The Sony APS sensor does captures 30p/25p progressive that is saved in interlaced container (60i/50i).
As I told you today I don’t care about 24p (it’s a consumer camera!) and for those of you that want to have 30p/25p don’t worry, “the Sony APS sensor captures in progressive, but the camera is saving the footage into an interlaced container with a doubled framerate. Every NLE can deal with it in post without doing anything special. You just have to tell it that the interlaced footage is actually progressive. It’s just saved in the industry-standard format.
It’s 50i (or 25p) for Europe (PAL) and 60i (or 30p) for the US.”
Source: Dpreview forum
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Comment from edpaul: hey guys, understand this, the NexVg10 i...
Comment from Jesse: Rob: I am in neither of those two groups...
Comment from Rob: Canon JUST added the feature - to a rig ...- Comment from Jesse: Rob, you're right, probably a very a sma...
ocal5
2 years ago |Finaly, we know the truth, ans Sony was lying about 50i/60i.
That’s baad.
Dulaney Ward
2 years ago |That’s a bizarre statement, Ocal. Sony’s clarification is precisely what I thought, and what I have heard vedeo experts explain. The interlaced format that the NEX output is packaged in is just Sony’s preference for packaging 25p/30p, which is the ideal format–and makes no difference at all in real life. 50i would never have been any different in speed.than 25p, if you want to avoid flicker.
James
2 years ago |“As I told you today I don’t care about 24p (it’s a consumer camera!)…” Actually a lot of people do care about 24p. Sony are great at making good products but removing desirable features that stops them being excellent products. Sony NEX-VG10 (No 24p, no RAW images, amateur AVCHD codec!!), Sony A900 (No live view, no video, noisy sensor), Sony A700 (Discontinued with no replacement!!).
AK
2 years ago |James, why do you care about 24p? 24p is used only in theater/cinema. Your TV doesn’t do 24p.
Mistral75
2 years ago |“Your TV doesn’t do 24p”.
Yes it does. 24p is the standard for Blu-ray discs.
LEdgars
2 years ago |“Sony A900 (No live view, no video, noisy sensor)”
It is not about sensor, but JEPG engine in or out of camera. Did you tried LR3?
“Sony A700 (Discontinued with no replacement!!)”
Sony A700 still is excellent camera. But for replacement it is question of preference to get slightly changed A700 or completely improved A750…
ocal5
2 years ago |Dear Dulaney, not that “bizarre”. I was planning to buy it because of that : 50i. When we look at pictures, we can see that’s blur (and it’s not only because of AVC) and that there is a “strobe” effect, because 25i/s is not enough ! (is it what you call “flicker” effect ? Not sure about my english words)
This “package” is well used in professional “workflaw”, called 25 Psf. But here it was sell as 50i camera, and definition seems far from “FullHD”.
qbic
2 years ago |ocal5, strobe effect its because of exposure time per one frame.
I’m using 24p all the time on 5dmk2 so Sony nex-handycam is no-go for me.
Anyway, where is firmware for A900, and why it is V1.0?
edpaul
2 years ago |so… whats the deal???
people who buys NEX-VG’whatever’… 90% of them wouldnt know how to edit the video professionally anyway. (window movie maker? urgg)
80% of people have 24- vidcam capability doesnt edit them anyway. (i have 20 friend with 5Dii that never shoot any video except for when they got the camera, did a ‘testing’ video)
and people who edits their videos professionally….and know what they need, and if they have deep pocket…. they know what they will end up with, not NEX, and so what the deal?
people who likes it, buys it.
people who dont like it, leave it and move on.
people who complains, u can wait… 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? then maybe your “dream” gadget will be out. or maybe never will. move on.
to me, i think nex-vg10 is nice because it can use A-mount lenses. and i believe the feature is far more complicated and better then a 5Dmkii (audio gain, DRO, etc). canon and nikon should try do it too.
Jesse
2 years ago |As an indie filmmaker and web video producer, I was SO close to pre-ordering this, until I learned it only captured in 60i. I know this is political and not to offend Sony’s Pro Broadcast division. But ATTENTION, SONY: you would sell a TON of these if you enabled native 24p and 30p capture (no interlacing) and then you would sell a TON of A mount lenses, and then you would have me in the fold as a customer for years.
qbic
2 years ago |edpaul I don’t understand how DRO makes Sony camcorder better than 5dmk2
AK
2 years ago |Jesse,
http://provideocoalition.com/…ex.php/freshdv/story/sony_nex-vg10_announced/
“But you should note that the 60i material originates from a
progressive sensor, and images do not appear to show any tearing or
interlace artifacting. This is similar to how the NEX-5 works…it’s
video mode offers 60i as well, but it looks progressive on your NLE
timeline. Another quick note: I also have it on good authority from a
Sony contact that the mini-HDMI port output is pre-compression, so you
also have the option of uncompressed recording when tethered to a card
or capture device. “
AK
2 years ago |Mistral75, In order for the Blu-ray player to enable 24 fps, it must receive a confirmation handshake from every component in the chain. If you TV doesn’t play it, it doesn’t matter what anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p
“In general, 24 frames-per-second video has more trouble with fast motion than other, higher frame rates, sometimes showing a “strobe” or “choppy” motion, just like 24 frame/s film will if shot as if it’s video, without careful panning, zooming, and slower camera motion. It is therefore not well-suited for programming requiring spontaneous action or “reality” camerawork.”
“It is worth noting that all 24p video produced will be eventually converted to 50hz or 60hz playback when viewed on a computer or television with the exception of new HD televisions that natively support multiples of 24hz. They scan and display images at 50hz or 60hz and then will add their own conversion algorithms.”
The production of 24p video that plays on a television at 60hz will not be exactly the same as theater film look. It may have some strobe or ‘film effect’ but lacks the proper film production and film screen viewing.
Most professional video cameras record the best quality at 60i before they output 24p video in their output settings. They do this so that their sensors and software can be calibrated for standard video use and yet the user can still achieve the 24p look.
ed paul
2 years ago |jesse: i agree sony would make tons of money (anyhow, they already have tons of money to throw around) they make more if they put space to release a ‘improved’ version for existing user to upgrade.
but the way i see it. sony is really smart. they wont just bring out NexVG10 to kill their own ‘old’ Vidcam division ( maybe NexVG will slowly replace it, ‘keyword: Slowly – step by step’). and if anyone had not notice, Sony is the only ‘capturing division’ among other brand that announce something new every 3 month. A200>A300(3 month), A550>A450(<6 month), TX5/7-TX9(NexVG10(3month). they have those product standby to be launch, but they just wanna ‘appear’ in the news more frequent (the success to ‘sony branding’ marketing).
who knows 3-6 month later VG20/25 around the corner?
Liza
2 years ago |Anyone who says this camera doesn’t do 24p is an idiot. 25p is what the camera does and nobody can see the difference between the two. You want 24p just buy e pal version, not that’d.
This is all just an excuse for people who can’t produce to blame the equipment, or gash the competition.
Rob
2 years ago |An awesome set of tools for this segment of videocams – the array of still image enhancements makes RAW less necessary too. I wonder what’s in store for the higher level videocams that SONY will be replacing over the next year or so? What else is there that a person would really want/need in addition to the much-improved sensor in this unit?
Jesse
2 years ago |edpaul: I can see your point of view from a business perspective, yes- they will make more money in the long run, and since they will be first-to-market (presumably) with anything like the VG10, they know they will have said market cornered and can omit some features. Plus, they don’t want to preclude the Sony Broadcast division from earning money, so they will keep demand high for future, higher-end products from Sony. They are in the hardware business, and I’m sure you are right that they will release an upgraded version with additional features such as 24p later on, especially if their competitors introduce cams with similar features (Panasonic at Photokina?). Of course, from my personal perspective, it makes no sense to buy presently if I know an upgraded version will be released later.
Liza, for most of my daily usage, 30p from 60i is adequate. However, for most filmmakers in the States, 24p is essential.
Rob
2 years ago |Jesse, what percentage of the market is comprised of filmmakers? I suspect we’d be looking at single digits or less.
If waiting will only see the inclusion of higher-priced models, then what benefit will there be in the vast majority of the market sitting on the sidelines?
Jesse
2 years ago |Rob, you’re right, probably a very a small percentage of the market are filmmakers- however, if Sony truly wanted to tap into the HDSLR stills/filmmaking/video hobbyist crowd, they would add progressive capture and perhaps manual audio gain. We’ve all seen how Canon benefitted from this segment, and then by releasing a firmware update to the 5DMII to add 24p. Sony is in this to make money, and there’s nothing wrong with that- I am really happy that they’ve introduced a new product like this, because the design is great and it’s better for everyone in the long run. But for people who are new to Sony lenses to invest heavily in them, it would be ideal to at least match video features of the 7D and 5DMII. Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I firmly believe in making the best products at the time, not leaving a few features out to make more money in the long run. Rest assured, I have no bias for any of these companies. I just think Sony could sell a whole lot more of these cameras if they added native 24p capture so my goal is to be the squeaky wheel and get them to add it
Rob
2 years ago |Canon JUST added the feature – to a rig that costs HOW MUCH? How well does the autofocus work on that rig? I’ve read reviews that mention how nice the output is from the Canon, but the reviewers usually add that they are so clumsy to work with that it makes devotees nearly insane. I’ve noticed in Pop Photo that it takes a raft of aftermarket additions (handles, viewfinders, etc., to make the Canon system really viable). That’s a world away from the cost/effort that most shooters will want to undertake. Also, I note that, as Lisa says a few postings up,
“Anyone who says this camera doesn’t do 24p is an idiot. 25p is what the camera does and nobody can see the difference between the two. You want 24p just buy e pal version, not that’d.
This is all just an excuse for people who can’t produce to blame the equipment, or gash the competition.”
Sounds to me like you’re in one of the two camps that Lisa takes exception to.
Jesse
2 years ago |Rob: I am in neither of those two groups: I am just enjoying a healthy- and friendly- discussion on the merits of current Sony products, features and future development. It was never my intent for it to devolve into a flame war, but in the best-case scenario, to catch the ear of people who could influence future product decisions at Sony- established users, etc.
You’re right about the clumsy methods of using HDSLRs- that’s why people are so interested in a Handycam form factor that encompasses and surpasses their best video features.
edpaul
2 years ago |hey guys, understand this, the NexVg10 is not design to conquer the world of Videography! simple. sony can design a NexVG90X (perhaps a FF vidcam? crazier DoF ^^)
NexVG10, whatever the real purpose of it. it just play role of stepping stone for something bigger.
IT IS NOT AIMING FOR FILMMAKER. (although some say it is) so they need not to make every crazy useful/useless professional feature into the camera. there are so many more better, more EXPENSIVE gear out there for them if they have pocket to burn.
this camera is 99% aiming at consumer level, which 90% dont edit their movie, they just click play on the VG10 connected to their 48inch LCD to show their friends their trip to Africa.
liza: it does make a big diff although 24p and 25p, it make additional of 2 times the hour to convert the file for 24p editing software. but if person is looking for a 24p, just get a 24p vidcam, we(not u) dont try to hardsell this vg10 to people telling 25p is what they looking for. its pointless.
jesse: panasonic is aiming at 3D techonology. sony jumped on the bandwagon, just for WC sake, now WC is over, it seem like noone bothers bout 3D anymore. =.=||||. but in business sense, yea panasonic will continue to develop 3D because that is the only best lead they have now. they cant compete with the ‘EVIL’ idea because lack of resources.
everyone else: listen up, there is NO 24p vidcam with (or bigger) sensor size then Nex (APS-C) with interchangable Lens, which priced at 2k range. you wont die of 25p or 30p. period. the ability to use lenses in Alpha line up bring a new limitless creativity. the exmor sensor is very promising with high iso shooting. the stereo mic will be outstanding. now… what was the problem again?