(SR5) Sony NEX goes Full Frame!!!!
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This is a very short but almost revolutionary rumor…
I just learned via (many) trusted sources that the third revolution from Sony is about to happen. After the SLT and NEX introductions (first two revolutions) Sony is about to change the photographic and video industry with the third revolution… a new Full Frame NEX system!
I am now working on the details of that “revolution”. If all works fine I will have some news to post about it within the next days. I want to be 99% sure about what I am going to post here….so dear sources send me all the info you can at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com or use the anonymous contact form on the right sidebar…Thanks!
As usual with rumors keep your expectations low and be aware that this is a rumor based on mysterious sources and NON-facts. Keep also in mind that I have been told this is just a “Start” (whatever it means). But this may be the first time I believe Sony could seriously compete against Nikon and Canon and Leica in the Full Frame world. Canon C300? Nikon D800? Leica M9? Hmmm, Sony may (very) slowly catch them all 
Stay tuned on SAR! Working within all my free time on rumors now! Please write precise questions within the comment system so that sources can read and answer them. I know the first question will be…is it possible to have a Full Frame sensor on a NEX mount?
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Thank you all, a very tired and overworked Andrea (SAR admin).
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Reminder (SR = Sonyrumor):
SR1=probably fake rumor
SR2=rumor from unknown sources
SR3=50% chance it is correct
SR4=rumor from known sources
SR5=almost certainly correct!
Breen
10 months ago |What if it will not be a FF nex camera but a mirrorless A-mount camera?
Sony has some great quality FF lenses so it would be logical.
LR
10 months ago |This would be called A950
Matthew
10 months ago |Well the a99 is close to that, its mirror will be translucent, anyway.
http://matthewdurrphotography.com
Tom
10 months ago |Hard to believe.
But Sony has shown that they are able to produce camera bodies quick. Sadly, they seem to be unable to produce matching quality lenses in the same speed. My Nex-7 gathers dust, because of that. Instead, I’ve bought an OM-D with a set of high-quality lenses and I’m more than happy with that.
Now, they will announce a FF-Nex? Wouldn’t it have been better to fulfill the need of the current Nex-7 owners for matching lenses first, and then make a new high end Nex? Instead, they made a high end model, let all those gearheads buy that thing and then make another, even better high end model?
If that comes true, I feel betrayed.
Kiril
10 months ago |What is the lens you miss so bad that NEX-7 becomes unusable?
I think 24/1.8 alone is more then enough to become world famous photographer. Yet they have 50/1.8 and a whole lot of other lens options…and dare I meniton that my NEX-7 sees the Contax G adapter mounted quite often with some of the best human made lenses to date.
Tom
10 months ago |I did not say that the Nex-7 is unuseable. Im just missing lenses. And the existance of a very good 24mm (=35mm FF) is not really enough for a landscape shooter.
Richard Saunders
10 months ago |I mostly shoot my NEX with adapted lenses, from Voigtlander and Nikon.
As a landscape shooter, you’d get by just fine w/o autofocus. Although with focus peaking even non-static subjects aren’t impossible to shoot.
Sahaja
10 months ago |The forthcoming 11-18mm may be very good for landscapes
LifeStoryImages.com
10 months ago |As I say when I teach/lecture: You know what the BEST camera to take a picture with is? THE ONE IN YOUR HANDS –SHUTUP AND SHOOT!
Seriously, people, no whining about what you don’t have until you’re taking great images with what you do have. Then you’ll stop wanting to whine.
That said, with a ~75% Approval to the survey question, and the consistent refrain below “It’s about the lenses” – I think Sony has a clue!
kirk fuk
10 months ago |you are either one of those m43 fan boys or toy collector. I don’t think you hv nex 7 at all. Prolly just trying to justify your em5 purchase. I would rather have 1 top quality camera and 1 top lens, than 1 crappy iq camera with all top features and bunch of lenses on the street.
but then still, nex will have bunch of new lenses. That will hurt your heart even more. Cause no matter how long you will wait, or how many lenses you have, that em5 will never match the IQ of nex series.
Sell it before too late.
Tom
10 months ago |From the way how you are insulting every poster here who writes some critical things about Sony stuff, I have a very clear impression about who is a fanboy.
derek
10 months ago |Most of you are so impatient. You want everything all at once and then when you have all of it in front of you, you can’t decide what to buy. Sony is trying to build what Canon and Nikon had build in the last 50 years or more, it’s like trying to build a big city in a year!
Decide what you want Quality or Quantity! I know what you are going to say “both” good luck with that one, it will give you more reasons to complain about! No one will ever be satisfied what they want just because we are humans who are very opinionated in everything in the world, that’s the way we are, period.
Enjoy what you have, you have more then most people on the planet. Think about it, there is always someone out there who has less than you.
Have a nice day, go out and take pictures:)
One More Thought
10 months ago |Tom: While innovation in electronics can come quick, and that’s what drives digital camera bodies…it takes longer to develop quality lenses. Lenses are a mix of technology and craftsmanship…it’s not as simply as cranking out a better chip. Lenses don’t follow Moore’s law…
So be patient…there are already some good lenses for NEX, with more on the way shortly…as others have pointed out, it took many years for Canon, Nikon, Leica to build up their formidable lens collections.
I think Sony right now is hitting on all cylinders…we’ll see when they release the new lenses.
Hellven
10 months ago |OMFG!
jimstir
10 months ago |As a FF Nikon and mFT user I have been tempted by Nex in the past { built in high grade EVF etc} unfortunately from my perspective the lens choice is overall both pretty poor and pretty limited. I think we are all prepared to accept that zoom lenses are harder to design and especially harder to make small when covering an APS-C sized sensor, however I would have hoped for a decent selection of better performing primes. I appreciate that mFT with a smaller sensor has an advantage though possibly the main advantage is the ratio of 4×3 which in effect reduces the need for extreme corner performance. It’s amazing the difference cropping to a 4×3 ratio “improves” the results of even the most mediocre lens.
If they are to capture a larger market especially the Nikon and Canon serious users , the first priority has to be lenses.
Jim
Kiril
10 months ago |What is the exact lens you miss? 300/2.8 – not a great idea to start with NEX system at all.
the lens options are more then sufficient if you cared to check last 12 months that is.
with 35/1.8 and 11-18 coming the only one I wait is a wide aperture telephoto lens like the Olympus 75/1.8. Even as it stands today i do not want all the E-mount lenses.
Steve
10 months ago |Kiril
It’s not about focal length it’s about the aperture and image quality.
Sure, Sony has released rumored NEX optics but very few tempt me the replace my a850’s with a NEX camera and replace 12k worth of AF Sony Zeiss, Sony G and old Minolta glass with NEX lenses.
Hopefully this will change with this rumor as my camera bag is heavy and I carry it everyday
Sahaja
10 months ago |Actually the way for Sony to capture serious Nikon and Canon users is to design this camera in such a way that, with an appropriate adapter, they can use their existing lenses.
If Sony have managed to get on sensor PDAF working well it _might_ be possible to make “smart” adapters for Nikon and Canon lenses that retained their full functionality.
Girg
10 months ago |Boring… I bet they’ll have one lens for the start. Maybe a even more boring 28-200mm lens which is about five times larger then the camera? Yawn…
NEXfive
10 months ago |I’m having more than enough manual full frame lenses here I’m frequently using via adapter, which I’d love to use with a full frame NEX instead of APS-C and whoever bought Sony’s LA-EA1 or EA2 or the Metabones Adapter will have even more reason to go full frame. Would be enough if Sony only offers a 35 or 50mm kit lens or even no lens at all…
István Gábor Takács
10 months ago |I dont really understand why people want more lenses when with adapters (LAEA1,2, or any 15 USD adapter ring from Ebay) you can use ALL the lenses on Earth.
@lpha_guy
10 months ago |It might be the hybrid (A&E) mount?
Sony G and Zeiss ZA lens to NEX FF sensor
4323423
10 months ago |and when will sony start making lenses???
kirk fuk
10 months ago |when will you go back to m43 forums? You and other bitches who are bitching up bout new lenses are just sony haters who own m43 system and are starting to get nervous cause nex system is getting better and better with more body(better af) and more lenses(pancake) to come.
New lenses are coming!did you not know this? Beside, if you really own nex, if you really now photography, lenses that are available today are more than enough.
jw48335
10 months ago |It’s really too bad there isn’t a downvoting or reporting mechanism for these vulgar kids like kirk. Pathetic.
Steve
10 months ago |Sony can put a sensor in anything it wants, but can it, or will it make the lenses to support it?
A-Mount, E-Mount or A&E-Mount I don’t care but show me the lenses and if the optical performance is better than or equal anything else and I’m in with my money.
Show me the lenses!
Andrew
10 months ago |This is excellent stuff, already own a nex-7 and can’t wait to get a Nex FF
Carl
10 months ago |Full frame mirrorless? Where do I sign?
Danillo
10 months ago |Hmmm… this would be awesome for me. My favorite lenses ever are the old Minolta manual focus lenses, and this would allow me to use them properly. With focus peaking it would be excellent. It’s even conceivable that someone could make an adapter to control the aperture as well (though I wouldn’t hold me breath on that). I really hope this happens.
Hellven
10 months ago |Zeiss is probably right now converting their ZM zeiss line up to Sony
Old Badger
10 months ago |I wonder why people think that the short flange to sensor distance is a problem for full frame lenses. It’s the throat size (internal diameter of the mount) that’s important as the flange distance gets shorter. In a mirrorless camera, the flange could be very close to the sensor (or shutter if the internal diameter is large enough to accomodate the full image circle and any associated linkages. Wikipedia says the throat diameter of the NEX mount is 46.1mm – but it’s unclear if that’s the internal diameter or external. The full frame image circle is 43mm diameter, so if the NEX mount is 46.1mm internal diameter, then it’s very possible to accomodate full frame with 18mm flange distance. It may be a bit tight, but that’s an engineering challenge (or could be resolved easily by making a slightly small “full frame” sensor).
Incidentally, the fact that you can use full frame lenses on the current APS-C NEXs via an adaptor is irrelevant – you are only trying to cover the APS-C image cirle.
CRYO
10 months ago |Looks like something A + E mount hybrid and with on sensor PDAF
Torsten Bronger
10 months ago |Is it really possible to direct light sensibly on a FF sensor with a focal flange distance of only 18mm? The incident angles would become dangerously small. Besides, none of the current E mount lenses have an image circle large enough. Sony would have a roll out yet another lens ecosystem. Bummer.
The focal flange distance of E mount is too small, that of A mount too large (you lose compactness). Leica has 27mm, which is probably close to perfect. So — either a third mount type (hard to believe) or a poor compromise. I don’t like this rumour.
spaceman
10 months ago |I don’t think the NEX flange distance (18mm) is a problem. To make a big enough image circle, Sony can just make the lens slighty longer, provided that they are using a similar design to a given Leica lens. That would be similar to be using an adapter.
Either way the possible FF NEX lens will most probably be bigger (esp. longer) than Leica if they want to fit AF and IS in it as well.
peevee
10 months ago |They could make a microlens array with the microlenses closer to the corners slated sideways.
Old Badger
10 months ago |I suggest you draw some diagrams for yourself. The flange distance has nothing at all to do with the angle light rays hit the sensor. That’s an issue that arises as a result of lens design. Current full frame DSLRs don’t have a problem – a short flange distance can simply be compensated for by including spacing in the lens design. Don’t expect lenses to be any smaller that they are now – wide angles excepted (see below). If you doubt my point, take the lens off your DSLR and look – there’s nothing between the back element of your lens and the shutter except the mirror and it’s the mirror that makes the flange distance in DSLRs as large as it is and nothing else. The flange could very close to the sensor (provided the throat is big enough), but the lens would be longer with a lot of empty space inside the back of the lens barrel before you find the first element.
The size of the Leica flange to film distance is nothing magic. The body had to contain a 35mm cassette and the rangefinder mechanism and remain small (for its time) and neat – the flange is on the front of the body and film at the back. Indeed, the widest Leica lenses protrude well back into the body – so the flange distance could be said to be too long to be ideal!
Super wide angle lenses of the classic rangefinder designs create a problem with light rays striking the sensor at very sharp angles, particluarly near the edges of the frame. DSLRs don’t experience that issue because the rear element has to be clear of the mirror. That’s resolved by using retrofical lens designs. Retrofocal designs have the downside that they are larger, more complex and heavier than an equivalent fixed or rangefinder lens. However, the coincidental up side is that light does not strike the sensor at such sharp angles.
However, Leica has got round the problems it experienced with classic super wide lenses. Sony could also do so – but it isn’t necessary – current retrofocal designs will be ok. However, the opportunity would exist to purpose design smaller and neater short focal length lenses in the future.
Torsten Bronger
10 months ago |I know that the rear lens could be moved farther away from the sensor — but what’s the point in having the E mount then after all? The new lenses would have an empty tube at their rear end that could never be avoided by future designs. I’d prefer a larger flange distance and shorter lenses. My bag contains one body and many lenses after all.
In the field of compact cameras, size does matter. Therefore, I think a common flange distance for APS-C and FF is disadvantageous.
(And I don’t think that retrofoci are a good idea with mirroless cameras, not even as a temporary solution.)
Moofy
10 months ago |Absolutely. If Leica can, then Sony can as well. Now here’s hoping that Sony also looks to Leica for inspiration when it comes to Lens quality – and especially lens *size*!
OTTO
10 months ago |The “one more thing” Andrea mentioned – a curved sensor??
I suppose however no one of current lenses would work without a modification (or optical adapter).
LifeStoryImages.com
10 months ago |Speaking as an optical designer, I would rather have no constraint on the bfl (back focal length) of a lens, and for a complex, highly corrected lens there would probably be elements close to the focal plane. If I needed to constrain ray incident angles to be small (“small” is good – angle is measured from the normal to the focal plane) it would be even more true.
As I said before, the E-Mount CAN accommodate FF sensors, with some limitations in some configurations of corner vignetting. I do not believe a “FF NEX” would use the A-Mount lenses natively, as this would be an dSLR w/o a mirror, and seem less like a “NEX”. So my guess: FF-NEX would either E-Mount or a bigger new “E+” (still close (18mm?) to the sensor.)
Another interesting option: Using the A-Mount, FF-NEX lenses could significantly penetrate into the body. Now I’m changing my mind that this is a valid option: this is “smart” in that existing A-mount lenses are useable on Day 1 while we wait for FF-NEX releases. The “risk” here is someone tries to use them on a SLR/SLT and breaks their mirror.
Adam
10 months ago |The whole point of NEX cameras is to use non Sony lenses on it. I will buy a FF NEX even if it ends up costing Leica money.
Kevin Z
10 months ago |Just looked up some info. The external diameter of E-mount is even bigger than the Leica M mount, so full-frame on E-mount is totally possible！！！
E
10 months ago |But the connectors are inside the mount ….
LR
10 months ago |No zoom, no AF in leica lenses
Hellven
10 months ago |Zeiss is probably right now converting their ZM zeiss line up to Sony
Sahaja
10 months ago |That would be nice.
cjk
10 months ago |sony can use the dslr mount for this type of camera.
they have tons of lenses for ff!
Sahaja
10 months ago |It makes no sense to use a DSLR mount on a mirrorless camera (unless you are Pentax). That would only make the camera body much thicker than it needs to be and eliminate the possibility of adapting many lenses.
That adaptability, and how far it goes, could be one of key factors to the success of this camera.
If they design it so that, with an adapter, Nikon and Canon users can use their existing lenses, it would be a very attractive second camera for those users. And then who knows, if those people find the camera good enough, they could be won over to Sony entirely.
Max
10 months ago |“I just learned via (many) trusted sources that the third revolution from Sony is about to happen.”
“As usual with rumors keep your expectations low and be aware that this is a rumor based on mysterious sources and NON-facts.”
How do these statements go together?
admin
10 months ago |It’s a statement to prevent any legal problems. I have to remind that this is a rumor website.
LifeStoryImages.com
10 months ago |As confident a you want to be in a rumor, be confident.
Lollo
10 months ago |This is so great, it was time someone thought of it. If it has the E mount, there will soon be lots of adapters to use EOS and Nikon lenses on it, given E’s super short flange distance.
If they don’t cock up the UI (read: I want direct dials instead of menus), they will make a killing. I am on.
pancanikonpus
10 months ago |if nex FF w/o SSS, what is your though?
documensony
10 months ago |The one big Nex-bummer from Sony was leaving out SSS, unfortunately
Neo NiGHTS ®
10 months ago |If there was a FF Nex with IBIS… I’d totally ‘shut up and take my money!’.
Gianluca
10 months ago |With e-mount, there’s no need to buy another adapter than the current one.
obican
10 months ago |What if they just put the 36MP sensor in?
Put a normal NEX lens, it’s a 16MP sensor, just like 5N
Put a FF lens, it’s a Leica killer. Or Nikon killer. Or Canon killer. That thing would slaughter anything you throw at it.
Robert Bell
10 months ago |Not until we see some decent lenses it won’t be.
obican
10 months ago |The 36MP FF sensor depends on lenses less than NEX 7′s 24MP APS-C. It’s actually from the same wafer as the NEX 5N’s wonderful 16MP sensor, just cut a bit larger.
Robert Bell
10 months ago |As much as it doesn’t make since to some here I think they will make another lens system. They have an opportunity to make a success in a sector they have only one competitor in being the leica.
Boooe
10 months ago |Are to going to attach 1.5 teleconterter to E-mount lenses? No way…
Dave
10 months ago |It is mad at Sony ? ?
still producing new models but lenses nowhere ….
I got to break the bottle and shoot through the bottom ? ?
svyatoslav
10 months ago |Admin, спасибо за информацию. Давно жду такую камеру. Каким может быть первый объектив на FF Nex?
Helge Hackbarth
10 months ago |I definitely would love to use my Leica, Voigtlander, Zeiss and SLR Magic M-mount lenses on a fullframe 36MP NEX as well as some nice new AF capable FF E-mount lenses. The limitations of Leica M9 (and propably M10 as well) are too frustrating and the mirror-FF cams look like dinos already today.
MJr
10 months ago |Sony, give us lenses ! (with it)
NEXfive
10 months ago |I don’t care about lenses & whiners. Sony’s has got the leading sensor technology, they’ve got awesome bodies inside the top league, but they’ll never reach the top when it comes to lenses – they’re an innovative technical company and not into traditional craftsmanship.
After Nikon & Canon both failed with their mirrorless cameras to make me and a lot of others buy from their huge lens ranges, the market for a full frame mirrorless camera, where users can attach whatever lens one might like, is free for Sony and they’re willing to take it.
I’m damn happy about that move. And I don’t care about those brand addicted collectors without inspiration who will whine for lenses until Sony simply sells their current A-Mount full frames with E-Mount, since I’ve got enough manual full frame lenses already to be extremely excited about a full frame NEX…
István Gábor Takács
10 months ago |+1
Moofy
10 months ago |Brillant, love it!
chris89
10 months ago |using hybrid alpha E mount?
James
10 months ago |Sony needs to clothe (endow with a certain quality) and feed (number of offerings) its current children (the A and E series) before conceiving another child and letting its adopters go without. There is insufficient reason the NEX 3 and 5 series cameras do not have the similar control dials given only to the 7 NEX series, and Sony never should have installed a different software interface when the A mount software was great (as they are now switching back while not offering the NEX 5N a software upgrade (change) to the original interface. I have an A900 and should have been able to enjoy the same interface with the 5N. A lens offering example: the 70-400mm G Lens is a fantastic piece of glass and Sony is going to replace it before giving the NEX system anything comparable, why? To weather seal it, when that should have been in the original design in the first place, along with all the Zeiss offerings and other G series glass. Sony has missed the opportunity to be all (or at least sufficiently) encompassing out of the gate in most instances since the introduction of the A700 (high ISO performance lacking), are slow with software updates (until the A77 but still with the A900) along with their aforementioned schizophrenic offering of the original NEX software, that, btw, is impossible to imagine received passing grades during the testing phase. I love my A900 and 5N, but would prefer Sony offer a Zeiss 24-70mm equivalent zoom and 85mm and 135mm OSS Zeiss equivalents for the 5N before going to an NEX full frame with limited lens offerings for a 2+ year period of time, while still offering no further professional type glass for the NEX series besides what is currently offered with the 24mm, and further updating the 300mm A mount lens that I am sure is purchased by a limited number of professionals. I doubt the rumored pancake zoom with a less than appealing f stop range similar to the kit lens will suffice as a walk around solution a Zeiss zoom would, not to mention the excitement it would bring to those of us who stick with Sony through their inability to get the vision of a complete system or systems. Sony further has better glass for the full frame A mount system but has focused since the entry of the A900 on the smaller sensor cameras, again why? The a99 has been rumored for development and release for how long now? And before it is released they are now going to leak releasing yet another system that may cut into sales of the A99 before it is released. Sony get me a Zeiss zoom and some Zeiss primes for my 5N, please. And work on weather sealing everything you are now and in the future developing, I mean how can that even be a debate in today’s world.
Sahaja
10 months ago |This won’t be released before the A99. I expect they will show some kind of mockup or prototype at Photokina and release it sometime next year.
If the on sensor PD AF in the NEX cameras is good enough, it could kill the need for an SLT mirror.
roger48
10 months ago |Unreadable, try paragraphs!
john
10 months ago |@James
World’s longest sentence.
Shah
10 months ago |Yesterday when you wrote “a huuuuge rumor is coming up”, I was dreaming of the FF-NEX.
I really hope Sony will produce it.
Mistral75
10 months ago |At Photokina 2010, Paul Genge of Sony UK said it was possible to create a full frame NEX, using the same mount and the A-mount adaptor, but never the same lenses as the APS-C NEX. The mount had been designed to allow this and it might one day happen, in which case full-frame adapted Leica lenses (and so on) would be even more useful.
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2010/09/23/nex-firmware-update-details-in-full/
admin
10 months ago |Thanks Mistral!
ageha
10 months ago |Paul said that, not Sony.
Mistral75
10 months ago |Corporations don’t talk; people do.
Paul Genge has worked for six and a half years at Sony UK. At that time (September 2010), he was “Technical Field Sales Manager” (he has been promoted since). As a Sony (UK) representative, he was giving an interview to British photo magazines in the framework of Photokina 2010.
So, even if Sony Corp. did not say that, Sony UK did.
Sahaja
10 months ago |Will this be E-mount, a modified E-mount – or a new lens mount?
If the put the PD AF on the sensor that they use in this camera, and smart enough electronics, they could even make it possible to enable adapters for Nikon or Canon lenses (as well as A-mount) with full aperture and AF functionality. Will they be smart enough to do that? It would attract a lot of Nikon and Canon users if they did.
I wonder if Fuji will respond with a full-frame XPro?
documensony
10 months ago |“I wonder if Fuji will respond with a full-frame XPro?”
No doubt about it IMO.
Sahaja
10 months ago |Then maybe Nikon with a digital SP too….
Daemonius
10 months ago |If it happens, it will sale like hot cakes.. And Sony will own market, really fast.
matt
10 months ago |yeah yeah yeah, more bitching about the lack of Sony lenses, did any of you geniuses ever consider that the delay in new lenses is to do with NEX going FF? it isn’t like Sony woke up today and decided they would create a FF nex.
Pebble
10 months ago |Finally one who got it! Then you also know there will be no A99 at Photokina because of this?
Sahaja
10 months ago |Well, lets hope the lack of serious E-mount lenses has been due to this forth coming full frame NEX.
Has anyone checked to see if any of the existing E-mount lenses have a big enough image circle to cover full-frame properly at all apertures?
Of course, for APS-C NEX cameras at the wider end you will still need lenses like the 11-18 zoom.
commsbloke
10 months ago |Now that Sony have the phase detect pixels on-sensor I guess that there is no need for the pellicule mirror.
Sahaja
10 months ago |+1
Maybe they can make A-mount cameras with some kind of hybrid viewfinder. OVF + EVF with the mirror locked up.
redfern
10 months ago |Even if Sony does nothing more than stick a FF sensor inside a body like the NEX-7, this is a huge step forward. You will still be able to use native E-mount lenses with APS-C crop on the new camera (for when you need something more compact), or attach something like an LA-EA3 adapter with a new FF-covering translucent mirror for when you want to use Alpha lenses. Result? Sony doesn’t need to create a new mount with special lenses. They only have to keep building the two lines they have, which can both be mounted to full effect on this one camera. It’s effectively the hybrid we were talking about.
PLUS, you can now get the full advantage of adapted manual lenses (like my Rokkor 50/1.2 — woot!). This is win/win/win.
Let’s face it: even if they made FF NEX-specific lenses, they would be enormous. So what’s the point? Use the Alpha lenses on it since you’re going to lose the size advantage anyway, and when you want compactness go back to APS-C E-mount lenses. I love this idea.
admin
10 months ago |You got it right Redfern!
redfern
10 months ago |Thanks for the great work you do here, Andrea! This news just made my morning.
E
10 months ago |Admin, Can you tell from the information you have if this is a feasibility study/prestudy, or an actual development project (that may, or may not materialize)?
/E
LifeStoryImages.com
10 months ago |Seems worth re-summarizing my previous analysis of E-Mount + FF compatibility: (Applies with the A-Mount adaptor or to straight FF E-mount lenses.)
The E-Mount aperture is 46.1mm, which leaves 1.41mm between the corner of a FF sensor and the flange edge. Since the flange is 18mm from the image plane (vs. 44.5mm for A), there is definite vignetting potential of the very corner of a FF sensor at faster f/# (say <f/4). Vignetting also depends on the incident angle of the chief ray at the corner, which varies from lens to lens. Normal incidence (e.g., telecentric lenses) is better for light absorption in sensors, but "FF E-mount lenses" could certainly be designed away from that.
zane
10 months ago |+1…now if there was also IBIS then this would simply be “perfect”. You can’t tell me Sony are unable to add it considering that Olympus have it in their smaller m43 cameras.
Miroslav
10 months ago |So is A99 really a NEX with adapter?
documensony
10 months ago |The big question … I have been asking myself the same thing …
Torsten Bronger
10 months ago |I don’t think that he got it right.
It is a poor compromise in my opinion because it smells like a provisional solution for a high price. Especially wide-angle FF lenses would be *much* bigger than they needed to be with a dedicated FF mirrorless mount.
redfern
10 months ago |I totally see what you’re saying here and with your post above, Torsten, but unfortunately I think it’s too late for Sony to turn back. What they probably should have done from the beginning with the E-mount is make a deeper flange distance so they could accommodate smaller lenses (both APS-C and eventually FF). Yes, the body wouldn’t be as compact, but you would make up for that in the camera bag with smaller lenses.
However, addressing that point now would mean making yet a third mount just for the FF NEX. Sony can barely support the mounts it’s got — is adding a third one really a good idea? And what of market confusion? They couldn’t call the new one an E-mount also, right?
All I’m saying is that this is the most elegant solution to the problem they’ve created: it merges the camera lines and provides relative compactness when you want it and FF coverage when you need it. And it has the added benefit of not interfering with using classic adapted lenses, which many of us have come to quite enjoy. This only makes that experience better.
It’s not perfect, no, but I think it’s the best Sony could do at present, and it’s still a step forward.
Torsten Bronger
10 months ago |I agree, but a mount is something for years, mostly even decades. So it should be done right. And they will have to make a new line of lenses anyway. I think designing a new mount is negligible compared to desining new lenses.
The only drawback is that old E-mount lenses cannot be used with the FF camera. But you would not have FF anyway with these lenses. And, that’s the same with Canon’s EF-S. I think too large lenses for good would be a bigger prize to pay.
E
10 months ago |To make an historical analogy
“What they probably should have done from the beginning with the E-mount is make a deeper flange distance so they could accommodate smaller lenses (both APS-C and eventually FF). Yes, the body wouldn’t be as compact, but you would make up for that in the camera bag with smaller lenses.”
They may have actually learnt from the VHS – Betamax loss.
Short term wins gives you the possibility to ponder about the consequences for the long term. Short term losses may mean that you never get that chance.
- Adding flange distance from the start may have inhibited a lot of mount-adapters, and that would have prevented the success.
/E
Maxwell
10 months ago |Redfern, I believe small lenses could be made using collapsible design.
And maybe you can design a curved sensor, or using micro lenses
or what they call it. Time will tell.
redfern
10 months ago |Yep, anything’s possible! But collapsible FF lenses? That’s a tall order. Like you said, time will tell. All I know is that I’m excited to see what Sony comes up with next. Even if I don’t always like what they come up with, they are always on the move.
Sahaja
10 months ago |Curved sensors? – think about it, just how are you going to fabricate wafers for those cost effectively? (especially full frame)
exm3racer
10 months ago |Interesting idea indeed. I think this makes a lot of sense, even if it’s not exactly ideal. (FF E-mount lenses would be smaller).
So in summary, if we are looking to buy A-mount lenses today, it would be smart to go for the FF ones to take advantage of the future LA-EA3 adapter
And it would now give me a “normal” FOV for my Canon FD 1.4 SSC!
They could do all this and even still come out with future E-mount lenses that would be “more” FF compatible.
exm3racer
10 months ago |So do we think the FF sensor will have on sensor PDAF or will LA-EA3 adapter have a translucent mirror? Or both? This is getting interesting!
redfern
10 months ago |I think it depends on how well the on-sensor PDAF performs in the NEX-5R and NEX-6. If it functions as well as a dedicated PDAF sensor block (it could happen — who knows?) then I’d expect the LA-EA3 to be a simple pass-through with a motor drive. This would be ideal for removing the mirror from the equation entirely. If not, then I’d expect the LA-EA3 to have a FF-sized translucent mirror.
Sony has until 2013 to get this sorted and evaluate the on-sensor PDAF performance in the field and user satisfaction before committing one way or another in the FF NEX. Let’s keep our fingers crossed!
documensony
10 months ago |“… use native E-mount lenses with APS-C crop on the new camera (for when you need something more compact), or attach something like an LA-EA3 adapter with a new FF-covering translucent mirror for when you want to use Alpha lenses.”
If AF can be measured directly from the sensor, no mirror might be needed at all. The only purpose of a translucent mirror is for AF-measurement.
redfern
10 months ago |Yep, agreed. See my comment right above yours. I think it really depends how PDAF on sensor performs in the upcoming NEXs. That will probably determine its fate in the FF NEX.
rob
10 months ago |Good analysis.
And if they use PDAF on sensor, that will eliminate the need for SLT adapters. Straight barrel like EA1 adapter is all that’s needed.
It’s not the best solution for FF mirrorless, but it might be the best FF mirrorless solution for A-mount users.
sold
10 months ago |If this were true, I’d expect of course much bigger, heavier, significantly more expensive, longer flange distance… but boy, what a treat. I’m no market researcher, but I’d expect this would be quite a treat for quite a few people.
roger48
10 months ago |I think you mean for a few people.
E
10 months ago |In all its greatness, I agree, this will never outsell the iPhone5 as a camera.
Rigthfully appreciated by some, but for most, not a necessity.
Hendrick
10 months ago |Andrea,
“But this may be the first time I believe Sony could seriously compete against Nikon and Canon and Leica in the Full Frame world. Canon C300? Nikon D800? Leica M9? Hmmm, Sony may (very) slowly catch them all ”
I thought the A850/900, and now the A99 would be the serious competition against D800 and 5D3. Does this mean that a FF NEX would indicate the drop in seriousness from A99 and A mount as a whole? Why would not A99 be ‘a serious’ competitor? I am guessing you know something we do not, as if Sony plans to ditch the A mount in the future.
A statement like this casts shadow in the way Sony may plan to do things, or the perception we can get from a supposed Sony strategy after FF NEX, if possible.
neo
10 months ago |Personally, i don’t like mirrors in cameras and specially even that 35mm full frame sensor is tiny corresponding to that huge full frame body and yes fixed focal length lenses looks funny on that type of body for sure. Zooms are not any quality lens. So Sony nex full frame is the future. It takes time to defeat a conservative establishment but SONY seems to conquer it intelligently and to everyones surprise in a short time. RX100 is already killing the sales of entry level reflex mirror cameras. Recent data shows that. Third generation of peoples seems to totally discard traditional professionalism. The future lies on technology …. say like… wi-fi, gps, touch screen, portable form factor and custom independent application to operate a camera boby like in rumored ‘NEX-6′. I sense SONY in near future will rule the camera and the related sector. I see Sony and Panasonic emerging as top duos in camera manufacturers in very near future.
Why i said so? … can u imagine the same 30fps in 1080p for more than 3 years that they are still carrying as top video features in a dslr?
RX100 has already demolished them all now think about NEX6 and NEX9 (full frame) … where are we heading to…. ?
Zazamiii
10 months ago |Andrea,
The sensor of the Canon C300 is not full frame… only 24.6 x 13.8mm.
bruceramage
10 months ago |Thanks for the opportunity to donate. What percentage of the donation by visa actually makes it to you?
admin
10 months ago |I don’t know that. Donations are now up to 155 Euro. Thanks! Will remove the button if it reaches the 450 Euro mark.
Greenieadi
10 months ago |The question we should ask:
Will Sony create a FF E-mount lens. If so, why create 4 types of lens range.
1. FF A-mount lenses, can be use on E-mount body via adapters
2. APSC A-mount lenses, can be use on E-mount body via adapters
3. APSC E-mount lenses, use on e-mount bodies only
4. FF E-mount lenses
Only the first 2 can be used for cross-platform mount.
I now beginning to feel FF NEX is not necessary.
I remember NEX system is about size. FF lens will make it bulky on the lens end.
NEXfive
10 months ago |After these masses of excited comments you’re feeling, a “FF NEX is not necessary”? Whow, you don’t have a clue what people are doing with such a camera, do you?
Sony does not need to sell any lens together with their Full Frame NEX, since it will have phase detection on it’s sensor and might come with a LA-EA1 adapter or possibly EA3 simply passing through the contacts. Maybe there will be a standard kit pancake, but a Full Frame NEX would be made more to attach existing lenses anyway.
I’m having here an old Canon FD 85mm 1:1.2L from the 80′s, but sells theses days on eBay for similar prices I paid then. It’s kind of bulky with a NEX and APS-C is definitely a waste of image circle. Just to continue working with this lens I would buy a Full Frame NEX. But imagining the idea of a Full Frame NEX also used for video gets even better, because this would be the ultimate camera for video & photography finally growing together…
redfern
10 months ago |That’s the right idea, NEXfive. I had a chance to buy a Canon FD 85/1.2 for $500 a few months back but was strapped for cash and didn’t pull the trigger. Now I’m wishing I had! If people are smart they’ll start snapping these lenses up now.
NEXfive
10 months ago |Yeah, sorry you’re feeling sad about exactly the same that totally excites me.
All these old manual lenses have increased a lot already within the past few years and I guess this will continue. Full Frame will make a huge difference for the 85mm 1:1.2L without the crop factor. It becomes the perfect portrait lens again instead of 50mm now, which is also great, because unfortunately it often shows masses of purple fringing and therefore sometimes isn’t that useful cropped as standard telephoto lens. Also I’m hoping Sony will give their Full Frame NEX In-Body-Stabilisation – something like OM-D would be great, since Sony will not sell this camera cheaply anyway…
Greenieadi
10 months ago |NEXfive,
I know what I’m talking about as I own and use my NEX-3 + LAEA2 + Sigma 400mm F5.6 APO Macro or 70-300G at times.
Do you know how big that rig is?
Which Nex body and cam you use? Don’t get too excited by the FF sensor rumor thingie too early.
With the above rig, I can imagine how big such FF rig could be too.
Anyway my comment on it not being necessary is for me to own, not saying it’s not necessary for others.
Sony can invent what they like, nothing I or others say can stop them.
Hope you know what you are talking.
NEXfive
10 months ago |Yes, I know how big such combinations are, since I’m also using an old Canon FD 500mm 1:8 Reflex and a 300mm 1:5.6 plus Extender to make them 600mm & 1000mm and nevertheless their massive weights and dimensions I’d already bought faster long telephoto lenses if they weren’t that expensive. A NEX isn’t more than a rear cap to these lenses, but when walking around with that and a tripod of course, it will be quite an advantage to have a full frame sensor instead of APS-C only, yeah…
Walter Knapp
10 months ago |So where is the 600mm NEX FF lens? Or even the much shorter 70-400G?
WM
10 months ago |They’re right in front of your eyes
Sahaja
10 months ago |Sony started out as an electronics company – and they are good at making electronics (including image sensors).
Other camera companies started out making optics – and they are good at making lenses.
The good thing about this camera is that you will be able to adapt their lenses to Sony electronics.
Si
10 months ago |Walter you need to get out more often.
Si
Sahaja
10 months ago |Walter
Think of this as a digital back. Put a focusing rail and bellows in front of it and it may be great for your macro work.
Vladimir
10 months ago |I waited for two years! Thank God!
Keith
10 months ago |Imagine if it had the D800 sensor in it!!!!!!
Tom
10 months ago |And imagine it has no left focus point problem!
SCNR
Charlie 300
10 months ago |The C300 is not Canon’s flagship photography camera, nor is it full-frame. You should perhaps mention the 5D Mark III or 1D x instead.
matgay
10 months ago |“…is a rumor based on mysterious sources and NON-facts” = SR5?
i don’t get it
Sahaja
10 months ago |Perhaps the rumor came from the mistress of the head of Sony Imaging
mark
10 months ago |I’ll explain it to you then. Andrea doesn’t take responsibility for your decisions based on rumors. Got it?
Kirk fuk
10 months ago |Why even bother rate the rumors at all then? Get it now?
admin
10 months ago |There are two apsects:
1) My rumor rating based on my perosnal experience with sources.
2) The general concept of rumor (news based on non proven info).
Got it?
Tom S
10 months ago |If they build in IBIS, this could be my next NEX
T
10 months ago |I can’t wait to buy one!
Pedro Souza
10 months ago |keep in mind that sony is a badass sensor producer. both leica (with his x1 with small sensor) and nikon used them for a while (d800 has a sony-made FF, as you all know). That being said, I have high expectations about this new announcement.
about the lenses: I guess the nex system had just started to attract pro photographers who demand high quality glass. it has been less than a year since the whole nex thing became part of many m9, 5d or d700/800 users’ gear. sony took a shot in the dark. and it worked! so we might expect new high end lenses coming out in a nearby future, now that both sony and third part manufacturers are paying attention. the leap towards mirrorless FF proves it big time. So, yeah, zeiss will certainly bring some new primes to e-mount. as well as voigtlander, SK and others.
But I still don’t understand why is it so important to have a whole lineup made only by native e-mount lenses. buy some good M-mount or contax-g adapter and you will have some absurd quality legacy lenses. even contemporary lenses, such as the elmar 50/2,8 or the summicron V5. and this, plus the peaking function, is something every nex user should experiment. leitz glass on a FF nex will be mindblowing. especially if sony manages to fix the CA+soft borders issue on double-gauss symmetric design wide angle rangefinder lenses. I have the first nex-5 and will buy the nex-7 now. but it served me well for street shooting using an old summaron with hiperbolic focus at f.16 or f.11 all the time. leave alone someone using a full frame nex with a brand new 21, 28 or 35 ASPH.
Auto focus is important, yes! really important. I can’t assume everyone will use a mirrorless for street photography and street photography only. so, this is only my opinion based on experiences I had in my field. but I don’t ignore other photographers’ needs. and for those who want awesome glass + phase detection speed focus, I honestly believe the nex system is becoming way more complete, quality-wise, and we won’t need to wait that much.
m4/3 is good, but its 2X crop factor just doesn’t work for me. I have zeiss, angenieux and leica stuff that would be useless with their focal length being twice the one in a 35mm equivalent. so these cameras work as islands. you are limited to a few good lenses, but that’s all.
the aps-c sensor is good enough for many people (even pros), but sony has to improve it anyways (there are flaws like the unnecessary 24mp – in MY opinion – and the issue with some legacy lenses). so why not improve it in a legendary way?
Scott
10 months ago |FF NEX, Mid 60′s Leica lenses. Sign me up.
It doesn’t even have to have anything over 14mp. Just give me a chance to use any lens made through adaptors and Focus peaking on Full Frame.
Don’t need flashy 3d or pano or tilty screens.
sonyhemuda
10 months ago |There will be no slt ff after a99. Nex ff will be hybrid and called nex-a9 with 36mp nikonian sensor. It will be the flagship ff!!
One More Thought
10 months ago |sonyhemuda: if what you say is true, then that is fantastic!
SonyHemuda
10 months ago |That is why the SLT is going to be called a99
doug
10 months ago |Big fucking deal. Sony can’t even make a reasonably sized lens for the cropped sensor NEX line. Who the hell wants a tiny camera body, with even MORE gigantic FF lenses. Stupid rumor. And stupid idea.
Si
10 months ago |I have to agree unless there are a raft of new lenses we have not heard about.
What makes me laugh is that they are all cagey about their next SLT and yet they are happy to bang on about the FF NEX that does not have lenses to back it up.
I think SAR is playing a fools game.
Si
Arnold
10 months ago |And stupid comment.
T
10 months ago |You’re right. Leica and other FF rangefinder lenses are huge@!##!… oh wait. nm, you’re wrong. It’s amazing how many people are bitching about lack of native NEX lenses. You just don’t get it.
One More Thought
10 months ago |If true this will truly be revolutionary. We already know that Sony makes the best sensors. A FF Nex would undoubtedly have a better sensor than the next Leica, the M10, unless Sony makes that sensor for Leica as well.
The small body size would be an advantage over Nikon and Canon FF dslrs. And it would fit, with adaptors, pretty much any lens out there. Imagine a Sony sensor Nex used with a Leica lens…image heaven.
A small FF body with an incredible Sony sensor: this will make waves and sell like hotcakes (to use a bunch of cliches in one sentence!).
If Sony keeps this innovation up, and doesn’t ruin it by getting into too many tangents that gimmicks that make it too confusing to the consumer, then they will be THE photographic company for the first half of the 21st century.
patient fencesitter
10 months ago |I was actually hoping Sony would stick with the evolution they had going on the NEX series. I have patiently waited since Panasonic first started making mirrorless cams for them to make something I thought could be a good replacement for my old SLR but with less bulk. After reading recently about the NEX 7 and NEX 5n with the ability to mount phase detect autofocus via LA-EA2, I started thinking I might jump aboard. I hope the NEX 5R is NOT FF. I want a compact companion camera for hikes and stuff, that I can still put lots of accessories on and have lots of manual control. I actually want to see them develop the lenses more on both fronts. Small pancake primes and retractable zooms for the compactness, and f2.8 zooms and f1.8+ primes for the best quality. The NEX 7 looks really good to me, but I liked the look of the NEX 5N even more. If I could pick and choose I would like a NEX 5n with pop-up flash and flip screen, like the F3, and a couple control wheels like the NEX 7. Also a better menu system. I hope the new 5R is something like this, and the compact zoom really is compact. That may entice me to finally buy.
Doug Frost
10 months ago |If I can use my FF Zeiss glass with it, I’m buying it. Period.
Krasse
10 months ago |Sounds like you’re waiting for the same NEX 6 as I am.
Nex 7′s tri-nav, flip-screen, built-in flash in a size in between Nex7 and Nex5…
An all electronic shutter would really be a nice bonus too…
Miroslav
10 months ago |Excellent news. If it has IBIS (SSS), I’m interested.
Danonino
10 months ago |If it has electronic shutter – absolutely silent shooting – I am ALL IN without hesitation! OH GOD(sony) F*CKING PLEEAASE!!
jon
10 months ago |what u shooting up the skirt???
zane
10 months ago |nice one jon…how about an invisibility cloak to go with that silent camera!!
david blanchard
10 months ago |I would love to see a leica x2 or x100 Alternative.
lol
10 months ago |yeah and my squirrel can fly… try to shoot with a ff nex at the olympic.. maybe with focus peaking —->
ahahaha! I must follow rss? buy a canon and you can shut down this rum site
spaceman
10 months ago |Was it NEXfive and redfern who mentioned this? That all current NEX lenses will be used in crop mode on the rumored NEX FF. FF lenses such as the A-mount Zeiss lenses etc can be mounted via the EA1 and a potentially new EA3 adapter (bigger mirror to cover the FF area than the EA2). This goes hand in hand with the hybrid mount rumor. The only downside using the full sensor of the NEX FF will be size, but it will still be smaller than all current FF SLRs.
I DIG THAT APPROACH!!! Using the Leica M-adapter on a FF NEX will be out of this world!
NEXfive
10 months ago |Hey, I didn’t thought about that former hybrid rumour when I imagined an LA-EA3 adapter, but you’re right, this could be the fulfilment of this rumour here: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/rumor-roundup-fixed-lens-aps-c-camera-to-be-announced-in-summer-hybrid-e-a-mount-cam-in-2013/ & http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-a-possible-protoype-rumor-list-36-mpx-cam-pro-nex-hybrid-videocamera-400mm-lens/
Sahaja
10 months ago |If they have on sensor PD-AF, like the NEX 6, you won’t need an SLT mirror in the adapter.
REVENGE
10 months ago |HOOOOLY SHIIIIT shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit
Sebulba
10 months ago |Too bad they can’t make good e-mount lens : /
By good I mean sharp, and COMPACT.
No use to have a NEX if you have to use it with huge lenses like DSLR ones…
poke
10 months ago |Gee, I thought there would be more interest in a FF mirror-less camera.!
Manel
10 months ago |Mirrorless FF with A-mount, kills most of SLT FF. Neither Nikon or Canon are trying to do so for the moment. Leica makes M9 and the next step there is R2 medium format. As the sensors and process speeds are growing, and if Sony goes FF in mirrorless, the SLT’s way is MEDIUM FORMAT FOR CONSUMERS. There is the revollution that you are looking for.
Zony
10 months ago |Damn, just the news we have been asking for 2 years. I know Andrea had some rumors a while back about a camera that could handle both A mount and E mount lenses.
SR5 is exciting!
Tsu Taka
10 months ago |I just got off the phone with an Alpha tech and he denied the full frame rumor. The tech said there’s no plan for a full frame sensor for their NEX line, and are focused on the APS-C sensor for the NEX system. Maybe he wasn’t aware of this? Maybe it was to avoid acknowledging this “rumor” and making it public?
Sahaja
10 months ago |If thy have been trying to keep this camera secret Sony are unlikely to have told ordinary technicians about this