Still working on the NEX FF rumor…
I am working on a triple front. The NEX cameras and lens rumors, the SLT cameras and lens rumors and the new Full Frame Mirrorless system. I already shared you some info about the first two fronts. The NEX-7m, the new Zeiss premium zoom and on the SLT front I told you about the four new A mount lenses and new entry level SLT that will arrive within the next few months.
And now the NEX FF: There is no news yet. I have been told Sony still has not decided the exact time frame for the official release. It all depends from the ongoing testing work. They are now testing two prototypes, one with 24Megapixel and one with 30-32 Megapixel sensor. Both sensors have new features and phase detection pixels on sensor. The AF performance is one of the key technologies Sony want to improve. The tested sensors are part of a new generation of Sony sensors. I have no info yet if the 30-32 Megapixel sensor will be used by Sony exclusively or shared with Nikon. Also the viewfinder tech is being elaborated and will be different from what we have seen until now. Anyway, not much news yet but I guess that soon Sony will decide how the final NEX FF should be. And by than I hope I can share you some bits about it!
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Lucky Truong
5 months ago |A FF Nex and a zeiss 35 1.4 ZM mount is what I am dreaming about. Keeping my finger crossed
.
Jerry_R`
5 months ago |Yes! And f/1.4 – not f/1.8, not f/2.
Otherwise – just give us FF EVIL, that will accept M lenses.
Waiting, waiting, waiting!
Don Cox
5 months ago |Although waiting is tiresome, I would rather Sony take their time and get everything right. There should be plenty of testing by experienced photographers (people with thirty years experience).
The aim should be to avoid problems like the too-easily-pressed video button, or the dreadful menus (with blunders such as not being able to use Remote Control with HDR or HHT), or the video clicks in the 5N. All of these would have been noticed with thorough testing and should have been fixed before going into production.
The sensor needs to be tested with wide angle rangefinder lenses.
There is no great rush to get a FF NEX to market. It is not a holidays or Christmas consumer camera.
Vlad3D
5 months ago |>> The aim should be to avoid problems like the too-easily-pressed video button
Video button on NEX-6 is already too difficult to press, so there is nothing to improve here
Zoltan
5 months ago |I have only once pressed the video button accidentally on my NEX-7 in the one month I have owned it.
Joe
5 months ago |As exciting as an E-mount FF sounds, I still long for more unique-to-Sony A-mount lens selections. And I don’t mean made-to-order lenses whose prices rival small automobiles. I’m talking $500-$2000. As much as I’d love a 500mm f/2.8, I don’t have Mercedes/BMW money to spend on such a thing. Maybe do a 85mm f/2 [T4.5] STF. Or maybe just brighten the current selection. I’d love to see the 24-70 f/2.8 Z become a 24-70 f/2.
SonyCyberPunk
5 months ago |24-70 f2? man..that is ridiculous
Ago
5 months ago |Yep, a 24-70 f/2 would be huge (to say the least). I’d rather take a 24-120 f/4
Joe
5 months ago |I could care less! I just want something that’s not a refurb of an existing lens (50 1.4 or 300 2.8) and something that’s not a miniature telescope with a BMW cost (500 4.0, 300 2.8 II). I want something new. When was the last time Sony introduced something new and unique in the lens arena? 138 1.8? 135 STF is a Minolta refurb. I could see an argument for 16-50 2.8 as a kit lens. But everything else is something we can already get or something Canon or Nikon already has. 24-70 2.0 would be absolutely ridiculous. It would require an obscenely large front element. But it would show me Sony can do something other than copy someone else’s ideas when it comes to lenses.
Vlad
5 months ago |When was the last time Sony introduced an interesting lens? SEL1018 and SEL3518. I would like you to see replacing those with anything that Canon, Nikon or pretty much any other system has.
windrincar
5 months ago |If that STF lens becomes a reality, that would be nice
Tom Fleming
5 months ago |The Minolta STF is still available used. If you want cream in you bokeh, that is still the ticket.
Michele
5 months ago |The 135STF is still on the market as new: still listed at Sony and other sites…
Ottawa Wedding Photographers
5 months ago |I also, am a member of the camp that would like to see some more A-Mount lenses. My wish list includes…
20mm f/1.4 Zeiss SSM (if Sigma can do a 1.8 20mm, I’m not sure why Zeiss can’t… And make it much BETTER)
35mm f/1.4 Zeiss SSM (with better bokeh AND better sharpness than the new Sigma)
50mm f/1.4 Zeiss SSM (which is of course rumored to be coming soon, so I really hope it does)
I’d also like to see the 85mm f/1.4 Zeiss get updated to have SSM, but I personally wouldn’t sell mine and upgrade. I just think that the company should put SSM into ALL their currently offered professional lenses.
You know… Like Minolta probably had plans to do and just never got the chance to implement across their product line.
Juan
5 months ago |I hope the definitive FF NEX sensor won’t have more than 24mp. I think 24 it’s more than enough and sensor performance will benefit of no increase the pixel count.
We will benefit too not having to manage huge RAW files. I own the NEX-7 and be sure, 24mp is enough to have amazing detail or do big crops if you need to.
SonyCyberPunk
5 months ago |this is the bit i dont get, whats the problem with 36mp files?i mean if you can afford FF,expensive lenses, why cant you afford on a higher spec PC??
Juan
5 months ago |The point here is what you REALLY need.
Why do you need 30-36 MP?
Don Cox
5 months ago |One job that requires high resolution is photographing large paintings, while keeping the fine detail of brush textures.
Another is digitising Kodachrome slides.
It would also be useful to be able to use a NEX on a copy stand for some of the jobs that are currently done with a scanner. Scanners give good quality but they are desperately slow and forever “warming up”.
Ideally, it would be a 32 Megapixel multilayer sensor. Yes, that is a lot of data by historical standards, and it will need fast chips in the camera. But with two-terabyte drives costing around one hundred pounds, storage is not a problem.
southbymidwest
5 months ago |The whole point of a FF NEX would be to reduce the size over current FF cameras like the D800. And by reducing the size/flange they will likely introduce image quality compromises over current FF cameras. The tasks you are talking about require studio lights and a tripod, have no size restrictions and demand best in class image quality. I have a feeling the FF NEX is not for you… get a D800 or ultra high res digital MF.
Vlad
5 months ago |I don’t see why reducing the size should mean reducing the IQ. That is certainly not the idea nor the actual result with the NEX system. And here’s another usage – landscape – which benefits from both lightweight equipment and high resolution. In any case, except storage space and computer speeds, I absolutely don’t see any negatives of having more MPs. So, I’d rather have them.
Ian
5 months ago |I agree, put the darn 36 mp sensor in there.
Don Cox
5 months ago |The whole point of a FF NEX is not to reduce the size, although that is nice, but to be able to use almost every lens ever made, and various items of special equipment, while getting the whole image area from lenses designed for full frame.
A Nikon D800, besides being a monster, is limited to Nikon lenses and accessories. I really have no use for these big cameras – what is really useful is a universal digital sensor back to record a wide variety of images.
Beachrider
5 months ago |It isn’t that we hate 36GB, we would rather get true 14-bit exposure depth, which is easier with less-megapixels/larger-pixel-sites. IMHO
Spuds
5 months ago |Simply being able to afford something doesn’t mean I want to spend that much money on something. I would prefer a 24mp FF with slightly larger pixels than the 36mp for better low light performance. I can get all the detail I need from 24mp, so more pixels doesn’t really do my any good. I don’t understand why they don’t just release a FF Nex like the VG900… no need to build special lenses, it could use the existing E-lenses and crop the sensor down or with an adapter use the A-mount and go full frame… If that solution was good enough for the FF camcorder at the moment why not give it to still photographers.
Crazydoctor
5 months ago |Because even with the fastest computer 36mpix is longer to process than 24mpix and when i already think 24 is too much for me i don t want more.
Ian
5 months ago |I am one of those that would like to see more than 24mp. I feel if they release a 24mp sensor ff nex it will do ok, but if they release a 32 or 36 size sensor they will have something that could bring fans of the other cameras
over to purchase it. I still shoot the occasional sheet of 4×5 and these 24mp files just are not that good for trying to produce a fine art photograph above 20×30 or maybe 24×36. Except for the d800 there is a real gap out there in between these ff dslrs at 24mp and the next choice being med format at a price that is just not possible for a lot of people, not to mention the weight and bulk of Hasselblad hd4d40 it’s unbelievable. Go ahead Sony squeeze in 32 or 36 mp into that nex and do something really special.
ArtoS
5 months ago |Hello Admin, have you any new info about new SAL 70-200/2.8 G II lens?
In Dyxum someone has info (got from Sony press meeting) that it has weather sealing and also new element design…
admin
5 months ago |Yep that lens is coming by mid 2013. Ypou may send me the link to Dyxum? I htink the guy is right
ArtoS
5 months ago |http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/getting-the-70200mm-28_topic94663.html
see 06:19
Thanks for the reply. From what i heard the new lens will features weather sealing and new element design
Vlad
5 months ago |New type of viewfinder? What could that be?
Rooru S.
5 months ago |Admin, quick question. The Sony G zoom is still on schedule or has it been replaced by the Sony-Zeiss zoom?
Vladimir
5 months ago |No need to AF!( Leica )
Andy Pandy
5 months ago |Do you know if the next generation sensors being tested are Bayer or Foveon or organic?
John Maverick
5 months ago |Let’s hope it will handle rangefinder wides well in the corners, since there’s a plentiful supply of these wonderful fullframe lenses available. Some statements by SONY exec’s indicate they might change the E-mount very slightly to enable them to cram a big telecentric rear corrective element up against the sensor similar to the geometry in the RX1. This is a common way for mirrorless systems to make lenses work well with digital sensors, and control moire, but it doesn’t guarantee that rangefinder and manual glass will also work. Anyway, thanks to Admin for all the work – it certainly makes this the most interesting place to get all the latest hot SONY gossip!!
Freddo
5 months ago |John, your question is interresting and kinda related to the question posted by Andy Pandy. If Sony work swiftly with the development of their new foveon-esque sensor, and manage to put it in this new FF NEX, it will not only be a fantastic technical feat, it would most likely solve a lot of the problems related to WA lenses on the NEX. A sensor of foveon type require a much simpler/thinner filter stack in front of it. This filter stack in combination with a weak microlens array is probably the reason why the NEX-7 struggles with some WA lenses.
John Maverick
5 months ago |hmmm, Interesting.. Foveon type being non-bayer definitely controls moire better, and that’s important for video which is SONY’s niche. It would also allow simplifying the filter stack, in turn allow high-incidence lenses (made by SONY or legacy) without smearing.
And Foveon ought to be better at controlling colour cross talk (purple-corners), because the colour channels are coincident in the same pixel well – even without strong microlenses.
The only inconsistency is that Phil Molyneux and Mark Weir have hinted at changing E-mount to accommodate image-space telecentric lenses. And this wouldn’t be needed if the above approach was taken – new wide lenses could just be symmetricals. Maybe they just want maximum flexibility of design?
Anyway as of now, I think I like the Foveon approach!
Joel Richards
5 months ago |Sony has patented several foveon “like” approaches in the past years and Luminous Landscape hinted that a company that manufacturer sensors AND cameras was coming out with foveon like camera in 2013 (which means really only Sony or Canon).
I’m personally skeptical, but if you look at the foveon X3 sensors one of the really cool features is that because there is no bayer pattern pixels can be effortless binned with no line skipping. That could be mean VERY sharp HD and possibly 4K video. If Sony sensor like this could make its way into a new line of pro video cameras as well (VG900 but geared toward the F55 crowd) and recoup the R&D without selling to third parties (Nikon, Olypmus, etc.)
Personally I hope for an NEX with a full-frame foveon-like sensor in a body only slightly bigger than the NEX-7 (or the same size) with an optional battery grip and FF-equivalent LAE2 adapter. With a solid battery grip the 7 platform would be just big enough for FF SLR lenses (except the monsters that always dwarf the camera). THAT would destroy the market. Especially if Sony makes the E-mount even more open and thus incentivizes 3rd party AF adapters for Nikon and Canon glass. Switch to NEX–keep your glass!
John Maverick
5 months ago |I was confident of good support for RF and SLR glass up until testing of the VG900 demonstrated very mediocre corner performance. It’s an asset for SONY to be able to rely upon this informed group of early adopters, ready and willing to adopt the camera and help spread awareness throughout the photography community. Much of the NEX’s early support when there were only 2 lenses came from this same base.
lionheart_se
5 months ago |Make the sensor 30x30mm and 30+ MP, it will go home well in the Blad community…
EnPassant
5 months ago |I’m all for a Full Frame NEX camera. This is the camera i have been waiting for to use with old legacy glass. Although I have my doubts it will work as well with rangefinder lenses as Leica M, that has a sensor especially made for their lenses, most SLR lenses should work just fine.
I do however hope Sony doesn’t make the body too small. A body intended to be used with adapted A-lenses need to be bigger to balance well. Something like Leica M size would be fine. A battery grip should also be available as an option.
What mount solution Sony will choose will also be interesting to see.
Will they simply use the narrow E-mount with its limitations for construction of smaller compact full frame lenses with wide rear elements.
or
Will Sony design a completely new wider mount with even shorter registration distance than E-mount for lenses especially made for use on the NEX FF and with adapters for both E- and A-mount?
Whatever, price will propably be close to A99. But I will most surely buy it anyway as the only alternative the new Leica M will cost more than twice as much.
AK-77
5 months ago |+1
what is the deal about the FF NEX? do you want a FF image quality with crappy handling? I do not. the price of FF NEX will surely be close/same as SLR-body camera AND the lenses will not be any smaller! why to sacrifice the form factor for usability?! just because we can???
Joel Richards
5 months ago |Sony does have their own X mount (or XF? I can’t remember exactly) that is uses on the F5 & F55 cameras. It has the same registration distance as the E-mount but a wider opening so it could theoretically adapt to the e-mount. It is a bit of a meta-mount. It has no native lenses, just adapters. Personally I think the e-mount is good enough except that it limits IBIS–something I’ve learned to live without.
Jim
5 months ago |What effect would going to FF have on existing E-Mount lenses; specifically crop factor?
Per K
5 months ago |This concept sounds really interesting. However the engineer in me sees several difficult hurdles in this project. Obviously a solution NOT producing exquisite image quality is totally un-interesting.
This camera will have the next generation of sensors and I see no reason it not be 36 mpix resolution. (Lower resolution like 24mpix can be an option.)
Owning a D800 I see huge advantage in higher resolutioon as I see the print as THE product of my photography. I want the best possible quality I can afford…. (Many say 24 mpix is enough, but enpough is not good enough for me!)
I would definitely invest in a FF “Leica look-alike” interchangeable lens camera. I expect current lenses not be good enough (= exquisite) and new lenses need to be developed that are optimized for this camera. It does not have to be many: two wides, normal, and portrait tele. Maybe a macro, maybe a HQ kit zoom.
Question
5 months ago |How does D800 perform at ISO6400?
Atlasman
5 months ago |I wish this new mirrorless FF will have the Olympus 5-axis IBIS.
Then it won’t be a problem to migrate existing A-mount customers. Then it won’t be a problem to migrate some Canon and Nikon customers.
Rob
5 months ago |A FF NEX could be just as important and make just as big of an impact to the video/filmmaking community as the GH2 and 5dmkII have been, if it’s done right. The flexibility of the short register distance E-mount along with a FF sensor could make it a great package. Not too concerned about megapixel count in the sensor, given HD footage is downscaled anyways, the 24mp sensor feed is probably slightly easier to downscale to HD and would be less noisy at high ISO.
Kiril
5 months ago |@Admin,
There was mention of 85/1.8 imminent release for NEX. Is this still relevant?
mando
5 months ago |once sony did the rx1, that were are going to be wanting an nex-ff – no way around it or to avoid it, that’s my next nex purchase, I’m happy with the nex-7
voyager42
5 months ago |I hope the NEX FF doesn’t suffer from the same design thinking as the a99. Sony were quoted as saying they couldn’t put the 36MP sensor in the a99 because the couldn’t get it to do all the video stuff they wanted!!!… So they “settled” for 24MP and came out with a hybrid camera!… I’m not sure this is the right way to think about this. I would have preferred the a99 with a 36MP sensor and be more “stills” oriented but it never happened. I’m still confused why Sony is so set on producing “hybrid” cameras.
I don’t suppose anyone will ever build a “Photography” camera any more!!!… They will all be hybrids and that is bound to compromise either stills or video…
It will be interesting to see what happens with the next FF SLT and the FF NEX…
OneTrackMind
5 months ago |I mentioned this in a another post, but I believe that Sony’s explanation for not using the 36MP sensor because of video was BS. I think it was a crafty way of avoiding the real answer which might have been Nikon.
I don’t think it would sound too good if they said ‘We couldn’t use the 36MP sensor because we signed an agreement with Nikon that gives them 12 month exclusivity on it – so we weren’t able to put in on the A99″ – instead they speak about ‘technical limitations’ that imply they’ve done you a ‘favor’ by giving you the best possible combination of photo and video together.
I have absolutely no proof of this – but I do believe the Nikon relationship is a profitable one for Sony – one that unfortunately probably dictates some of Sony’s roadmap and product introductions.
Zoltan
5 months ago |My thoughts exactly!
aardvark7
5 months ago |If Sony do produce a FF Nex, that supercedes any previous image quality and has better AF, it would kill the A99 sales stone dead and I can’t see them doing that.
To be honest, I’m delighted with the A99 but I would be tempted to switch again, but I just don’t think they could commit such commercial suicide.
The flipside of that is if Sony accepted a lower performance and I doubt a single customer would want that!
I think the most likely possibility is that Sony are considering unifying the Alpha and Nex ranges, optimising the good market position of the Nex which has been a real success, and going the next step in the technological evolution by dropping the mirror altogether. Should I be correct, it will likely only happen in another 12 months at best. That will allow time to develop the new camera, sell the A99 in sufficient numbers and not alienate existing users.
If it does happen, though, it might be like dropping a nuclear bomb into the industry as I think it will be a game-changer that could make the 5DMkIII and D800 look like antiques…
Joel Richards
5 months ago |I could see it coming close to AF speed but perhaps not flexibility and perhaps surpassing the A99 in quality. I think Sony has learned that it has to be bold and risk cannibalizing some of its own sales in order to win real market & mind share. It has to go where Nikon and Canon won’t because it cannot beat Canon and Nikon at their game. They are too entrenched. Look at Apple. It still trails Windows on the desktop but it made tablets cool and suddenly the desktop is becoming more and more niche.
Big SLRs are not going away but I believe Sony could make them a very niche product if they are bold enough with this product.
Headless
5 months ago |Agree, I really doubt that Sony or any company will develop a new model that will outperform its own “FLAGSHIP” model in a year. That is a brand name suicide. So, I think the coming mirrorless FF Nex will not be as good as A99 performance-wise. That’s also why the RX1 IQ is par to A99 with less function and no zoom lens or changeable lens. I could be wrong. Any businessman can chime in?
k.e. russell
5 months ago |Gamechanger? hmm…Full-frame nex? I dunno…for me a gamechanger would be
Sony putting an sCMOS imager into thier cameras like the one that’s in the BLACKMAGIC CINEMA CAMERA. On image quality, CCDs beat CMOS sensors like a
rented mule and CCDs have come a very long way in the ten years since they were commonly in cameras, sCMOS being an example. Only tech breakthroughs with CCDs can get me excited cause I’m over CMOS already, “would like some more moire, please?, and how a side-order of jaggies?”…there’s nuthin’ too exciting there, it’s just the same old stuff. Blackmagic Camera, here I come..! BTW, I thought we already had a Full-frame Nex…VG900, did I miss
something..?
Claire
5 months ago |AF is the biggest weakness of the NEX system at this point compared to m4/3, so Sony really needs to get FAST, reliable and usable AF, in all kinds of light. Next, the User Interface needs to be further improved. I really have no idea how pixel dense the FF should be, I’ll take what Sony gives me ! (certainly happy with the 7′s 24mp, more than plentiful for me). Give me snappy AF and I’ll forget my DSLR for good.
mastix
5 months ago |I agree with you. Having had the Nex 5N and now the Nex 7 I also think that AF speed and most important reliability is the biggest problem for the system right now. Going full frame and improving AF accuracy/speed would make my dream camera come true. Already like very much my NEX 7.
Wayne Summers
5 months ago |They should just come out with a low megapixel and high megapixel nex full frame. I think 18mp or even 20mp for the nex would be awesome and 36mp or even 40mp for the other nex would be great as different people require different things. Think how awesome a 18mp or 20mp ff nex would be for low light work. For all the people who don’t care much about low light they can get the 36/40mp ff nex if they need all that detail. We all know companies use us a beta testers and sony will come out with a million camera bodies so they might as well just do both, kinda like nex-6 and nex-7.
OneTrackMind
5 months ago |Andrea – can we get a little clarification…is this camera going to be a FF ‘NEX’ camera or a FF ‘E-mount’ camera.
I personally think there’s a HUGE difference between those two. One implies a derivative of the NEX form-factor/size/features. The other implies that it could be a larger (alpha-sized) body that happens to be native E-mount. Some might think it’s semantics, but I would be curious if the Sony team is calling it a NEX camera.
Imagine if the new camera is a slightly smaller A99 with 32MP FF E-mount mirrorless, with enhanced corner sharpness, includes IBIS, etc, etc. Now with the A99 dropping down in price over the next 12 months, this camera could slide into the price slot at $2700-2800 and become the new flagship model with a lot of lens possibilities via adapter rings. almost any lens and manufacturer would be available to us at that point
pre-order me one.
hardbonemac
5 months ago |HI! NICE 2013! hEALTH and fine rumorworks!
After working 3 days with a VG 900 i am abit… lost.
Is this the changinyear and SONY drops plenty much?
But NOT I CAN REALY USE?
I speake in the pricerange 500-3000 $
down a GO-PRO up the BMDC…
What kind of funny marketing will SONY bring us?
WHY NOT WORKING ON ONE SOLIDE CAMERA.
IF FILMCHIP is not workabel in PHOTOMODE so MAKE
the FILMVERSION…
Sice. I do not need a thin tampon because the nex(t) Photo/ Film
will be a NANOMAKRO so nO Place…and so on.
LOGICAl CLEAR MENUES AND BUTTONS.
PRO WORK STYLE
METALL not garbage plastique.
and so on.
If not somebody will built my CAM… what happens if it is a LEICA?
hm….
PLEASE NO MORE SHOWS THE REAL THING.
the trap is full-hd and 2k/ 4k-the last claim in 2013 for do something
in difference.
where is it? WHERE…… ( echo) EREHWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWww…
widegray
5 months ago |Mirrorless FF costing less then german one !!
Yes !!
why?
To have a pocket FF camera with my big, heavy and high quality lenses like my Hassy-Zeiss T* material to be fixed on the tripod using the adaptor.
I cannot wait for it.
Glen (a4jp.com)
4 months ago |Any news on the FF Nex? The best quality images I’ve seen so far come from a Nikon camera and as the Sony FF Nex will have a CCD similar to that. I can’t wait to see the picture quality when it comes out.
Leica makes nice cameras but they cost too much for me and the M 240 samples looked pretty average.
Glen (a4jp.com)