These are Sony’s ideas for the A and E-mount hybrid camera…
A source was that kind to explain me the different solution Sony engineers found to create the hybrid A an E mount camera. He didn’t unveil to me which one has been picked up by Sony. But here they are:
a) Singular mount that accepts all current lenses at differing distances from the sensor plane.
b) Sensor that moves the focal plane inward and outward dependent upon the mounting of all current lenses.
c) Singular mount that moves all current lenses at differing distances from the sensor plane.
d) 3 Interior (in-body) camera mounts that can be user switched dependent upon the mounting of all current lenses.
e) Redesign of all current production lenses to one physical mount.
Loading ...That said I don’t know if it makes really sense to work on those kind of tech solution. I think it makes mroe sense to keep the E and A mount system separated.
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massimo
4 months ago |voiting is not really correct
there must be ‘f’ option – none of them
Eric
4 months ago |I agree. I’d prefer just a pure E-Mount without A-Mount support. An adapter could be used for those that want to use A-Mount lenses. I have zero desire to mount overly bulky SLR lenses on a mirrorless body.
It sounds like this camera is designed to transition people from the A99 to the E-Mount. Then eventually doing away with the A-Mount. I think I’ll wait for a cheaper purely E-Mount full frame camera.
Annex
4 months ago |Weird poll options, half of the options sound like the same thing.
I have no idea what the difference is between a and c for example.
alan
4 months ago |WHat’s weird isn’t that the options seem identical, but that they represent every possible option under the sun. You don’t need a Sony insider to tell you. You can just think of them yourself.
J-Man
4 months ago |Add me to the ‘F’ none of the above.
Bigger, heavier, more complicated, no thanks, I’d rather keep my NEX 7 and buy 3 speed boosters.
Iterator
4 months ago |Honest question: why would anyone want to buy a $3000-4000 FF mirrorless with a hybrid mount over an APS-C mirrorless with a “metabones speedbooster”-type adapter to mount FF lenses (e.g. SAL on NEX) for about $2000? You would get similar light-collection/speed and depth-of-field control this way, right? May keep the body smaller, too. Not trolling, I simply want to know what other advantages there may be to a FF-NEX that I don’t know of/understand.
Joel Richards
4 months ago |That is an excellent question. I’m stating to wonder that myself. AF would presumably be better (at least with A-mount) lenses and it would be compatible with rangefinder lenses and possibly have a more compact system of full-frame lenses. I like my rangefinder glass so I’m still holding out for a genuine full-frame. A lot hinges on what sensor package they put in the NEX-9. If it is a warmed over version of the VG900 it won’t be worth it because it won’t play nice with rangefinder designs and so there’s no size advantage. I really hope that Sony doesn’t have some magic mechanical built-in mount. I’m sure that would be nice for some, but for me, with no current A-mount lenses it would be waste of money & space. I think there’s a far larger number of people in my camp.
That said, I might consider investing in some A-mount glass with the NEX-9 because after dropping that much cash I will certainly stay a while. I’ve almost pulled the trigger on an LA-E2 adapter and a beer can or tele-zoom a few times. I wouldn’t use it much but when you need it, you need it.
Q3photos
4 months ago |Any reviews yet on those metabones speedboosters? It’s an optical glass in the speedbooster adapter. But the question is what quality is the glass. will it make a sigma lens like a leica lens? Or will it make Zeiss and Leica lenses like low end sigma lenses?
John C
4 months ago |Well, for one, M mount lenses won’t work with the speed booster, only DSLR Lenses (including Alpha lenses) would. The reason is that the speed booster adds pieces of glass in the adapter, and you need to have a lot of flange distance to work with in order to even fit the glass in (the speed booster also reduces the total flange distance). The flange distance on M mount and other legacy mounts just do not have the flange distance necessary for the speed booster.
I think that’s the reason why many people want a FF e-mount. Also we might be able to get native lenses that are smaller than their a-mount counterparts.
Q3photos
4 months ago |But what is the quality of these glass? Does it introduce heavy distortion, more ca, less sharpness, less contrast, screws up the colors, and a whole load of fall off and edge smears?
After all, metabones was never ever ever renowned for making quality glass.
Twaddler Belafonte
4 months ago |Have they even been around long enough to earn a reputation? If they’ve had products before this recent Spood Beester thing, I’ve not heard of them.
Q3photos
4 months ago |exactly. they are nobodies. name one other piece of high quality “optics” that they rave reviews on. none.
xxxx
4 months ago |How about Metabone produces SpeedBooster2 for the FF NEX + MF lenses? That would be something ain’t it?
Paul
4 months ago |I would guess, that option e would be the best thing.
The one physical mount should be the E-Mount and the A-lenses should be redesigned to fit the E-Mount… No more SLT technology, only OS-PDAF and CDAF, assuming the OS-PDAF will get fast enough to detach the SLT mirror and the future lenses for E-mount will also allow FF.
ageha
4 months ago |I guess a 10 years old kid sent in the list. Nice!
Brook
4 months ago |I didn’t read through all the comments so not sure it was suggested but would it be unreasonable to design the camera with an a mount or an e mount then let the consumer buy one or the other dependent on the lens system they already own?
ms
4 months ago |if these are the options they are truly considering then the need to stop smoking whatever it is they’re smoking. Make and E-mount (or A-mount) FF mirror-less. Give the camera devision the resources it needs to make a world-class lens line up and start behaving like your in this game to win. Right now Sony is acting like a flake and a company who dabbles in the camera market which is frustrating as hell. It’s not rocket science. Look at established lens line ups and start making equivalents…. and lay off the damned tacky, slow silver zooms!!!
One More Thought
4 months ago |Why does Sony always seek to complicate things unnecessarily? As others have noted, what most people want is a camera that is approx the size of a NEX 7 but with FF sensor.
Don’t make it bigger or more expensive to add some sort of fancy tech to accept both E and A mount lenses. Make it E mount and offer an adaptor. Simple.
If you give us a FF NEX E mount for $2000 or less, with the type of great sensor we now expect from Sony, you will have a huge hit on your hands.
CanonJack
4 months ago |Its official! Sony is shutting down its lines of A and E mount cameras because the community complains no matter what they do and they’re tired of fighting their users.
Sony is damned if they do, damned if they dont.
Frank
4 months ago |If you want to see experienced whiners then have a look on CaNikon forums, they have got it down to a fine art.
CanonJack
4 months ago |I agree 100%!
Everyone just needs to relax a little. If what Sony (or Canikon) is doing REALLY bothers them, switch mounts! We’re all owe it to ourselves to find what works best for us, whether its in a professional capacity or a hobby. Unfortuantely the manufacturers dont see it as they “owe” us anything. I think the faster technology changes, the less stable an investment in any lens mount will be – that goes for Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc. We’re living in a strange world these days…
Wayne Summers
4 months ago |Well said. I guess a lens mount is like life, its not promised to be there tomorrow.
Carl
4 months ago |Of course, if we’re forced to change mounts when we don’t want to….
The idea of an internally-moving camera is awfully Rube Goldbergian, but Sony’s compulsion to design such a thing comes right down to this. If they kill off A mount they’re in for a world of pain, the number of people who use A mount because their happen to like using DSLRs who’ll transition to NEX anyway is infinitesimal. At the same time, developing for two mounts is clearly an expense they’re rather do without. That they, apparently, have four different working solutions to the problem says at least that they’re thinking deeply about the problem, but I don’t think any of them is going to work well, at least not if we’re expected to shell out $4000 for something that is no better as a picture-taking device than something Nikon sells for $2000.
ruffy
4 months ago |Another Canon JackA$$, I do have some respect for Nikon, but not at all for Canon.
CanonJack
4 months ago |No hard feeling then buddy, I shoot Nikon D4 and D800E. Canon? Psh…
I used to shoot Canon, and have shot Minolta, Pentax too.
My name is just to anonymize me.
maston
4 months ago |What about a back and forward shifting sensor as in example b) but with some micro shifting as well?
It could autofocus assist manual focus lenses! Any lens!!
SonyIce
4 months ago |While I have my doubts on the technical possibility of option d) “3 Interior (in-body) camera mounts that can be user switched dependent upon the mounting of all current lenses,” it would be a good way for Sony to gravitate all of their ILS customers to one product line, the NEX. It would be a huge technical feat, however, if Sony was able to create a mirrorless system that accepted A-Mount, E-Mount and the older SR-Mount (MD/MC Rokkor) without the need for an adapter. Needless to say, I have a hard time imagining that the image quality could be optimized for each of these lens types using one camera – but, one can only dream.
DaveT
4 months ago |I’d be very happy with an E-mount and the adapters I already own. I don’t want a new lens system…I’m very happy with my old lenses…both Minolta AF and manual glass adapted to either Alpha or E-Mount. Just give me a smaller camera with a bigger sensor.
Mars Observer
4 months ago |Many people seem to be against a dual-mount body.
I agree with Sony though, and think it’s a good idea. Opening up the world of A-mount lenses (of which there are some beautiful ones!) to the NEX will make the NEX more competitive with CaNikon.
Allowing it ‘in-body’ may well be cheaper, and provide a smaller form factor, than using an A-mount – NEX adapter.
Lastly, it will allow A-mount user to more easily transition to the NEX system, should they choose to do so.
It’s a shame that IS will be lost – but maybe Sony has a trick up their sleeve for that.
Whatever the solution, I think the 3 most important considerations are:
1) SIZE – the impact on overall size of the NEX body (needs to remain small)
2) DURABILITY – an overly complex solution may be more prone to breaking-down over time
3) COST – the dual-mount is a “nice-to-have”, but I don’t care to pay a lot extra for the feature, especially with so many adapters available
Maybe Sony should partner with Metabones for the solution.
redfern
4 months ago |Admin, I’ve tried posting comments 4 times, and nothing ever gets through. Can you please work on this? It’s really frustrating.
redfern
4 months ago |But of course THAT gets through. WTF.
Hellven
4 months ago |it also happens to me alot to
Carl
4 months ago |I happened to me earlier. The software is just broken.
DBM
4 months ago |The list was all of the options they thought of, not a list of choices we still have. They most certainly have already decided which method they will be using.
If we’re voting to guess which Sony did, I’m thinking it’s either A or D. B and C mean more moving parts in the camera, which would be riskier. Although the idea of a moving sensor means you might be able to add sensor stabilization as well
I would think if the engineers could do A, that would be the way to go. D would be next. B and C seem roughly equivalent, but it might mean a larger body with wasted space when using E-mount lenses (Especially for option B).
E makes no sense whatsoever. I guess it means make yet another mount, which means this isn’t a NEX camera, It’s just a mirrorless, Full-Frame camera. It was a last resort, if none of the other options turned out to be feasible.
WK
4 months ago |Moving the sensor to adjust flange distance is not at all a motion used in sensor based stabilization. It’s straight fore-aft where stabilization is motions at 90 degrees to that across the lens axis. All the stabilization motions maintain the flange distance and thus do not interfere with precise focus. They are mechanically locked on the focus axis and precisely aligned to it with a set of alignment screws. Flange distance adjustment is in the same direction as focus movements. Which means additional potential for mechanical play in the system messing with focus as it would not be locked set screws.
Joel Richards
4 months ago |What if the NEX-9 will have the Sony FZ mount and come bundled with an E & A mount adapter? That would “technically” fit with the wording of Adrea’s source and solve the size/distance conundrum?
o
4 months ago |I think the flange distance of the fz- and the e-mounts are the same (18mm) which should make it technically impossible to properly adopt the fz to to e. fz to a-mount should work though.
ItDoesNotMatter
4 months ago |Question: shouldn’t the flange distance change between a APS-C and a FF sensor?
WK
4 months ago |The flange distance is determined by the lens design, not the sensor size. Once you have the lens designed you have to make the sensor position work with that flange distance.
Weakling
4 months ago |f – One mount on the front and the other on the back
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |Admin
Could yoi ask sar readers if they would buy a 54 megapixel full frame camera of comparable image guality to the nex7n
Also ask about a 36 and 24mp version.
This way mayby Sony can know what we would buy before they build it.
It might also be usefull to tell sar readers about 8k video standard as it might influence thier opinions if they knew.
The Lotus Eater
4 months ago |Andrea, is it possible to auto-delete any post with the words “54 megapixel” in it?
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |Why is it so important that just because you don’t want it no one should have it?
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |Exactly lets find out what people really want, not just who speaks the loudest (myself included)
The Lotus Eater
4 months ago |Because you’re spamming this messageboard with the same post over and over and over again.
o
4 months ago |maybe we could ask for the poll just to end the discussion
Peter Korp
4 months ago |pretty much a single E mount with an adapter for A mount just like it is today but
wit ha new adapter that probably wont have a mirror…
I think the solution will be like the adapter for Nikon V1 to F mount lenses for
hybrid autofocus…..;)
simon
4 months ago |just make a good adapter for a-mount lenses (maybe one that you can secure with screws or something like that instead of just the bayonet) plus a self calibrating sensor.
or just ignore the a-mount I don’t care for that, just get an a99 or something if you have a lot of lenses. because I don’t think it is really important to have on board a-mount support, make it optional for those who want it.
CanonJack
4 months ago |Which they would do if they were going to continue development of the A-mount….
CTPhotographX.com
4 months ago |History tells us that Sony will abandon E and A for something new and useless… but will provide adapter that dumbs down the tech, and makes your lens fall off.
It will be hailed as revolutionary… And reviewers will praise the change claiming NOTHING fit E or A mount to begin with. And you guys will call me a whiner for complaining about it. I’ll be labeled as an old toothless tog stuck in the past, afraid of modernity.
Sure wish the flash shoe options were discussed before killing us with improvements.
Sony like a bad cheating girlfriend…
Hot as hell, totally unpredictable, expensive, self serving, and rarely keeps her word.
CTPhotographX.com
4 months ago |And we’ll have to wait a year, just for another 24mp Sony, which will be pricier than an a99 and NEX 7 combined.
Oh boy!
sonikon
4 months ago |So if they want to use FF Alpha lenses on a slim mirrorless without an adapter mount How is the camera going to hold those heavy lenses without breaking the tripod mount?
Pure E-mount would be smarter and then alpha adapter with the tripod foot would be better.
The build had needs to better than the Nex7. Sure it’s metal on the outside but it’s still plastic fantastic inside and tripod mount is good for nothing other than native e-mount lenses. Forget putting any lenses heavier than the Tokina 11-16 on an adapter without a tripod mount on the adapter. I found it on another forum Sony wants $750 to replace the cracked tripod mount.
How many NEX owners own alpha cameras and lenses are there vs NEX owners that don’t own any Alpha camera’s or lenses? A few simple surveys would help Sony figure out if a hybrid E/A mount would be a smart idea.
o
4 months ago |“How is the camera going to hold those heavy lenses without breaking the tripod mount?”
Guess what – better tripod mount! Alpha bodies hold those lenses all the time you know, and their tripod mounts don’t break. it’s not like it’s impossible.
Mike
4 months ago |So then why isn’t “Keep A and E mounts separated” an option in the poll?
quobetah
4 months ago |Sensor movement maybe the best option. OMD can do it pretty effectiely while maintaining a very small slim camera, of course sony can do it too. It could also double in as sensor stabilization for Nex finally.
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |That might be a good idea if it can do in camera stabilzation.
If it adds size to the camera I don’t mind.
Alpha Mark
4 months ago |Dual mount? yuk!!! That reaklly defeat the design purpose of a NEX system. I got a feeling that Sony is struggle to design a FF len that fit in a small compact NEX body.
Klaus The Vampire
4 months ago |Hybrid spells trouble! I know myself on this one
calxn
4 months ago |If this leads to a frankenstein, bulky solution, then I’m out. So far, I’m pretty happy with APS-C NEX. FF NEX would be a reason to ditch my FF DSLR for something more compact, but if Sony produces something bulky just to appease A mount, they will lose me and other Canikon owners.
calxn
4 months ago |If this camera cost more than it should because Sony engineered a way for the 200 A mount lens owners to use their lens without an adapter, I am completely out. FF NEX should be dead simple. FF sensor in a NEX body with E-mount. If they have to deepen the distance between the sensor and lens a little, that’s fine. I do not want to see or pay for mechanical contraption that readjust the mount for DSLR-sized A mount lenses I will never buy.
JustSoldMySLT
4 months ago |my 2 cents.
NEX9 will cost $3500 or more than whatever RX1 is priced at.
So those thinking of getting a cheap NEX9, continue dreaming.
Sony is targeting rich amauters or rather rich techies to buy this.
And also those who have heavily invested in Sony lens who wants a smaller body.
These people will hail this new camera as a new saint.
NEX9 will come with hybrid mount that accepts both A & E.
In order for the above to happen.
Also for the benefit of all future Sony cameras.
Users will have access to more lens, from both mount, lens will fly off their shelves.
And they could choose either to have IBIS or OSS up to their liking.
e.g. A78 that could mount your E lens natively?
NEX9 will not have IBIS for E, but have IBIS for A.
A mount has no OSS but there are for E, this is the logical path they will approach.
NEX9 will have a bigger body, to accomodate the new mount.
Like i said, the target group of users for NEX9 is different.
If you do not fall in this group, whining will not help just stick with Sony’s plan for you using NEX3/5/6/7.
Or if compact is your key reason, just stick with Sony’s RX series.
Hybrid A+E mount will be hailed as revolutionary, as it will help Sony merge both lens into one family.
And from this, they could slowly concentrate on one mount in the next few roadmap.
This will most likely be the transition plan upcoming over the few years.
NEX9 will have 24MP sensor, no point going higher which cost more and take worse pictures and even worse raising the cost of the already expensive camera and R&D costs.
Remember they still have to make differences between NEX series and their Alpha series.
NEX9 will not have a viewfinder, ala RX series but might have big touchscreen.
This will help boost profits.
xxxx
4 months ago |The simplest solution to the hybrid mount is make one mount that accepts both, focal flange distance by default is of the longer mount and make the sensor moves forward to get the shorter FL. Don’t have to make the body ticker, just the mount. It’s like a camera with an adapter attached to it permanently. Will look like this one: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MngdlKHuxBg/UBAeO3XoRUI/AAAAAAAAFyw/xi20GPzBm3A/s1600/kipon_adapter2.jpg
Pros:
-Built-in screw AF is possible
-better lens alignment. adapter can decenter lens
-sturdier for large A-mount lens.
-can still use other-mount-to-NEX adapter because it still has NEX mount.
Cons:
-less compact, adapter is permanently attached.
xxxx
4 months ago |“Don’t have to make the body ticker”
Thicker, not ticker.
MrLee
4 months ago |Just sit back for a minute and really try to absorb how wack this ideas is…
andrew
4 months ago |I’m curious – how many nex shooters here regularly use a-mount lenses? Ive got a nex 3 kicking around struggle to see how most a-mount lenses would ever feel natural on a nex.
I wonder if part of the problem for sony is the cost of designing ff e-mount lenses for an as yet unproven camera. It could be that it will have a-mount compatibility for a wider range of ff lenses, allowing the to drip feed e-mount lenses if the demand is there.
If that’s the case, why not make the nex 9 native a-mount and release a-mount pancakes?
Oskar
4 months ago |I have decided to keep my a850 and go for nex+la ea2 on the side instead of upgrading my alpha body. the lenses that I have and plan to use on both cameras are Minolta 35 f2, 50 f1.4 and planning to get the Minolta 20 f2.8 and the Sony 85 2.8. I’ll keep my old beercan for special occasions. this has become the perfect solution for me to get portability without entirely giving up FF, and without having to invest a lot of money in a double range of glass.
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |If sony plans a solution that includes built in image stabilzation then i vote for it even if it increses the size of the camera slightly. I would even accept a small price penalty to achieve this.
On the other hand if the solution does not include image stabilization then there is absolutely no reason to build it in. Use an adapter in that case.
People will only use nikon ir canon lenses if stabilzation is not included, not a mount.
I will still only biy the camera if it is something new.
I will not buy another 24mp camera no matter what they put on it.
animalsbybarry
4 months ago |Heres another thought.
If sony uses a moving sensor it can serve multiple functions
1 Shift the focal plane to allow a or e mount.
2 Sensor shift image stabilization.
3 Sensor shift auto focus to allow auto focus if manual focus lenses.This will allow use of smaller more economical lenses.
4 Built in automatic extension tube for the closer or macro focusing. The lens can also be manually focused as a focus limiter for faster auto focus with the sensor
solersala
4 months ago |f)stabilized hybrid sensor
The problem is the A mount: it requires stabilization on the body and phase detection, both can be solved with a sensor with stabilization movements and (more powerfull)phase detection photodiodes.
Rooru S.
4 months ago |there is something not mentioned in your post Admin…how the heck they get the right diameter for both A and E mounts on several of the approaches made to give a “solution” to the hybrid proposal. All possible options made to get it working for both the A and E mount registration distance but none for the difference in diameters (Except for option D and E).
I still call this BS unless I see the actual product. (And if they adopt the option E, then it is not a hybrid anymore) And guess what? If they adopt any of those options, it will be so big, that it won’t be called NEX anymore and will become a new series along with the NEX and SLT series.
Tulio
4 months ago |f_ Ditch the mirror.
ms
4 months ago |Hope you’re right… these sorts of rumors are getting people to really question what the hell Sony is doing on other web forums. Not really a good thing for building trust in the brands (which Sony hasn’t been helping themselves with some of their actions). They really need to get their #@$ together…
JoeNoName
4 months ago |How long have you been reading SARs ?
All of us that know Andrea really aprove his work in this site and the rumours that he posts are very well written with enough background information to show us the most he can without talking nonesense.
If you can read, there are more than 1 option precisely to mantain the source without compromizing him.
admin
4 months ago |You are right. And I was so lucky to have posted 95% of the time reliable SR5 rumors. Damn was lucky when I was the first to tell you about the new SLT technology. And I was lucky when I told you about a new mirrorless NEX system. I am lucky having told you about the A58 and lucky about the A99 pictures I posted as first.
People easily forgets what I did in 4 years. I am used to be blamed for what I write…and I used to the fact that guys like you disappear the same day Sony announces what I “rumored” on SAR
Photonut, believe me, not me, but you will have to pay me a beer in one year exactly
Q3photos
4 months ago |Horrible ideas.
Why this hybrid mount if it has to have moving parts??? More moving parts (either the mount or the sensor must move back and forth) = more points of failure. More dust more dirt more grit stuck inside. And will this be a mechanical or electronic motors to move them? If electronic than have to wait and wait for the motor delay each time changed a lens?
Should keep two separate mount bodies. A full size bulky heavy but rugged a-mount mirrorless. Hell it can even have a FAKE pentaprism like SLTs do. And the other is a compact e-mount with simple mount adapter.
Frank
4 months ago |PhotoNut just got spanked.
celloman
4 months ago |Absolutely!
CanonJack
4 months ago |PhotoNut is learning you should never doubt the seemingly far fetched ideas of R&D. Crazy ideas are the mother of invention, so long as development mirrors design.
WK
4 months ago |The vast majority of crazy ideas fail. I’d say trying to stuff two mounts in is one of those ideas that will fail. Even if it did not it will add greatly to the cost of the camera bodies.