Sony patent discloses the first Full Frame lens for the E-mount Full Frame system!
Egami spotted the first Sony patent describing the lens charcatersitics of a 35mm f/1.8 E-mount lens for the future Full Frame system. The lens specs are:
- Focal length f = 35.81
- Fno. = 1.85
- Half angle of view ω = 30.78 °
- Image height Y = 21.6mm
- Mod β = -0.25
- Eight lens elements in 7 groups configuration
- Two three-sided aspherical
- 1 ED glass sheet
This would be a perfect street photography lens! I am going to buy it if if it comes in 2014 
A55
3 months ago |And it is really wide angle on FF. Sweet.
Thanks, Andrea!
HOTU
3 months ago |+1
I’m gonna buy this lens too
I think 3 Zeiss fix lenses will be enough for my little future Sony ff mirrorless camera
Jules
3 months ago |I would give a try before making a move!
Don t expect too much sir!
I expect IQ equal to Rx-1, not enough for me!
jarno
3 months ago |Really wide angle? It is just 35mm, and only 35mm on fullframe.
Carl
3 months ago |Hopefully a 24/28mm f1.8 is part of their game plan.
Jiri
3 months ago |Sorry, but this is still not wide enough. There is of course always the option to use older legacy glass, particularly in the UWA range.
Don Cox
3 months ago |I don’t see the use of a wide aperture such as f/1.8 on a 24mm FF lens. When using a wide angle lens, you look for great depth of field – the lens will be used mainly at f/8 or f/11. I think f/2.8 or even 3.5 is ideal.
Quite different from a 50mm or longer, which could be used for portraits and low light shots. For a 50mm, f/1.4 or even 1.2 is useful.
Remember that a wider aperture generally means more elements, which makes quality control tougher and prices higher. And the more elements, the greater the chance of one of them getting knocked out of alignment if the camera is dropped.
I think a well made 35mm Tessar-type design would be compact and useful, at around f/3.5 with manual focus.
Carl
3 months ago |If you’re shooting a landscape and want more depth of field then sure. But for street shooting one doesn’t always want pan-focus.
Rooru S.
3 months ago |I would gladly use a 24mm at f/1.8 at a dinner without having to get up and compose the picture. Or in tight places without too much light. There is always a use for certain lens wide open at f/2 or faster.
Hellven
3 months ago |Now we just need a 50/1.8 and a 85/1.8 and we have a hit!
Nik
3 months ago |A-mount has a lot of good zooms to begin with and those are likely to be large regardless of the mount. My expectation would be for Sony to kick-off the system with a few small primes (24, 35, 50?) and bundle or at least sell an LA EA4 full-frame adapter for zoom duty early on.
Some of those primes will probably come from Zeiss. Didn’t they commit to releasing some next year?
Mistral75
3 months ago |Sorry to be a party pooper but this is the patent of Sony E “Carl Zeiss Sonnar” 24mm f/1.8 ZA.
See http://www.sony.jp/products/picture/y_SEL24F18Z_comosition.jpg the optical formula is the same.
In this patent, the 24×36 35mm f/1.8 is only a variant of the APS-C 24mm f/1.8.
samdman
3 months ago |It might be such variation. But I bet this 35 patent covers alot bigger image circle to accomodate FF sensor area.
Mistral75
3 months ago |There are three variations extracted from the patent by Egami :
- 24mm f/1.8 APS-C (image circle radius = 14.2mm) -this one is the Carl Zeiss Sonnar
- 24mm f/2.2 APS-C
- 35mm f/1.8 24×36 (image circle radius = 21.6mm), wich is kind of a “scaled-up” 24mm f/1.8 APS-C.
F value and the angle of view remain basically unchanged; focal length, length, back focus and the image circle are enlarged. Unfortunately aberrations would be expanded too…
Mistral75
3 months ago |“which is”, sorry…
Emacs
3 months ago |Abberations are contolled via the larger sensor.
Hendrick
3 months ago |Mistral is right. If the design is essentially the same, then all optical errors are scaled up along with the image. Whether this will translate in more resolution as well remains to be seen.
What I do find displeasing and disappointing is the new love of 1.8 as a wide aperture. Maybe marketing has a say in this: “Alright, a lot of brands use 1.4 and 1.2 as their gold standards for ultra fast lenses. We dont want to look like them and we got the Zeiss name so we can make our lenses 1.8 and it will even cost us cheaper to make than 1.4′s because its less of a challenge to design them”
I would love to have 1.4′s instead of 1.8′s. The sonnar is good at 1.8 at the centre only (I am a journalist and I shoot in low light very often) and gets a bit better at 2.2 across the frame. I find there is still a lot of astigmatism beyond half frame outside of the centre at 2.8 and I think its discouraging to see how Zeiss allows their name to be slapped on a lens that has a very high resolution only on the centre, and average to below average resolution on the mid frame and edges.
I have a voigtlander 35mm 1.2, and I have seen many samples of it on an M9 (to understand that this lens can perform well on FF) so I have high hopes to use it on the NEX X instead of whatever Sony/Zeiss bring if the new 35mm turns out to be…below Zeiss.
Poki
3 months ago |Astigmatism? I use the 24mm CZ now for more than a year and never saw any sign of astigmatism. The resolution is quite good from f/2 onwards across the field and excellent from 2.8 onwards – it’s just f/1.8 where the borders leave a little bit desired, but they’re still good enough for most situations.
Would be interesting to know how much this lens for ff sensor would cost – as it is one of the most expensive APS-C only lenses available at 1.000€.
Maxwell
3 months ago |Sony E FF in: 20mm F2.8, 24mm F2.8, 35mm F1.8, 50mm F1.8, 85mm F1.8, 105mm F2.0, 135mm F2.8
And later some expensive Zeiss E FF lenses for the people who want it.
For me just:
20mm or 24mm, 35mm and a 85mm all F2.8 or faster.
andrew
3 months ago |Make the 50 f1.4, and depending on how large the 105 is (assuming it’s a macro), I’d be very interested!
ObviousTroll
3 months ago |Image height and FOV not exactly 35mm FF. It seems to have a 1.1 crop. Why does Sony keep annoying us?
Carl
3 months ago |Most lenses have a focal length a few millimetres different from what they’re sold as. Eg. The Sigma 50/1.4 is a ~45mm lens.
Boooe
3 months ago |Proof for 45 mm?
extra|ordinary
3 months ago |The Sigma 50/1.4 is actually closer to 46 or 47mm. And I actually do have proof
Boooe
3 months ago |Share it with us?
John Maverick
3 months ago |Pretty neat. SONY are on their way.
Slingers
3 months ago |This is a smart move by sony to be adjusting the 24/1.8 aps-c and releasing it as a FF lens. But I wonder if they will and annoy those that have brought the existing lens. Looking at the source with all the patents I wonder if they will release the 24/2.2 as a cheaper option for the current NEX.
CTPhotographX.com
3 months ago |A completely different, and interesting design departure from the Mino 35/2 shown here:
http://www.dyxum.com/lenses/Minolta-AF-35-F2-RS_lens70.html
…which Photodo awards a score of 4 on MTF… above Leica Summicron R f/2 and Summilux M f/1.4 (both rated at 3.8). The little Mino is just behind the 4.1 score of the highest rated Contax G f2 and Leica Summicron M f2.
In other words, the Mino is no slouch.
Point being, looking at Dyxum diagram for element construction, compared to the new E-Mount FF… I don’t know… Is it just me… but the E-Mount lens looks to be much longer than necessary, compared to the Mino… and especially compared to the Summicron M and Planar G, all of which are full frame lenses too.
Considering the NEX FF is mirrorless, why aren’t they capitalizing on the shorter registration advantage? It will be interesting to see if this NEX FF is any shorter, smaller than a Mino 35/2 or SAM 35/1.8 with Alpha/NEX adapter. I’m actually confused as to why they aren’t simply modifying the RX1 lens for short flange NEX.
Hendrick
3 months ago |Perhaps the length is a needed evil since the lenses you mention have their exit pupils very close to the film plane that, as we know now, is not good for digital.
Sky_walker
3 months ago |Since when DSLR lens (Minolta 35 f/2) got a rear lens close to the film plane?
Rolleiflex
3 months ago |I think he meant those mentioned RF lenses. I still think the limitation is due to the smaller throat size of the E-mount relatively to the sensor size. With that, you have to either move the rear element further away to make sure the light could cover the sensor. Or if the element is closer, one has to deal with the high incident rays. That’s part of the reason why Sony is quite reluctant so far to confirm the existent of a FF NEX. They know full well that the VG900 owner would more like to shoot with DSLR lenses rather than those Leica M primes. The big throat size is important for a big rear element to maintain good performance for small lens (look at the Sonnar 35/2).
Boooe
3 months ago |> I’m actually confused as to why they aren’t simply modifying the RX1 lens for short flange NEX.
because in the RX1 lens, the last element almost touches the sensor. The RX1 uses central shutter, the NEX uses focal plane shutter.
Rolleiflex
3 months ago |See my comment above. The current E-mount throat size is not big enough for such design.
mkln
3 months ago |Now THIS is something worth waiting for!
CTPhotographX.com
3 months ago |Surely Sony got the memo… that we want FF NEX capable of mounting rangefinder lenses… right?
This new design makes me wonder if the FF NEX will be short registration enough for that. The rear element is considerably far from the image plane. Surely Sony is accommodating for that… right?
Carl
3 months ago |We’ve heard nothing to suggest the registration distance and mount will not be identical to that of current E mount lenses.
Ability to mount rangefinder lenses will be constrained by corner shading and smearing, not mountability.
Hendrick
3 months ago |And onnce more… perhaps the length is a needed evil since the lenses that have their exit pupils very close to the film plane, as we know now, are not good for digital.
CTPhotographX.com
3 months ago |Well, I guess voodoo math is used for the RX1. The rear element is almost touching the sensor. Sony must have a wizard on staff.
Carl
3 months ago |It’s not where the elements are, it’s where their entry and exit pupils are that matters. The pupils are ‘projections’ not physical objects.
You could have the rearmost element glued right onto the sensor but it wouldn’t necessarily mean that exit pupil was anywhere near it.
Emacs
3 months ago |Then sony need to sort out these _sensor_ problems. Because compact wide angle optics is one of the key advantages mirrorless cams can give over SLR.
Hendrick
3 months ago |Did Leica solve them how? no AA filter…will Sony do this? We don’t know.
What I do know is that the loss of the AA filter does not result in greatly improved sharpness. This was explained by a German engineer who I forgot his name and had a non AA and an AA covered sensor match one against another.
Fants
3 months ago |Leica hasn’t solved them. The M9 has worse color shift than the NEX-7.
Emacs
3 months ago |The M (Type 240) seems to solve it, but at the cost of additional light loss (due to high angle of incedence when the light reach microlenses)
Anfernee Cheang
3 months ago |How to know it covers full frame? 21.6mm image height? That sounds weird…
Mistral75
3 months ago |It’s the radius of the image circle, meaning a diameter of 43.2mm.
24×36 diagonal is sqr(24^2 + 36^2) = 43.27mm.
Carl
3 months ago |The radius/diameter thing can be tricky.
RVN
3 months ago |damm, always f1.8.. i bet it will be still large n more pricy.
Carl
3 months ago |Early adopters always get hit in the pocket.
Capss
3 months ago |There must be misunderstanding.
The patent itself was filed in 2011, for the E24ZA lens.
According to the technical data, the also patented 35/1.8 was designed for SLT system, not for NEX.
It has the same special characters with 50/1.2, all for SLT system.
But finally, not yet any SLT specialized lens produced.
MakeUnbelieve
3 months ago |I will not be surprise if Sony does that following:
1. Releasing ff nex with only primes.
2. No zoom lens and users will be forced to use adapters for a mount lens.
3. And even if they do eventually release zoom lens 5 years down the road it will be low end lenses.
4. This is to force the difference between their alpha series and the nex series.
5. Early adopters will be screwed over and have to buy from bought mount increasing Sony profit.
6. And when you know it they do not upgrade your ff nex firmware at all.
7. Sony starts releasing new ff nex 2 that is overrated and scaled down but fixes some issues from ff nex 1.
8. Users bitches about it but still buys it.
Maxwell
3 months ago |Nahh… I hope for some good not to expensive primes 24mm, 35mm and 85mm.
And I guess there will be something like a 28-75mm zoom early.
But I don’t want zoom lenses because I want to keep the FF NEX system as
small as possible. If the sensor is 24 MP I guess there will be “digital
teleconverter” and you also have the in-camera panorama that is ok for some use.
I believe many people would look at a FF NEX like a “digital back”.
And use it with adapters and all strange kind of lenses.
The NEX system is maybe not the best for sport or long tele shooting, but
for the rest I have a strong believe in it.
spaceman
3 months ago |So far detachable G-lenses have only been FF. Who knows if Sony high-performance standard zoom will cover FF image circle and not APS-C as was likely intended in the beginning.
Maxwell
3 months ago |I guess a FF NEX will have APS-C mode anyway. So all E-mount APS-C lenses
should be able to use on a new FF NEX. So there will always be something
to use from day 1.
Jules
3 months ago |+1
I have the same impression than you, given that the past can be an indication of what the future hold !
Jules
3 months ago |_+1,
I have the same impression than you, given that the past can be an indication of what the future holds.
JustSoldMySLT
3 months ago |+1
28-75? LOL continue dreaming… maybe 10 years later.
FF NEX will not be small like everyone thought – sony loses some potential buyers
FF NEX will not have small lens like everyone thought – sony loses even more potential buyers
Sony will be out to make FF NEX something premium but without the full features of a99 but is priced closed to a99 like a hundred dollars off.
Meaning, no tethering, no weather sealing, uses old battery, no battery grip, no flash, maybe even no view finder like RX1.
Sony will lose all the hype they gather like a58, possibility 75%.
Hendrick
3 months ago |As long as it has a viewfinder included, the intended market for this camera (and its price) will be untouched.
People forget than when Sony comes out with it, unless Fuji (or anyone else) does something similar, the only other option is a £5k Leica. So, Sony can easily price it at a99 price, have similar feature minus tethering, lens sizes slightly larger than current E mount lenses and still sell a tanker load. Why? because it would have little competition.
Unless one needs AF, any M mount lens would still (hopefully) be a great asset of this system. With focus peaking, many will not mind loosing the AF of the E mount FF lenses as long as they can use the lenses they own.
Many will just go out and buy a voigtlander 35mm 1.4, which is cheap and OK enough for most people. Many will buy the 1.2 version and many will try and see if the Biogon 35mm ZM will work better on the FF NEX than it did on the NEX 7.
As long as it remains the size of a Fuji X or Leica, it would still be a relatively compact camera. You dont need NEX 6/7 size to call it compact. Anyways, with the RX’s out there, compact is another category.
Sky_walker
3 months ago |Your argumentation is based on one assumption that’s flawed to start with – that NEX users pick 3rd party lenses as their primary choice.
Joel Richards
3 months ago |What is that flawed? Yes, I think the camera will be released with at least ONE lens available (ALA X-PRO1 with the 35mm) and at least 2-4 quickly available thereafter. Personally I think it will be primes only initially with an updated LEA4 adapter since Sony already has several good A-mount zooms and zooms are by their nature big and heavy so the flange distance doesn’t matter as much.
John Maverick
3 months ago |They do if they want the highest quality lenses.
John Maverick
3 months ago |Fullframe zoom lenses work much better on a DSLR because of their size. People wanting compact zooms should be thinking micro4/3 or APS-C.
Boooe
3 months ago |“Tiny”? Are you nuts? It is almost a SLR lens, in terms both backfocus and size.
o
3 months ago |seems tall for a compact system. I wonder why there still hasn’t been something like the old Minolta 35 f2 on either a- or e-mount. it is said to be great – sharp, fast and tiny.
massimo
3 months ago |I will never buy it if it doesn’t have true mechanical manual focus, like all current sony E-mount lenses
massimo
3 months ago |I meant manual focus feature in addition to auto focus of course
spaceman
3 months ago |It is pretty safe to assume that the FF lenses will also have focus-by-wire like all other e-mount lenses.
Btw, manually focus on E-mount lenses I have tried, especially the Zeiss 24 is a breeze to manual focus with it and feels very nice too.
Rolleiflex
3 months ago |Focus-by-wire has a crap feel for manual focus. The dampening is too loose and there is no hard stop. If you think the ZA 24/1.8 is nice, you have to try out the feel of the big ZA 24/2 and the like. Now I can live with that.
Emacs
3 months ago |It’s too huge indeed.
Joel Richards
3 months ago |It does seem a bit big. I estimate 70mm in length (by guessing at where the lens mount would be). If that last element protrudes into the lens mount a bit then it might be closer in size to the minolta 35mm f2 (ie ~50mm).
Joel Richards
3 months ago |Edit my Contax G 45mm is ~50mm with adapter. That lens is about as big as i would want a prime for the NEX. Anyone with the ZA24mm, how long is that lens?
Poki
3 months ago |It’s about 65mm long, which I would call perfect for usability (not pocket-able, but the NEX never really is anyways).
Vivek
3 months ago |My earlier post is censored?
Anyway, in my book f/1.85 will be rounded off to f/1.9 and not f/1.8!!
RickJ
3 months ago |Nex user logic is hilarious, “Look how tiny my nex is omg its so cuuuuteee” (straps an adapter and a big piece of F2.8 F1.8 glass on it” … now it’s an inch shorter than a SLR.. congrats.
Sky_walker
3 months ago |Nah, that doesn’t apply only to NEX users. It’s the same with roughly any mirrorless fanatics. Since like a year or so suddenly a group of people popped up thinking that smaller camera is better. Regardless of anything else. Smaller is better… only forgetting that we’ve been there in ’70s an came back to the cameras that are actually ergonomic and comfortable to use, not just small.
anon
3 months ago |Despite the flawed logic, mirrorless market keep growing bigger and bigger. What’s wrong with those people?
Steve
3 months ago |Thank you!!!!
Rooru S.
3 months ago |NEX user PROPER logic. I can go small with voigtlanders or any pancake or small lens and be stealhty or travel light whenever I want to while you can’t do the same with your “biggish” SLR (and not even talking about the lens size) and if need arises, use fast Telephoto lenses with the same small camera…
Quick comparison. NEX-7+Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4 vs. any SLR/SLT+any 35mm f/1.4. Do the math.
Steve
3 months ago |So, I’m I now reading this correctly that some posters think the admin is wrong about this lens being designed for the E-Mount?
I’ve tried to review that application myself but the link didn’t open.
Poki
3 months ago |No, not about that. It’s just that the patent is more than a year old – and just a scaled up 24mm 1.8. The 24mm CZ for E-Moutn is a fine lens, but when scaled up, even the calculated MTF charts don’t look that promising anymore. I doubt this would be a lens many would buy for the asking price (which had to be considerably more than the €1.000 asked for the APS-C version).