The dream corner: Would you buy a NEX with B&W sensor?
Leica is having a lot of success and probably earning a lot of money on their exclusive and expensive Leica Monochrome. So le’ts think (or dream) a bit out of the box. Imagine Sony doing a NEX camera with a Black and White sensor. A sensor that allows you the maximum possible per pixel sharpness, no AA filter, bigger pixels for greater dynamic range. And that NEX would cost around 30-50% more than current NEX camera prices.
Loading ...Price and specs of the Leica Monochrome at Amazon and Bhphoto.
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tesilab
6 months ago |Absolutely I’d be interested in one. Most of my photos are intended as B&W anyway–why do I need fuzzy AA filters, and resolution/ISO sensitivity lost to a CFA array?
If a manufacturer could figure out a way to do that and include a couple of high quality internal filters, making it convertible from visible to full spectrum, for example, it would be perfect.
St.
6 months ago |Somehow the monochrome camera is “related” with that old, classic camera view – similar to rangefinders. It’s for people who like the classical, everlasting B&W photography.
So far Sony has not been determined themselves to be such company, but the opposite – innovators, bringing the new technology, new design, etc.
That’s why I think such camera would be more welcomed from Fujifilm fans, than Sony fans.
Just my opinion…
Sky_walker
6 months ago |” everlasting B&W photography. ” – and the color photography is not everlasting? It’s as everlasting as B&W. Especially in digital form.
BigName
6 months ago |I think he implied that B & W photography was supposed to die when color film was introduced, but it survives.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |Well, Cross processing was suppose to die too, but it’s still used in digital world, only means of achieving the effect changed. Lomography was suppose to die ages ago, yet they release toy-lenses for modern DSLRs.
We can go with examples like that for ages.
byazrov.com
6 months ago |sony always makes major conceptual mistakes. like in almost perfect rx1 there’s no viewfinder – wtf? someone in sony design department have some sort of unresolved mother issues.
Lucas
6 months ago |I believe that to accommodate the FF sensor the RX1′s body is too crammed and left no room for an EVF…!
Lucas
Sky_walker
6 months ago |that’s why they sell external EVF and OVF.
Vivek
6 months ago |There was still room to put a pop up flash! There was no room to put a flash sync port?! Half baked, at best. Considering the atrocious EU zone prices, down right ridiculous.
Namely
6 months ago |The pop-up flash is tiny. It doesn’t take much space. And as a street cam, there’s no need for a flash sync port. Just sayin’.
Abit77
6 months ago |I need B&W TV!
lionheart_se
6 months ago |Vladimir
6 months ago |B/W do of good color picture.
Hendrick
6 months ago |The reason why Leica is successful with products like the Monochrom is because of its rich history attached to names like Robert Capa, Henry Cartier-Bresson, George Rodger, etc. Besides that, there is also the luxury factor which alone allows the company to produce very niche products like this and still sell many units.
No one, but Zeiss (If they bring the Digital Ikon) or Contax (If Zeiss revives the brand) could do something similar because their names don’t have much of a history.
I wish Cosina would think of bringing of a new RD-1, APS-H is good enough for most uses.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |This.
And that said: I’d buy Full Frame (monochrome or not) Digital Ikon in a heartbeat (as long as it wouldn’t have insane price point, but I’d more gladly pay 3k$ for Ikon then 2,3k$ for A99 or FF NEX).
But I wouldn’t buy NEX. Bad ergonomics, bad UI, no rangefinder, E-mount, I’m not interested.
Pablo
6 months ago |B/W cameras should be cheaper. And I also don’t know why not only colorblind people buy them. The rest of us should be happy we can see colors and photograph them. Not buy crippled machines that simulate how disabled people see.
Remember, B/W photography was not an artistic intention. They just couldn’t make color photos and thatswhy they shot B/W pictures. So enjoy the colors. The poor guys from the past would for sure tell you that you’re nuts when you want to shoot B/W pictures even-though you can photograph colors!>
St.
6 months ago |I do agree with what you said, but it’s just one of the sides.
You completely miss the concept of why B&W photography exist nowadays.
I won’t start the conversation here, as it is a long one.
I’m sure you can find lots of reasons online to grab your attention about B&W.
doug
6 months ago |Some people just don’t get B&W, but one can say that about any art form. Either you get it or you don’t.
Don Cox
6 months ago |The interesting thing is that photos or drawings with tone/brightness but no colour are fully acceptable, but photos with colour but no tones (equal brightness all over) look very strange and could not be used for news etc.
E.
6 months ago |I disagree with you 100%. I don’t have time to answer so poor comment, but you need to study a little more.
LifeStoryImages.com
6 months ago |If I had the choice to ONLY shoot B&W or ONLY shoot color, it would be B&W, hands down.
I challenge you to shoot for 1 month in only B&W, pay attention to B&W forums, technique, and every day make one “finished” print or image. You will never be the same.
Shooting color RAW does give the option for B&W conversion, which I do. But a “illumination only” sensor has far superior dynamic range and sharpness over Bayer/Foveon sensors.
Denis
6 months ago |Superior sharpness over bayer? No.
Denis
6 months ago |Lol, wanted to say foveon
LifeStoryImages.com
6 months ago |Yes, superior over Foveon, practically speaking; the multi-layer photo sites cannot be made as small as a single-layer pixel.
Also consider range and sharpness as a whole; with equal dynamic range the Foveon would have larger pixels, with equal size pixels the Foveon would have less range.
Futile
6 months ago |No way, I may be a ignorant on this, but I really really don’t see the benefit. I would rather that development of sensors like the Foven type progressed further, and we move up from the 12bit data.
All Bayer sensors record detail in BW right, the color is just interpolated. Why not improve the real color sensors and you would benefit in both color and BW.
Personally, I have my NEX7/RX1 set to shot in BW mode but with RAW/JPG turned on. It just means I get the benefits of composing in BW, but the ability to use color from the RAW in post if I want to.
explorer76
6 months ago |You are right that bayer sensors record grayscale data, however the difference is that they throw away about 2/3rd of the light at every pixel due to the color filters. A B&W sensor wouldn’t need to throw away that light and thus will get better SNR and dynamic range. Second the bayer pattern has a greater need for AA filters because each color is sampled coarsely. A B&W sensor can more easily get away without AA filter.
LifeStoryImages.com
6 months ago |Exactly.
Ronnie
6 months ago |No, sorry.
Sony isn’t Leica, nor will it ever come close to it in that respect.
(Nikon shooter)
Martin Blank
6 months ago |Pardon me but that is an absolutely ridiculous idea. Current NEX models do a fine job with B&W and there are just too many excellent tools out there for B&W processing in post.
Next idea please…
doug
6 months ago |I do primarily B&W photography, so yes, I would consider it.
Jerry_R
6 months ago |Give us FF NEX with EVF and flash hot-shoe – and then we will pay more
Vladimir
6 months ago |!!!!!!
Frank
6 months ago |Or you could buy the DxO FilmPack 3.
Vivek
6 months ago |Yes, I would, in a heartbeat, even if an APS-C sensored camera comes with the Sony EU premium price tag.
stflbn
6 months ago |No way I’d pay MORE for a B&W only camera.
Gabriel
6 months ago |What is rare cost more, a B&W only camera is rare, so it cost more
Bruno
6 months ago |No.
JonasM
6 months ago |No. The NEX-7 with the high contrast BW creative filter is good enough in my world.
Torsten Bronger
6 months ago |Absolutely not. Too limiting. On the other hand, I don’t feel limited by my colour camera. Dynamic range, S/N, resolution — all larger than I need.
If I like to have B/W, I click on “convert to B/W”.
NEXfive
6 months ago |Since Sony’s forcing me especially with firmware limitations to buy a new NEX at least every two years I can get a B&W NEX simply by transforming one of my older ones, which I planned for Infrared Photography anyway…
Froo
6 months ago |You can not remove the Bayer CFA.
NEXfive
6 months ago |True, but it’s not even removed from the Leica B&W.
Vivek
6 months ago |Froo & NEXfive:
My earlier post never appeared: Here we go-
If CFA is not put on the sensor during fabrication, it will be true monochrome sensor. This is what the Leica MM has- a true monochrome sensor.
Removal of the Bayer color dyes are not trivial but is possible. I have an ongoing project with MaxMax (google to find what they do) for this very purpose. A NEX (true) monochrome camera.
aaaa
6 months ago |i will not pay more for having less.
Gabriel
6 months ago |I just dont see the need for a B&W camera to be honest when you can do it with PP and dont tell me that the differences are going to be dramatic so that you rather limit yourself to B&W instead.
Unless you are a B&W only shooter of course
Chris Geary
6 months ago |Enough already!
How much longer before we get our hands on the NEX-9 FF Mirrorless.
That will make Sony top-dog!
Chris K.
6 months ago |IN A HEARTBEAT
Anon
6 months ago |LOL…Sucker. there’s one born every minute.
Cadha13
6 months ago |That is where I am today, I have my A900 for most of my photos, but I have a Maxxum 7 loaded with some FP4+. I already “have” a B/W only camera, also I have a Maxxum 4 as my tiny shooter as well.
No dedicated B/W bodies unless they are infrared and/or UV sensitive.
Tom
6 months ago |I wish the poll had more options. If it has a removable ir-filter, I could see it being useful for me, but otherwise not.
Don Cox
6 months ago |If Sony manage to make a multilayer filter, that will give the full pixel sharpness in black-and-white as well as in colour. That is the way to go.
If I wanted to do a lot of B&W photography, I would rather have a Sigma DP camera than a Leica monochrome. (And you can buy all three models of the Sigma for less money than the Leica.)
derdide
6 months ago |I’d consider buying a B&W Nex 6, but certainly not if it’s more expensive. But to save costs, they could simplify it: no video (and no mic in, no HDMI out, no video button), no fancy JPEG modes, no WiFi… But cheaper/similar priced, I could really consider a B&W Nex 6 as a 2nd camera
Milt
6 months ago |Nope… you can do B&W in post and you have more creative options with that workflow.
Joel Benford
6 months ago |No, but I’d go for a square format.
Terrance
6 months ago |The key would be to make an ultra simple camera perhaps exactly like a Leica M with a sensor instead of film. NO EVF, no video, no extra anything. Manual and Aperture priority modes. Maybe AF but if so just single not continous.
Perhaps not even a rear LCD screen, you don’t get to see your images untill you get back home to your computer, not exactly film but a tip of the hat to film perhaps.
A truely retro camera that is a minimal interface between you and the subject. I think those who a monochrome only platform appeals to would want it that way. I would.
And last but not least it would something completely different, not just a tweak on the all singing and all dancing gizmos out there. Those of us who are artists rely on their on own CPU, aka the grey matter between our ears.
see4eye
6 months ago |Voted NO because:
Some body made it already,
take a look here: http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/01/06/the-multispectral-nex/
Vivek
6 months ago |You did not understand that blog post nor the question here. The one in the blog post is a RGB color camera with awful colors (after considerable work that voids any warranty). The one being discussed here is a true monochrome sensor/camera.
john
6 months ago |reported here:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-multispectral-sony-nex-5-for-bw-photography/
3 days ago
Mart
6 months ago |Please do not tell me that the new NEX7m is a black and white. NO!!!!!!
RA
6 months ago |B&W only camera? No way! Some people/manufacturers are still stuck in the 20th century with B&W only, film, “Leica is the best” mentality, etc. In the 21st century, RAW and B&W post-processing is pretty awesome, I don’t see any need for B&W dedicated cameras.
Eric
6 months ago |I would willing to pay a bit more for a camera with a convertable AA filter :p
Green.Lens
6 months ago |No, not now. But I do understand it’s more advanced.
Paul
6 months ago |From where is the info, that Leica is “earning a lot of money” with it? I actually cant believe anybody really buys it for the 5-10% better ISO versus a color… I think most people which bought it are people like Steve Huff because they just enjoy to test it against other cameras…
Maybe you mean Leica is earning a lot of money because it costs about 2000 bucks in production and sells for 8000… I really can’t think of any element which would make the Leica Monochrome more expensive than, lets say a RX1… The RX1 does come with a high quality 35/2 lens, the Leica without! The RX1 (far) better sensor, better video, better, controls, lighter, better diplay…
Weakling
6 months ago |Not interested. As much as I like B&W photos, I feel you have much more control over how a B&W photo will look when you have the color channels to play with.
Jeremy
6 months ago |Hell yes! ISO performance would be outstanding. I would buy it a heartbeat.
D
6 months ago |ADMIN – SLT/NEX STATUS AND TARGETS??
Current interest might be a
PROSUMER APS-C A77 Upgrade – any info is appreciated.
john
6 months ago |I can see it more as an RX model than a NEX
DtEW
6 months ago |No, as much as I would buy a monochrome Leica if I wanted to buy a Leica (I don’t). I convert a lot of my photos to B/W.
This is because as much as I’ve noticed that as much as Sony’s E-mount lenses can range from OK (most of the older zooms) to pretty good (the middle primes and the newer lenses), there’s usually one unifying trait: chromatic aberration. The Sonys aren’t as well-controlled for this, and taking the time to carefully tune them out in PP goes a long way in revealing good resolution. So I suspect a monochrome NEX will not be sharper using native E-mount lenses, and could even be worse relative to a well-PP’ed B/W conversion from color.
Mars Observer
6 months ago |Maybe my eyes just aren’t as good as they use to be but… when I look at (online) images from the Leica Monochrome I simply don’t see it. I don’t see anything better than what I could get from my D700 and converting the image to B&W using Lightroom or SilverFX. Sorry.
I assume the difference can be seen more clearly in print. But I don’t print enough B&W images to warrant buying a camera dedicated to that.
If someone can show me a B&W image taken with the Leica Monochrome that’s far and away better (when viewed normally – not when pixel peaking) than what can be achieve with a Nikon D800, please educate me!
NoName
6 months ago |Sony doesn’t have to make a native monochrome camera. All they have to do is make monochrome adapter ala LA-EA2, but instead of AF module, put in monochromatic sensor. They can even use the current SLT mirror (30-70 split). With no AA and Bayer filter, the extra light gained could be around 10-20% or more. It’s a 50-70 split(measured in current Bayer sensor efficiency, actual light distribution is still 30-70).
For those who love black and white photo(B&W photo is actually more of gray shades rather than pure black and white), they can take it straight out of the monochrome sensor. For those who prefer color, they can “combine” details from the monochrome sensor and colors from the conventional Bayer sensor.
One of the negative thing about this kind of adapter is you can only use it with A-mount lenses or any other lenses but E-mount.
explorer76
6 months ago |The main disadvantage of a B&W sensor is that you loose the fine control over B&W conversion process. When you capture a color image and convert it to B&W you can control the contribution of each color channel to the B&W conversion and use many other techniques like that to get the shades that you want. With a grayscale sensor the only way to impact the B&W conversion process would be to use filters on the lens.
Tony
6 months ago |Why don’t we vote for removal of anti-aliasing (AA) filter or using a thin Nikon 800E like AA filter!!!
The new Nikon 1 J3 and S1 cameras do not have an anti-aliasing (AA) filter
http://nikonrumors.com/#ixzz2HXDKNZXi
danei
6 months ago |A retro style camera with non-bayer sensor and super iso performance?
It’s already there: fuji x-pro/xe1.
Just wake up, Leica could do that because it’s Leica. Their lens hoods are sold as expensive as other companies’ lenses.
A b&w nex still with ir/uv filter is ultimately ridiculous.
Sky_walker
6 months ago |X pro is nothing alike Leica monochrome. Not even close in B&W performance.
danei
6 months ago |Yep, Leica’s lens hoods are even much better than other cheap ones.
Even M9′s bowling ball grains show superior iso performance over other cameras.
Is it very hard to check sample images before commenting?
junho
5 months ago |Of course it’s not a market share. But It is the chance to over come to leica.