the release of the cameras by end 2013 at earliest but early 2014 sounds more likely for now.
4) The camera has some key tech not seen on any Sony camera yet. I am still working on this rumor to get some detailed info. So stay tuned!
5) The camera is a bit bigger than the current Sony NEX-7 and not that much different in terms of the design.
6) The camera has a native E-mount and both E-mount and A-mount lenses will be fully supported.
7) One of the trusted sources said that Sony is right now testing two different prototypes. One features a 24 megapixel and the other camera features a new 30-32 Megapixel sensor.
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john
5 months ago |hope they stick with 24mp
Don Cox
5 months ago |24Mp would be enough if it is multilayer. If it is a Bayer, it should have the same resolution as the Nikon D800E. This is now standard for high end cameras.
maggy
5 months ago |16-18 Mpix would be enough.
Tom S
5 months ago |I like a bit more for cropping but I agree, it is a tough decision vs lower noise.
If they are able to place the pixels closer (and have less “dead” space in between), I would think higher resolution would not come at much cost in terms of iso noise, since the remaining loss could perhaps be interpolated to a large degree from larger number of pixels.
Take My Money Sony!
5 months ago |Sony offers more than one APS-C NEX camera. Sony should do the same with FullFrame. The 24MP FullFrame sensor can go into an NEX-5 type camera with no viewfinder, than the 32MP FullFrame sensor should go into an NEX-7 type, top tier camera.
Offer more than one FullFrame Mirrorless SONY!!!
Take My Money Sony!
5 months ago |typo on than, it should be then.
I’m not too worried about Samsung. The current Samsung NX mount does not support Leica M mount (bayonet or M39). I don’t see Samsung starting a new mount for a FullFrame mirrorless NX.
Folksy
5 months ago |You must understand, Samsung is NOT here to make Leica money or to make you happy using your old manual focus lenses. Samsung is in it to make money,money from ppl who will buy cameras and lenses, not folks who buy AF body for old manul focus lenses whcih i may add dont perform any better than the manufactureres primes. These AF lenses are made to match the sensors. Samsung doesnt make money when you stick old lenses you have on their Af cameras. If you were in business with that philosphy tomake other companies money, you’d be out of business faster than you can say leica.
John Maverick
5 months ago |Canon and Nikon make money from the sales of their lenses. But introducing a new mount and making it successful is very hard – because of the need to create lenses which suck upfront investment. Supporting M anfd SLR lenses well is a way to help obtain market support and lower costs until the system becomes profitable. It’s not a complete strategy, but it does help. And it explains why NEX was able to grow faster than other mirrorless cameras.
Ren Kockwell
5 months ago |and besides old geezers and leica wnnabes you hardly see anyone toting a leica around their necks. Its no good to support a lens sytem that only the ultra rich vain have and 99 percent of folks dont have. If the the enitre world used m lenses, that be one thing, but the reality is that is is the exact opposite of that. Its like auto comapies making cars that can take a rolls royces transmission…there is no point at all.
Spuds
5 months ago |I have to disagree. I think a company could make a nice business out of making only camera bodies and never making lenses. Just create them with the ability to use any existing lens a buyer might want to use. It might be difficult to get it to work with every electronic bell and whistle, but there is no reason a company couldn’t make money going that route. And if you were an upstart in the business it would be a lot easier to get a base of users if you put out a camera that used a Nikon or Canon mount so that you could poach current Nikon and Canon users than to try and develop your own system where every new user would have to shell out thousands on replacing lenses they already own.
Ren Kockwell
5 months ago |Sure, sounds good, just make bodies for cheapskates to use their manu focus lenses on, what a great business idea. Samsung can make the bodies while cheapskate leica m lens owners can use their lenses to tak epics of rocks, sounds like a plan thats going to make millions.
Sahaja
5 months ago |The NX mount can use adapters for SLR lenses though. A lot more people have these than M-mount lenses.
Also, because of their design, wide-angle SLR lenses – especially ultra wide – tend to work better on digital sensors than lenses that were designed for rangefinder cameras.
Mr M
5 months ago |So can the NEX . Wheres the advantage then ?
Sahaja
5 months ago |I’m not saying that there is an advantage, just saying that the capability to use M-mount lenses with an adapter isn’t a feature that is important to most users since they don’t own M-mount lenses.
Many more people own DSLR and SLR lenses – and if these can be adapted, it will satisfy the needs of those people.
My other point was that, because of their retro-focal design, wide angle SLR lenses tend to work better on digital sensors than wide angle lenses designed for rangefinder cameras. Why do you think the 24mm E-mount CZ lens, which only covers APS-C, is so huge compared to the Zeiss M-mount designs which cover full frame?
The real Mitchel
5 months ago |Sony has a HUGE problem with their nex series. They made the body so thin that they have a hard tiem amking lenses for it, esp decent lenses. And to put a FF sensor in the nex bodies would result in more crappy lenses. If they change mounts again, it would prove once again how much Sony has no foresight nor loyalty to its consumers. Samsung at least made their bodies thicker, allowing imo for FF compatibility without losing lens production quality.Samsung has a FF lens though iam not sure, in their 85mm. Its a fantastic lens by many accounts and it just proves to me that sony like minolta have absolutely NO direction. They, like minolta can not think of what will happen in 5 years time let alone 2 years.Sony a, nex, rx1 and now FF nex? all this is saying to consumers is.. if you buy sony, its a crapshoot, one year it here, and the next year your system is down the drain, buy a new one cause we said so. Now you know why Canon and Nikon are reluctant to piss off their users…its only common business sesne. No wonder why Sonys been losing money the last few years.
tesilab
5 months ago |“They made the body so thin that they have a hard tiem amking lenses for it, esp decent lenses.”
This statement makes no sense. Nothing prevents a lens design from having a little more air in the back to increase the registration distance.
Ramin
5 months ago |The only drawback I can think of with a too thin design (or too small diameter lens circle) is having enough space for in-body sensor stabilization. I think this is a point where Sony lost to Olympus by not including this very useful feature in Nex camera most likely because of not having enough space inside the body. So Olympus primes can all enjoy stabilization while Sony has to make every lens stabilized. Too bad, the 16mm is not one.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Yea, right, and then see 100 000 people protesting because lens is too large and it doesn’t balance at all with tiny body.
The Real Mitchell
5 months ago |Really? is that why almost all of Sonys e prime lenses are as long as a short tele zoom? i dont know what era youre from, but in my day, primes from 85mm down werent as long as 105 mm lenses. im, sorry, maybe i made a mistake by noticing the OBVIOUS. Sony e lemnses are well known to be shat, and their 16mm prime is a horsecrap of a lens compared to the Samsung 16mm. not to mention that samsung has a pancake 20, 30, and soon to be a smallish 45mm 2d and 3d lens. Sony couldnt even make their 50mm shoter than their kit zoom. If having a too short regitry isnt bad, than why dont the desingers just put the sensor right next tot he lens element? Have you ever seen that before? I certainly havent…or am i being too obvious again?
Don Cox
5 months ago |The thinner the body, the easier it is to design lenses for it, as you have more space to play with.
I don’t know why you should think it would be more difficult.
Sahaja
5 months ago |Correct. If you have a thin body (short flange focal distance) is easy to move the rear element away from the sensor if you need to. However, if you have a thicker body (longer flange focal distance) it is difficult to have the rear element close to the sensor – which may be desirable.
Look at the rear element of the lens on the RX1 – it almost touches the sensor. If you want to have a lens design like that on a interchangeable body a thin body (short flange focal distance) is useful. Otherwise you’d have to have a rear element that sticks out behind the mounting ring and protrudes into the camera. Something like that could get damaged easily.
EnPassant
5 months ago |Not correct!
The only explanaiton I can find for your reasoning is that you are thinking that digital cameras must be constructed just as analog film cameras having the film close to the rear side of the camera.
A thicker body doesn’t need to have a longer Flange Focal Distance (FFD) than a thinner body! Just loock at Fujifilm X-Pro1 with a thicker body having 17.7 mm FFD compared to Sony NEX with 18 mm! Fujifilm simply put their sensor more in the middle of the camera!
Actually the lenses most resembling the RX1 lens are the Fujifilm XF lenses. They also have a very wide rear element (within a protective barrel!) to reduce the angle of light reaching the sensor at the sides and in the corners, as it can cause problems with bad sharpness and false colors.
Sony and Fujifilm both decided for this lens construction to achive the best sharpness as well as compact as possible lenses. That the X-trans sensor seem to demand such lens construction is also why I personally am doubtful about the use of Leica M lenses on Fujifilm X-cameras compared to Sony NEX-6/5N/R.
EnPassant
5 months ago |Smaller body gives more space to play with sounds very logical… NOT!
jake
5 months ago |well, you are all right and making great points, I entirely agree, Sony will go bankrupt very soon.
John Maverick
5 months ago |Except that SONY’s imaging division is wildly profitable! And they’ve been able to introduce cameras that Canikon cannot match and for which there are no substitutes – RX100, NEX, RX1 etc.
Sahaja
5 months ago |“Wildly profitable” – figures please.
John Maverick
5 months ago |You can search this site for their most recent financial report. Sony imaging division is profitable. It’s why they just bought a great chunk of Olympus and sunk a 900 million invesment into a new CMOS fab plant.
gisolury
5 months ago |At least Sony sales much better on mirrorless line than Samsung
David Thomas
5 months ago |Stick with Sony Nex the best Mirrorless system followed by Panasonic Micro 4/3. I’ve had brief try of the Samsung system – lens not patch on Sony E-Mount lens, focus system of Nx1000 poor limitation compared to Nx and the time it took to write information was poor (3 second per shot). Thought I was using my Canon 300d again.
On the pluses of Samsung, free 7″inch tablet, GPS tagging and Wi-Fi transfer as standard.
Folksy
5 months ago |The samsung lenses are better than sony nex lenses..thats a well known fact.Samsungs new nx300 is going in the right direction and their nx20 was very good aside write times and price. you mentioned some samsung points. but dont forget to mention sonys failings as well. like, it took somny many cameras before putting on a mode dial. they put 2 on the nex 7 and then changed it again on the 6. Constant evoltuion is not one of sonys repetoire. At least Samsung has provided a mode dial and still does on all their nx cameras from day one. I tried the sony nex, i had to do so much menu diving i needed a bathing suit. Samsung is catching up in the body department and will imo soon equal them. the quation is…when is sony nex lenses going to catch up to samsung nx lens? that still hasnt happend yet.
Mr M
5 months ago |You sure ? Have you handled the new NEX lenses ? 35mm 1.8 , 50mm 1.8 , 10-18 F4 , 24mm 1.8 ? Sigma 30mm F2.8 ?
Or you are till in the NEX museum with the 16mn 2.8 , 18-55mm ?
If you are not aware, the Zeiss 12mm F2.8, 32mm F1.8 and 50mm f2.8 marco are coming this year.
jake
5 months ago |So? why do you Sony fanboys automatically pressume if anything says Zeiss it is great?
Zeiss is nothing special , only fools like Sony fanboys buy Zeiss at ridiculously high asked price.
I had many so-called Zeiss but none of these really shocked me.
In fact , most of times Zeiss primes are less sharp than Samyong , Sigma ,etc.
And all NEX lenses are crappy and this is the reason why I now shoot 4 mirrorless systems not only NEX any more.
Wake up Sony fanboys before your ship sink into hell of bankrupcy.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |“Zeiss is nothing special” – Only beats crap out of most lenses. I suppose Leica for you is nothing special as well? And not worth even half of the money they ask?
Eh…. pathetic.
Mr M
5 months ago |shoot 4 mirrorless system ? There goes your credibility. thanks
xxxx
5 months ago |I like the Samsung’s look and ergonomically. But overall, I prefer Sony NEX. I don’t own any, mind you. But if Samsung releases FF mirrorless cheap enough, I don’t know.. I’m open to any brand. I know Sony FF Nex is coming, but the price is most probably out of my reach.
jake
5 months ago |you dont have to decide buying into which mirrorless system very soon, they are all crappy and there are no perfect or almost perfect mirrorless system there. so, I think it is very wise of you not getting any actual camera but still evaluating which one will actually win in this game.
I have my gut feeling telling me it would be Samsung or Fuji. Sony , again would be a loser like they are in any game they’ve played these day.
Ben
5 months ago |What is the best mirrorless system for you? and Why?
Joe
5 months ago |for it to be a success they need minimum of 3 primes: 35mm, 50mm, 85mm (or 28mm, 40mm, 90mm). and one medium zoom
John Maverick
5 months ago |NEX was able to be successful with just two lenses – the 18-55 and 16/2.8. It rapidly attracted support from Sigma, Zeiss, Samyang and Tamron who all produced new lenses. These requests for a complete lineup at launch are what frighten SONY, and why they haven’t released the camera yet!
andrew
5 months ago |Hate to be pedantic but the Leica M series are rangefinders. The Sony and Samsung can make something that looks like a Leica, but it’ll be a very different animal…
admin
5 months ago |Yep of course. But it remains a mirrorless camera!
Vivek
5 months ago |It is not a true mirrorless camera but is RF crippled. You can mount a host of lenses (via adapters)but all will be bat blind as there is no RF coupling prong. Limited only to RF crippled (coupled) lenses and only to ~0.7meter close distance. Forget about macro or teles!
Don Cox
5 months ago |Rangefinder focussing was good in its day, but is totally obsolete for digital mirrorless cameras. Peaking works much better.
A rangefinder system requires precision calibration, whereas focussing on the LCD is automatically accurate as it reads from the image sensor itself. No calibration is needed and the camera costs less.
A Leica is not even really mirrorless, as there are mirrors in the rangefinder.
Ramin
5 months ago |Are you serious? What mirrors are in a rangefinder. A SLR has a major mirror reflecting the light up towards the viewfinder. A mirrorless camera is called so precisely because it doesn’t have this specific mirror not because it has no mirror at all.
John Maverick
5 months ago |@Ramin Traditionally there’s a semi-transparent mirror behind the frameline illumination window. Certainly the main point about mirrorless is to distinguish the approach from the slr mechanism – but you hear this rangefinder/mirrorless distinction made often as well.
John Maverick
5 months ago |My M helicoid extender works great for macro with M lenses.
The real Mitchel
5 months ago |The leica rangefinder is at the end of a very long and tired line. It is in a market no one wants, a 7-10 thousand dollar digital rangefinder market. go and ask how many hundreds of millions Leica is NOT making from their m series. Nikon and canon stopped making rangefinders about half a century ago. It’s time to move on but leica has nothing but the rangefinder trick. Only old geezers of yesteryear and young wannbes are into that rangefinder stuff. If everyone made digital FF rangefinders there would be one percent of one percent of the population that can take pics. It’s easy to make lenses when you dont have to worry about Af tech and affordability to entry, mid and pro consumers. It’s easy to sit there and make manual focus lenses for the ultra flithy rich. Leica spends millions to make unaffordable lenses, whereas other makers spend hundreds of millions to make affordable cameras for the masses. Let’s stop believing in myths and worship common sense, shall we?
John Maverick
5 months ago |All of which means there are a lot of extremely high quality Leica lenses out there waiting to find a home and rangefinder shooters trying to find a solution without breaking the bank!
What could be better than to pair them with a mirrorless fullframe camera that can just do them justice?
It’s a ready made market for SONY, the same market that supported NEX when they had just the 18-55 and 16mm lenses.
davy793
5 months ago |If DXO low light performance is 2500+ and accepts A Mount lenses I’ll buy one.
Carl
5 months ago |Competition = lower prices. I’m quite happy to have Samsung along for the ride. Fuji are welcome to come too.
spaceman
5 months ago |I don’t think Fuji’s X mount can house a FF sensor. According to this site:
http://photorumors.com/2012/09/21/fuji-now-claims-their-xf-lenses-cannot-cover-a-35mm-sensor-sony-and-panasonic-full-frame-cameras-are-possible/
…they wont be able to fit one unlike the e-mount, which of course already has been realized in the VG900.
…but yes by all means, let Samsung join the FF party especially if they can make a good product and actually help press the prices.
Mike
5 months ago |There isn’t really a reason why it can only be FF or APS-C.
If it can’t cover FF, it may be able to cover APS-H or any other size larger than APS-C. Bigger is better (for certain properties), not only when it is FF.
John Maverick
5 months ago |They’re talking about the existing lenses, not the X mount in that article.
Vivek
5 months ago |I would buy the Samsung FF camera (like I did the NX10 which showed up way ahead of the NEX- though it lasted only 1 month) if it has a shorter camera registry than the NX mount and the buffer/responsiveness is better. The OLED, camera interface, etc from Samsung are superb as well as the build quality and the free tablet, etc they supply with their current NX’. I can always change my mind if Sony come up with something better at a competitive price. I will not pay a $1000 EU premium for any of their products.
Mr M
5 months ago |You are basically assuming the very best Samsung does in other devices will be reflective of what this camera can be.
Samsung likes to talk big and they loves profit. As long theres any space for money , they will nose dive and dump millions to explore that market. For many , that will be good news.
I will keep my fingers crossed to see how compact and small their fullframe mirrorless will be. I have seen their NX series and their galaxy camera. Very impressive in terms of size indeed.
calxn
5 months ago |Meh, their sensors are meh. I will wait on Sony’s FF NEX. Sony’s sensor should be good enough to be at least 2-3 generations ahead of Samsung’s. If even Canon cannot keep up with Sony’s sensor, how can Samsung?
Sky_walker
5 months ago |I love how most often brought argument for buying NX camera is a free tablet.
My friend got one of these – after 2 months he got shattered screen and fights for 3 months already with their service to get it fixed on a warranty.
Believe me or not: Samsung tablets are not worth a quid!
jk2l
5 months ago |Hi, for your “This is what we know for now about the NEX-FF” can you label SR 1-5? those are not confirm by official right?
Jerry_R
5 months ago |MANUAL FOCUSING request for FF NEX
If someone from Sony is reading – pls allow us to see whole frame and small part enlarged IN PARALLEL.
NOT: whole frame OR enlargement.
BOTH at the same time.
Touch LCD is a plus, as thanks to this we can immediately show which part to enlarge.
Vladimir
5 months ago |End for SONY and FUJI!!!
Sky_walker
5 months ago |You’ve got to be kidding me. You read the company in title? “samsung” ? Neither Sony nor Fuji are in danger. No worries.
Frank
5 months ago |2013 sounds like the end of A-mount. If they crack fast AF for mirror-less then expect their APS-C SLT range to go mirror-less E-mount too.
Mike
5 months ago |2013 will see the end of the A-mount like 2012 saw the end of the world.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Yea. I love how people think that only advantage of A mount is autofocus.
andrew
5 months ago |That’s a complete non-sequitur. Of course they can mirrorless alpha bodies – Nex and Alpha are aimed at different markets, with different demands.
Frank
5 months ago |Guys, with fast AF and mirrorless there is little point Sony continuing with A-mount when they can make an adapter and move everything to their new darling, the E-mount.
2013 is the last year you will be seeing Sony release A-mount lenses. The E-mount steamroller is inevitable.
jake
5 months ago |not only A mount but I think entire Sony go bankrupt very soon , they are keep losing lots of money every munite.
Neo NiGHTS ®
5 months ago |And about that hybrid mount? Is that ever coming?
oskar
5 months ago |hybrid would be e-mount with well integrated adapter
xxxx
5 months ago |I’m afraid that’s the case.. hehehe
Olaf
5 months ago |I wonder what the pricing will be. If I recall correctly, when the A77 and the Nex7 were announced the price was almost identical. I can imagine and hope that it will be the same for the A99 and the Nex FF.
If Sony introduces a proper E-mount 24-70, I would really consider saving up and going from A77 to Nex FF. The A77 is much too big for travel.
Please also add socket for a cable remote. As an alternative a built in intervalometer and propper bracketing function.
Amir Kh
5 months ago |Tha’t's a “weak” rumor, to say the least. An anonymous source says that NX-R will be “full-frame” and you believe it?
I will put my money that NX-R is an Android based APSC phone.
pjpo
5 months ago |The NX-R was shown to a focus group a year or so ago as a retro (R) designed camera like the OM-D. The question had been whether the public would perceive Samsung as a quality manufacturer to sell this type of camera. Well, a FF sexy camera could well be the halo product they need to gain some respect. Speeding write times can’t be that hard of a fix.
APS-C smartphone you say? This is exactly what I’m hoping for, but it won’t be this camera. Samsung and Sony are both primed to do this as they both make phones and cameras. For Sony, I could see a smarter step (and ideal size) as an RX100 with phone. I would sacrifice the interchangeable lens and larger sensor to gain the slim profile and even mount on a dorky belt holster.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Only thing is that NX-R presented back then didn’t have FF sensor, and NX-system currently doesn’t support FF at all.
So… I wouldn’t jump into conclusions straight away.
Lucas
5 months ago |Don’t forget that RX1 is already a mirrorless FF, smaller than a Leica M and more advanced features! Although it’s a fixed lens… but what a lens!!
Your title should be: “Surprise: Samsung may come out with a Interchangeable Lens FF mirrorless before Sony!”, or “Surprise: Samsung may come out with a Fixed Zoom Lens FF mirrorless before Sony!”…
Vivek
5 months ago |The smallest, priciest FF P&S camera, yes.
Lucas
5 months ago |And by far the best!…
Vivek
5 months ago |Oh, sure!
) Since there isn’t another one in that category. Matchless, yes.
FF mirrorless, no. Volume seller, no. Versatile, no. Reasonably priced, no.
……..
Lucas
5 months ago |Hehe… every latest digital camera ( even DSLR’s and SLT’s )can be a P&S, it’s just to set the mode dial to “Auto”! So, what’s your point? I see you know very little, if anything, about the RX1, other than that it’s a Sony. I guess you’re just another Sony hater. Anyway, you’re entitled to any opinion you want, just don’t expect everybody to agree with it.
This silly discussion isn’t taking us anywhere, I rest my case.
Neo NiGHTS ®
5 months ago |You meant “compact”, not “point and shoot”.
Mr M
5 months ago |I think you live in a world where everyone owns a ferrari. Else, I couldnt imagine why u expect RX1 to be tops in volume of sales.
John Maverick
5 months ago |Being a market leader, allows you to charge a premium! Who would have guessed
Vivek
5 months ago |Good one!:) Having an unique product does make them *the* market leader! LOL!
xxxx
5 months ago |Well, yes.. leader in market of one… lol
jake
5 months ago |only fools buy the RX1 , it is a cheap build “Point and Shoot”, it has only one boring 35mm FOV.
no rational people with brain buy this crap.
Vladimir
5 months ago |Samsung knows what photographers want, How to remove competitors.
Lucas
5 months ago |I’d rather a Sony IL FF mirrorless to be an “A” mount camera. Plenty of lenses already ( either Sony, Minolta or third party ). But that’s only me, I guess!
CTPhotographX.com
5 months ago |Yes please… mirrorless A-Mount could be made same size as original Maxxum 9000/7000 bodies, which are barely larger than NEX-7, but have much better grip and balance. No lens adapters please. No more adapters please.
Simoquasimo
5 months ago |Mirrorless A-mount would be awesome. I’m afraid that full frame nex will be awful ergonomically. I can’t see myself putting long lens on it and shoot sports with it. Well will see what happens.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Oh, definitely. FF, same classical form-factor, huge viewfinder, might be a true best-seller with current trend for “classical” cameras.
Lucas
5 months ago |Additionally to what already said, IMHO the development would be easier, faster and less expensive.
Kiril
5 months ago |Why crippled A mount? E mount works with A mount lenses very well. The reverse is not true. E mount works with EF, F, K, PL, M, L39 and many other mounts very well, A does not.
E mount is full electronic future. A mount is mostly mechanic past with lots of retrofits.
I hope Sony gets things right and both A and E mount lenses work well.
The sole thing they MUST not miss this time round is SuperSteadyShot Inside (stabilized sensor, IBIS, AS).
This is the only shortfall of the current NEX camera line up for using A mount lenses. In all other respects NEX-7 with EA-2 can beat any A mount camera up to and including A65.
CTPhotographX.com
5 months ago |Because adapters suck in all ways from balance, reliability, ergonomics, aesthetics. Especially when mounted to super small cameras. You’ll never get an adapted lens to have the feeling of a top shelf pro quality camera. I hate shooting with creaky cameras.
And I’m not wanting Sony photography to devolve any more than it actually has. Adapting FF lens to a mount originally designed as APS-C is ill conceived, hack’n'stack, wrong thinking logic. Nothing professional will ever manifest from such a cluster fuck. It’s like asking photographers to lessen the refinement for every lens they mount. It will never fit as securely and robustly as a native solution. I don’t want creaky toys in my hands.
John Maverick
5 months ago |> Adapting FF lens to a mount originally designed as APS-C is ill conceived, hack’n’stack, wrong thinking logic.
There’s no indication the E-mount was solely intended for APS-C at all. Only the current lenses.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Look at VG900, see the edges of sensor, and tell me again if it wasn’t designed for APS-C with FF force-pushed there just because they could.
John Maverick
5 months ago |@Sky_walker Which has nothing to do with the mount and everything to do with the sensor employed. Use CMOSIS’s new Leica fullframe sensor and it would have been a different story. That said, it was disappointing to see SONY put the emphasis on controlling video moire, rather than making a great system camera.
xxxx
5 months ago |Sony version of K-01?? Errmm… no, thanks. Please. lol
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Read again. It’d be nothing like K-01. More like: NEX-FF on steroids.
jake
5 months ago |why do you guys still talk about Minolta that literally dumped the A mount ?
Amit Zinman
5 months ago |Yes, Samsung is the come-from-behind newcomer, but their cameras are still basically toys. That said, I really like what they are doing and wish Sony would have more advanced Internet connectivity. A lot of my customers want high end images but also some pictures posted online soon after they are taken. Sure, I can do that with a laptop, but I’d rather carry more photography related equipment than a hefty computer. All I need is the ability to pick a photo, do basic RAW manipulations (blacks, vignetting and brightness, maybe some cropping) and then resize and deliver photos using e-mail, a file delivery services or Facebook. Surely that can fit into a DSLR OS.
Ario
5 months ago |Come on Son… you can do it Son…
Hans
5 months ago |Samsung could sell what they want, I would never buy it…
Mars Observer
5 months ago |I don’t think Samsung has had the success in the camera market that they’ve been hoping for.
However, if they can deliver a FF mirrorless in March!!, well ahead of the competition, it may just be the ‘edge’ they’ve been looking for.
Although Sony is likely to develop the better system (for pros and cinematographers), I expect many enthusiasts(which make up the majority of the market) are very anxious for a FF mirrorless and won’t want to wait… and are likely to jump at the Samsung with its early release.
I wonder if this will urge Sony to ‘fast-track’ their development…
Come on Sony – the race is on – give the design/development team anything and everything they need to work as quick as possible!
Lucas
5 months ago |Please, I suggest we start saying “IL FF mirrorless” instead of “FF mirrorless” for the sake of clarity. As said before, Sony already has the RX1 as an “FF mirrorless”.
Thanks.
Vivek
5 months ago |Regardless of how fascinating you may find the Rx1 to be, no one is going to do that. The Rx1 remains a one trick pony and may remain so for a long time.
It could even become a rare collectible camera!
john
5 months ago |So it should hold it’s value better than anything from CaNikon then.
Could be a great investment.
Vivek
5 months ago |Absolutely! If i have €3100 to invest that is what I would do!
Mr M
5 months ago |Poor chap .. come to other parts of the world , you will get the rx1 at much lesser than EURO 3100
jake
5 months ago |no , no way, it is already discounted by 23 percent here.
it is no longer selling well and seldom moves out of any retailer’s.
Mr M
5 months ago |The RX1 is merely a chap with a non-interchangeable dick. Why are you so bothered that it has that one thing as long it does the job it suppose to do well ? Problem ?
Sahaja
5 months ago |Lucas
You can’t control English usage. In the photography world “mirrorless camera” has already come to be the commonly used term for “mirrorless interchangeable lens camera” (MILC).
Acronyms like MILC or EVIL never really caught on. I expect “mirrorless” will stick – so you’d better get used to it.
CTPhotographX.com
5 months ago |Consider calling the R what it is… an FL (fixed lens).., rather than changing the designation for SLR/DSLR/SLT style.
Mars Observer
5 months ago |I think ‘FF mirrorless’ implies “full frame mirrorless digital interchangeable lens camera produced for the average enthusiast or prosumer market, thereby excluding the RX1, film rangefinders, Leica, and custom made cameras used by the military, NASA, etc. Therefore, I think we should refer to it as:
FF Digital MILC PFTAEOPM, TET RX1FRL&C
JonasM
5 months ago |Sorry admin but the RX1 is a FF mirrorless…
Sahaja
5 months ago |The RX1 may technically be a mirrorless camera – but so is every point and shoot.
The RX1 is not a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera (MILC) – which is what people normally mean by “mirrorless camera” these days.
Sahaja
5 months ago |This is good news. It will inspire Sony, Fuji, and others to bring their own full frame mirrorless cameras to the market sooner.
Certainly this is going to make Sony sit up and notice. They know all about having Samsung as a competitor in other fields.
Don Cox
5 months ago |I hope it doesn’t make Sony rush the camera onto the market. It would be better to take their time, test it really thoroughly with experienced photographers, and get everything right.
Then we could avoid major faults like not being able to use the remote in the modes that most need it.
Vivek
5 months ago |I hope Sony acts on the FF NEX quickly and bring out a quality camera.
Sahaja
5 months ago |True – But perhaps it will make Sony put more resources into development of a full-frame NEX. Anyway, if the rumors are true, they already have a couple of different prototypes being tested. So they must be quite far along in development and might be able to release a camera by September – provided they have a few lenses ready too.
However I’m a bit wary about being an “early adopter” these days – so many cameras are being released that have glitches or problems in a significant number of the early production run. On an expensive purchase like a full-frame mirrorless I’d rather wait and make sure any problems are discovered and fixed before buying. (Mind you, it is not just cameras – look at the current mess with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner – the early-adopter airlines are suffering.)
Marek
5 months ago |More competition in FF format is welcome. I hope price of a consumer FF cam drops below $1200 (mirroless or SLR). Price difference of FF sensors over APS-C does not make for huge price difference of cameras, A99 vs. A77 for example. A99 could have been a cash cow for SONY. But it does not sell exceptionally well. It is about time for a cheap FF. I’m not locked in a FF system yet. So whoever gives me a cheap FF is a winner for me.
Vladimir
5 months ago |I need a camera:
- Design FUJI x E-1
- No AF( Leica), filter AA flash.
- Home – High image quality.
Milt
5 months ago |God bless Samsung. Would love to see them get into this market and push the others to lower prices. Competition is good for everyone.
doug
5 months ago |I congratulate Samsung for pushing the envelope and creating competition in the marketplace. However, I will not be buying one.
Poki
5 months ago |I still don’t get the point. They won’t make a new lens system (like they indicated in quite a few interviews lately), so the only option would be to adapt A-Mount lenses. But why not simply build a great optical reduer adapter with PDAF? Could be pricy as hell and still sell well – and it would make perfect sense for both their ecosystems.
John Maverick
5 months ago |The advantage of a fullframe sensor over a focal length reducer is the superior image quality, because the optical path is not compromised.
Atlasman
5 months ago |Samsung usually take 12-18 months to deliver after they announce a product——like they did with their NX system. I’ll be surprised if they can deliver a full frame mirrorless this year.
If the Metabones reducer (I pre-ordered mine) delivers on image quality, it will seriously diminish the lure of FF. The only remaining advantage will be slightly better ISO performance.
xxxx
5 months ago |Indeed. Metabone just created disturbance in demand for FF. FF is always better, but many feel APS-C is good enough, even without SpeedBooster. Now it just gets even better.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |Use it on a few lenses before judging.
It’s not worth it and definitely won’t change anything in regards of FF.
dan
5 months ago |someone need to bring out a FF mirrorless, it’s long overdue.
Tom S
5 months ago |Is Sony likely/able tocome out with a mirrorless alpha mount version? I have invested a lot in lenses, and if they would work (without phase focusing? flange distance?), Id prefer this approach. It would give additional light-gathering capabilities which I like about the Nex, and maybe retain image stabilization in camera, which I love in the Alpha.
If not, how would this Nex work with the sony adapters to alpha? Would the lenses work ok? Any way to get alpha lenses to
autofocus without the LA-EA2 adapter (at good speed)? If so, the price is right and it has clean HDMI, I could go for this as well.
Gabriel
5 months ago |The Sony NEX-VG900E use a FF sensor, have E-Mount, can take photo, have no mirror. So technicaly, it’s a FF mirroless camera
There simply no FF E-Mount lenses yet for this beast.
Sky_walker
5 months ago |I tend to agree
John Maverick
5 months ago |Look at the excitment around this subject.
Companies are producing fullframe AF adaptors for Contax G lenses.
There are focal lendth reducers coming out to adapt fullframe lenses.
The RX1 is selling as well or better than the A99.
It’s obvious there’s a market for fullframe mirrorless cameras. They just have to make sure the corner performance is good – not like the NEX VG900!.
Kiril
5 months ago |Bread and butter digital cameras are and will be APS-C.
Full Frame is vanity and great blog posts by “Famous photographers” for most part. True some pros use them. However volumes of sales of full frame to APS-C is in the order of 1:100 or less.
So do I care about Samsung doing yet another silly thing? most defiantly NOT.
Sony and Fuji have strong APS-C presence and full frame bate that few people buy and make lots of fuss about will help APS-C sales. That is it.
I wait for the new NEX lenses. Much more important and real than the Full Frame Phantom game.
Tom S
5 months ago |Full Frame is not vanity – there are very tangible benefits to Full Frame (though APS-C also has benefits):
-Less noise in low light
-Higher quality wide-lenses (Sony SAL-24F20Z f2 vs Sony SEL16F28 16mm f/2.8 on Nex or perhaps a Tokina 17mm f3.5 which is dicontinued with alpha mount)
The other thing is that Sony intentionally cripples their non-FF bodies. Want clean HDMI out for Video? Your options currently are Nex VG900(FF video) or A99.
Kiril
5 months ago |Yes there are those benefits and small group of keen photographers love them. Market wise though this is lots of hype and hardly much in terms of sales. 5000 Nikon D4 cameras total for the whole world….10 million NEX cams in 2012 – you do the maths.
So I very likely will buy this Ful Frame NEX but realize there will be very few people like me. If Sony do miracle 200K all over the world
Joel Richards
5 months ago |But how many D800′s and D600′s has Nikon sold? I’m sure it is much more than 5,000! A $5k+ camera body will always be a niche product. I think the increasing sales of $2k full-frame bodies says that there is now demand there–at a certain price. A full-frame mirrorless that will work well with a wide array of glass and sells for less than $3k will sell well. I personally hope its the Sony system but we’ll see.
John Maverick
5 months ago |Fullframe has been the standard in personal and professional photography for a hundred years. Most importantly it gives access to lenses that are not available for NEX.
EnPassant
5 months ago |100 years? I thought it started with Leica I in 1925…
And in very small numbers. Well into the fifties various medium and large formats were the standards for professionals and ordinary people. 35 mm was more like toys for rich people in the beginning. Had you said 50 years I could have agreed.
The most important thing for me a is that a FF NEX would make old lenses (like Canon FD) usable at their marked focal length on a digital body. Except for single system NEX users I don’t quite see the reason to buy lenses from Nikon or Canon for use on NEX instead of on the cameras they are made for.
Horse Radish
5 months ago |Dude, give it up. Af bodies made for old mf lenses? Nest thing youll want is for record companies to make cd players that only take lp records. Even the old geezrs are using AF before they croak. i didnt know that Samsung or any other company are here to make cheapskate mf lenses owners happy and no one else whos willing to spend money on AF lenses.
Ramin
5 months ago |I think Sony should have come to this decision long ago; starting the development of an MILC instead of spending their focus and resources on RX1. Actually, I even think they should have continued with optical viewfinder until they released their mirrorless systems instead of using translucent mirror as a transitional stage. What was the point of translucent mirror if it didn’t have a positive impact on the market? Of course, I know some people are buying Sony TSLR’s but, the truth is that with the exception of a mere handful of people, nobody buys Sony exactly because of this. They buy Sony for other reasons. Tranlucent mirror proved it would not make a shift in the market in favor of Sony. However, this must have been obvious from the beginning with possessing just a little bit of intuition.
I think the problem with Sony is they don’t quite have much insight into what market may respond positively. They started their mirrorless system only after Other companies convinced them it sells so that’s not quite genuine. Hybrid AF and touchscreen are also like following ideas started by other companies. Their own ‘significantly’ genuine idea was the attempt to shift the A system completely to translucent mirror but that so far has proven pointless.
FF mirrorless is a genuine idea but again Sony were too afraid to pioneer with too much hesitation, just turning around checking what others do until they heard Samsung is dong it. Only then, were they convinced it was a good idea. In the meanwhile they release the niche RX1 checking how the market responds to a fixed lens FF which I admit is indeed a genuine idea but the problem is that it only sells to a handful of people while the rest only want to praise it for its great sensor and lens performance without having the intention to buy it.
I still believe the Sony’s department of product development needs another boss, perhaps someone like Steve Jobs.
4k
5 months ago |With all the 4k TV’s @ CES this year, they really need to push video to 4k capability in this FF camera. But I don’t think they will, they’ll continue with 1080p with a crap codec & bitrate.
Twaddler Belafonte
5 months ago |Unless you’ve got a 70″+ TV, why would 4k matter? 1080 looks brilliant enough to me.
Hans
5 months ago |And 2 Megapixel are enough to print in 40-55 inch (today standard TV size) diameter? No it’s not enough. I would rather have 8 MP…
James
5 months ago |Pleeeease NOT high MP+high noise! Keep it low MP+low noise for this application, please!
MrLee
5 months ago |This “Expensive” new nex full-frame wont sell like the cheap ‘Best Buy’ store selling nex3,5,7′s do anyway but other manufacturers producing simular camera’s will garantee Sonys failure on this one…
This is what sony gets for not producing what so many (including me) have been asking for… A 36 mp OVF A1X !
Tom S
5 months ago |Sorry, I don’t buy “many”…