Sony sensor world domination compared with the Kodak film domination…
Roger Cicala from Lensrentals posted some thoughts about Sony’s sensor strategy based on the latest news that also the new Olympus E-M5 is actually using a Sony made sensor. Robert compared the Sony situation with that from Kodak ages ago: “They were cutting edge developing first dry plates and then film, releasing ‘consumer’ cameras that brought photography to the masses, and making everyone’s prints. They dominated the photographic and movie industries for nearly 100 years.”
I don’t know, on one side I am happy to see Sony ruling the sensor technology and business, on the other side it’s a bit pity that they are not really pushing their own camera business. Things are going a bit slow there and it almost looks like their focus is on selling sensors instead of cameras. Anyway, we are close to Photokina and Sony may show us the exact contrary!
One more thing: Lexar announced that it will join the Sony XQD technology (via ThePhoBlographer).
Arthur
11 months ago |Where are the cameras? Where is the tilt shift lens and integrated VG?
documensony
11 months ago |Well … If Sony is the new Kodak … where is Fujifilm? Wasn’t their claimed to be even better than Sony’s? Why don’t Fuji sell them to Oly, Pentax and whoever, then??
matgay
11 months ago |how is this domination when canon is the most sellingest brand and they havent any sony made sensors
passer-by
11 months ago |Some(most?) Canon P&S use Sony sensors. But hey, Canon is on #2. Not bad at all.
Peter
11 months ago |WHAT???? NO ONE NOTICES THIS????
THE ADMIN KNOWS SOMETHING!!!
“Anyway, we are close to Photokina and Sony may show us the exact contrary!”
COME ON MAN!!! GIVES US SOMETHING!!!
PS: I love you.
444444444
11 months ago |oh great sony “dominates” the photographic world… because of ONE sensor generation.
what a bulls*it…..
these are cycles…. and companys who stop producing their own sensors and rely on sony to much will face a bad awakening some day!!
history has shown this over and over.
Daemonius
11 months ago |One generation? You crawl out from under that rock..
Sony is doing sensor for Nikon since .. long time. Most likely since D2X times. Everything from that point was manufactured by Sony (even tho design is Nikons).
Today Sony sells sensors to Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, Olympus, Leica (yes X2), Ricoh .. well pretty much everyone except Canon and Panasonic. So yes, they own market.
Downside is obvious, since they dont have real competition… it can cause a lot of trouble in the future.
Sahaja
11 months ago |Each generation of sensors costs more to develop, and more sophisticated and very expensive equipment to produce. Sony has been investing very heavily in plant to produce imaging sensors – I suspect it is going become increasingly difficult for other imaging sensor manufacturers to keep up or try and overtake Sony.
Samsung is probably one of the few companies that could if they choose to, as they are a massive conglomerate with immense resources.
PhotoNut
11 months ago |You really don’t want SONY to become the “next” Kodak. For one thing Kodak is now bankrupt and when there were not yet bankrupt, management was well known to be very averse to taking full advantage of their own technology preferring instead to go with what had historically worked for them.
So actually SONY may not be that far away from Kodak’s bad business sense!
Rooru S.
11 months ago |so this means Sony will dissapear soon from the camera market? Because they’re good with the sensor but they’re not pushing their own Camera Division…I know it has been some months ago that the new CEO took place and changed some things in Sony and that the recent changes will take full effect in a few years..but men, This is kind of frustrating not seeing many lenses and accesories development.
passer-by
11 months ago |Hopefully they don’t end up like Kodak.
JB
11 months ago |+1000
Carl
11 months ago |Well both are lumbering conglomerates with more than a little hubris.
Sony’s number hasn’t been called yet, but nothing lasts forever.
passer-by
11 months ago |The difference is, I think, that Sony’s business is much more diverse than Kodak’s. If one segment failed, other segment could still generate revenue. In fact, I think that might be happening right now. TV business = dying, Sensor = profitable.
Dusty
11 months ago |Kodak was once a giant with many, many, diverse products. Eastman Chemicals was big, they made paper products, medical equipment, cameras and film.in various divisions.
Then came the idea to “focus” on film, in a world where the digital image sensor that none other than Kodak invented was replacing film.
Sony may do well to not focus too much on DSLRs/SLTs/NEX as they may be largely replaced by the phone cam.
It used to be you couldn’t get an image without a film camera of some type, an extra device you bought and carried separately, and paid extra to have film developed and printed. Now everyone has a camera, and even if they don’t produce award winning photos, they give you a memory of where you were and who you were with, the reason most people take photos.
Cameras as we know them may soon be a rare item.
Dusty
Randy s.
11 months ago |Kodak was very diverse. Its one thing that caused them to fail.
tom
11 months ago |Kodak was a company with one extremely profitable, high margin product, whose revenues allowed them to diversify into other markets. When that market went away they could not adapt to low margin markets like digital cameras. I would say the Microsoft is in much larger danger of becoming another Kodak than Sony is.
passer-by
11 months ago |I didn’t know Kodak was that diverse. I guess I don’t know much about Kodak.
Sahaja
11 months ago |If Sony are able to dominate imaging sensors for anywhere near as long as Kodak were able to dominate film it wouldn’t be bad for Sony. Do you care if they go bankrupt 100 years from now?
The parallel with Intel and their dominance of the computer CPU market may turn out closer to the truth than the comparison with Kodak.
hobel
11 months ago |I dunno what you are talking about. How many years did a camera generation in the past last? Those livecycles get ridiculous short meanwhile. Does one have to find that good?
Each camera on the market has some flaws/bugs/problems when it comes out. May be slowing down is the right approach.
Slowing down and delivering something well thought and working. From day one.
When have seen such a thing the last time?
Something solid, no whistles and bells, but solid and working.
And lasting for 15 years, as in the past.
Tore
11 months ago |Has Sony/Minolta ever done “no whistles and bells”? My old Minolta Dynax 7xi, released in 1991, had functions available on program cards that isn’t even available on modern cameras (http://www.sds.com/mug/card.html) like changing the focal length of the zoom to keep an object coming towards you the same size in the picture (I assume based on distance measured with the AF-system, because it obviously couldn’t analyze the image like digital cameras can).
Sahaja
11 months ago |Today these kinds of additional features could be added by firmware plug-ins instead of cards. It will be interesting to see if anyone ever produces a camera with an operating system that has an architecture allowing plug-in applications.
Ryan
11 months ago |Sony did say they didn’t want to be in the camera making business. they just want t make sensors.
documensony
11 months ago |Wrong. Sony said quite the contrary. Photography is a key sector for the company in the years to come.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |Exactly. I expect that we are seeing the calm before the storm. The new mangement emphasized not only leading with the Imaging Division, but also getting products to market faster.
GunnarK
11 months ago |The Camera Division of Sony has just been elevated from somewhere in the middle of the Sony hierarchy and to the very top. Image, mobility and games will be the three corner stones of Sony in the future, and perhaps medical technology as well. TV production and some other business will be dropped, as already said (I guess Samsung is paying their workers around 95% lower salaries than Sony has to pay its Japanese workers).
This means much more R&D money to e.g. the Camera Division of Sony, much more freedom, and much more possibilities to try out new crazy cameras.
.
soulfly
11 months ago |*reads article*
*nods head*
dmac
11 months ago |I’ve read that around 80% of Bravia’s are made by Sony Malaysia. Only the highest of models are made in Japan.
Hans
11 months ago |“Things are going a bit slow there and it almost looks like their focus is on selling sensors instead of cameras.”
What? Sony releases too many cameras at the moment imho. An upgrade for every camera every year and also a lot of innovation in EVF, SLT and more. I guess they sell a lot of cameras, but I would rather see them selling and releasing more LENSES!
James
11 months ago |> “Not really pushing their own camera business”
That’s a bit hard on Sony when you consider that they’ve been leading Canon and Nikon in terms of feature/functionality innovation. If they were ‘doing a Pentax’ releasing dull me-too cameras and lame attempts to be trendy and designer, I’d have to agree with you
E
11 months ago |Count the nmbr of bodies for interchangeable lenses
that have been announced after the a-200.
“Not pushing” is a bit harsh I would say.
I hear the lenses screaming as much as anyone, but 2nd sentence differs:
Some scream about more Zeiss lenses “Plz 300/1.2 @ $500″
Some scream about lenses being available but to expensive.
Some scream about more “Value Choice” lenses.
Some scream about about more F/4 zooms.
(Variable f-stop isn’t fine enough…)
Not an easy crowd to please,
but it is easy to join the choir …
/E
Andrew Lynch
11 months ago |In answer to why canon is not leading sensor sales. Sony sells their sensors to anyone that will have them and themselves. Canon only use their own sensors and dont sell them. Hence why sony sell more sensors.
Ojojo
11 months ago |And, of course, Sony sensors are just better than Canon’s at present.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |And have I not read that even Canon uses Sony sensors in at least some of its P&S cameras?
passer-by
11 months ago |Canon should consider using Sony sensor if they want to narrow the gap of sensor performance between Canon and Nikon. Or, of course, they can come up with better sensor.
matgay
11 months ago |u got it wrong. perhaps sony should sell its sensors instead in a canon housing to make them more popular.
passer-by
11 months ago |That’s a good plan, seriously. It will makes Canon fanboys happy.
shamb
11 months ago |The writing on the wall seems to be that there is a price war looming in the consumer non-pro end of the market (e.g low priced Nikon 3200 undercutting low/mid SLT) and that is currently where Sony’s *camera* sales are.
Sony would do better in a price war if they just sell sensors (that way they make money on volume), and I’m sure this is – unfortunately – the view at Sony top-level. All their commercial actions so far seem to point to it.
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |Nonsense.
Stevey
11 months ago |Oh how I miss Minolta.
Miroslav
11 months ago |One thing Sony sensors lack is PDAF on sensor. Canon, Fuji and Aptina ( Nikon ) are ahead of them in that regard.
john
11 months ago |Fuji was a fail on P&S
Nikon1 switches to cdaf in low light
Canon works with optimized lenses..yet to see results
Canon announce APS-c mirrorless july 23rd
see how that goes
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |Sony tends to wait until a technology is fairly mature before introducing it. The on-sensor tech that has so far been offered commercially is EXTREMELY immature.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Nikon is having problems producing and servicing the D800.
It is a focusing problem that appears to be caused by a complicated mix of out of tolerance parts, lack of focus testing, lack of focus adjustment procedures and lack of firmware that would let the customer adjust peripheral focus points.
The Nikon forums are so full of problems that I have cancelled my order for a D800E, lenses and more.
Since the heart of the D800 is the Sony 36 MP image sensor I am urging Sony to offer us a fullframe, mirrorless, 36 MP, autofocus, Sony NEX? camera. Please also offer a full range of top quality prime autofocus lenses.
If Sony elects not to do this, please facilitate somebody else to put a fullframe, mirrorless, 36 MP, autofocus camera on the market.
Some will argue that we do not need 36 MP.
The real advantage of 36 MP is that I do not need to use zoom lenses. I can use top quality prime lenses, over-frame my images and later crop the image to the framing that I want.
It simply produces superior results overall.
matgay
11 months ago |keep dreaming. same exact sensor in a mirrorless, without the mirror? a pdaf sensor with no cdaf, now pdaf-less.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Yes, mirror-less means NO mirror.
Contrast Detection Auto Focus is fine for now. Pixel integrated Phase Detect Auto Focus coming soon.
matgay
11 months ago |phase/contrast detect for u p-brain
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Go away please!
matgay
11 months ago |^^ preschool grammar
The Lotus Eater
11 months ago |matgay, did you really just pass comment on somebody else’s grammar?
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |Please don’t feed the troll.
matgay
11 months ago |lol! this was in response to bent nyman, who made a comment on grammar as if his is perfect, and then embarrassed, edited back his comments.
really now – this is a techie site, not a site to submit poems. attack the color of a guys shoes only when you are stuttering of nothing else to say!
shamb
11 months ago |The combination of the D800 high ISO and focusing abilities means the D800 is at its best in low light.
Under those conditions you can’t see that it can’t focus.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Actually, the Nikon D800 performs quite well in low light, at reasonable ISO. The focusing problem, however, is a deal breaker.
Bill
11 months ago |“Nikon is having problems producing and servicing the D800.
It is a focusing problem that appears to be caused by a complicated mix of out of tolerance parts, lack of focus testing, lack of focus adjustment procedures and lack of firmware that would let the customer adjust peripheral focus points.”
I have not read the link, but how much of Nikon’s issues is just people moving from a 12 MP sensor to the 36 MP sensor? The 36MP is going to highlight issues that the 12 MP glossed over.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |It is not a sensor or sensory related problem. It is a very real and noticeable hardware control problem where for example the extreme left focus point produces a grossly out of focus image while the center and the rest of the focus points produce sharp images. By the way some Nikon D4 have a similar problem.
anon
11 months ago |Recently because Sony jumped the MP race, everyone likes to pick on Sony with the argument ‘your higher number of MP causes ugly images’
And then Nikon uses it and they shut up 
But if it’s in a Sony forum they pick on it again o.o
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Agreed!
The images from Sony’s 36 MP sensor are spectacular and are propelling affordable photography into parity with Medium Format.
I can’t wait for a mirrorless, fullformat, 36 MP camera.
Bill
11 months ago |It sounds like the focus array is not properly aligned with the sensor. However, the higher dpi of the sensor also aggravates this type of issue. The smaller the circle of confusion is on the sensor the harder it is to align things. I was reading one of the Zeiss blogs on lenses and the writer mentioned that with a 8 x 10 view camera the film had to be positioned with the tolerance of typical carpentry tools, the required CoC for typical prints was so large there was more than adequate depth of focus even for 1/8 inch errors in film placement. When working with cell phone cameras the tolerances were in the micron range. The new D800 falls somewhere in between but I am sure using typical tolerances used for the design of the D700 would fail with the D800. Of course we do not know if the design tolerances are too lose or just that they cannot reliably achieve the alignment tolerances required when making the camera.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |Hi Bill,
I agree that it sounds like an accuracy problem. However, the unavoidable circle of confusion resulting from lens quality and imperfect focus is optically independent of the image sensor pitch.
Maybe you are suggesting that the finer pitch image sensor is more sensitive to this imperfection, and maybe even magnifying the circle of confusion some way. If this was the case, why would they achieve perfect focus using one focus point and be grossly out of focus using another?
I have another theory. The geometry of a DSLR camera limits the size of the PDAF array to an area smaller than the image. Nikon wants to offer focus tracking over the entire image. Is it possible that extreme left and right focus points are not directly sensor based but the result of algorithmic extrapolation of more central PDAF sensor data. Nikon has suggested that the problem is the result of incorrect compensation data entered into the firmware.
If this was the only problem it should be easy to fix. However, assume that you also have a tolerance problem requiring custom data for each camera, which is not presently being done in production. Then you would have a situation that starts to look like what we see in the field.
It’s a shame. I would like to buy a D800E but I am not willing to send it back and forth for a hit and miss fix.
doug
11 months ago |The left AF focus issue with some early D800/E’s was real. However, Nikon has identified the source of the problem and will fix it under warranty. Newer units shipped after the first of this month won’t have the problem anyway.
Bengt Nyman
11 months ago |This is not known to be true and has not been announced by Nikon. Ming Thein, a (Japanese?) photographer working in the US made this unauthorized claim which was later proven to be untrue.
C
11 months ago |In *SOME* d800′s
If you get a d800 with a problem, send it back and get another working one.
My d800 is perfect. No green tinted screen. All AF points work brilliantly. 3D tracking is absolutely incredible. Low light performance totally destroys my Sony a850, and the detail at ISO100 and f8 is mind-bogglingly awesome.
Carl
11 months ago |Good…so Sony will go burst like Kodak did! This blog is great but the Sony “fanboyism” many times kills it.
anon
11 months ago |If Sony go burst, then the others using Sony sensors go burst too?
Carl
11 months ago |what do you think? Are there other companies producing sensors rather than Sony? What I was saying is that Sony shouldnt make the same mistake as Kodak…
Dulaney Ward
11 months ago |No they shouldn’t, Carl. And there is always a chance, so cautionary tales are important. However, while there are some things Sony does or doesn’t do that baffle me, I nevertheless believe that they are acting very differently from Kodak, especially on the camera front.
ChenAlan
11 months ago |Sony sensors dominates like Kodak in film… now don’t screw it up like they did!
nm
11 months ago |it is terrible sad they make sensors and everyone but them can figure out how to use them more effectively in a camera. so sad.
passer-by
11 months ago |It’s good for sensor division, not so good for Alpha. Imagine if Sony sensor inside Nikon DSLR underperform, people will accuse Sony of selling lower grade sensor to competitor(kind of like what Panasonic did to Olympus). Now that every other camera outperform Sony camera, that apparently wasn’t the case. The only problem is with the Aplha/NEX owners – they feel neglected by the world’s best sensor maker.
Joe
11 months ago |I did some consulting work at Kodak toward the waning parts of their existence in 2005 and they made it perfectly clear to me. They were a paper company. Their sole business model was to make better, cheaper, nicer paper than anyone else. Film was not a priority because they couldn’t make it any better. They had a Japanese no-name company making their cameras and leasing the Kodak name to the bodies. Sure, they came out with new technologies, but we’re talking pennies on the dollar when it came to their paper business. What would you consider Sony’s key business? Playstations? Vaios? Blu Ray? It seems to be Sony does the engineering and leases it out to gain a consistent revenue stream. Maybe Sony needs to lease out the A-mount and allow a different company to build their cameras with the Sony nameplate. I am sure there is an up-and-coming electronics company who could utilize the A-mount and Sony Sensors to build something magical and Sony could laugh all the way to the bank. The big winners: the consumers.
LifeStoryImages
11 months ago |If sony wanted to rock the camera world, all they would have to do is: Release their cameras with the option of lens mounts. Alpha, N, C, S… They could become equal or better to N/C in a day. Then people would eventually just buy the alpha mount option more and more. That’s what I’d push if I was a marketing manager at Sony. But I’m not a marketing manager at Sony.
Booe
11 months ago |Better yet, NEX-like base camera body and interchangeable mirror OVF/SLT modules
Greg
11 months ago |Yeah, that’s logical…if Canon and Nikon were willing to sell the rights to their lens mount. Somehow, though…I find that highly unlikely to happen.
nm
11 months ago |two names for this Pentax and Olympus, both in crappy places now…
AG
11 months ago |Sony does have great sensors. Let’s hope they learn from Kodak’s mistakes though.
Allan
11 months ago |Slow is right, I got the A77 in January and joined this Sony world of cameras and I’m already looking for a way out the door. Love the camera, but hate the lens selection. So looking to move to Nikon and their wonderful world of lenses. Sony blew it… I don’t know who is running that division, but they clearly are someone’s uncle in the family business.
bloodsucker
11 months ago |yepp, nikon is going to release 800mm f/5.6 probably at same price as sony 500mm f/4