(UPDATED) POLL: Vote your future Sony FF must have features!
I spend a coupe of hours to organize the pol based on your suggestions I collected here: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/we-need-your-suggestions-for-the-next-sony-fullframe-cameras/.
UPDATE: I will keep the poll open until late Sunday.
Before you start to vote please read the introduction:
1) Please take time before to vote. Think!
2) There are 105 features/characteristics you can vote. But you can select a maximum of 20 options only! Please be aware of the cost of every feature. You have to willing to pay for what you ask!
3) The poll has no scientific value. It will only help to give us and Sony a general idea of what the people is looking for.
4) The percentage you see after each possible answers has to be understand like that. A percentage of 34% for example means that of all voters 34% voted that option.
5) If you want me to correct your voting contact me at sonyalpharumors@gmail.com
6) The poll will run for a couple of days.
7) After closing the poll I will analyze the results and try to get feedback from Sony.
Loading ...Now let’s vote! Invite your friends to vote. More we are more valuable the poll will become!
Mike
2 years ago |Contrast-based autofocus option is missing.
Mark D
2 years ago |+1
Anon
2 years ago |You’re kidding, right? I’m not going to spend time in my life reading through that list. Even entertainment has it’s limits of time-wasting.
Renato M.
2 years ago |I understand you, I stopped in the middle when I realized how long the options were… hahaha…
acolyte
2 years ago |Now you see why Sony has to sacrifice some options. If you are the designer reading through this list, would you try to account for every single suggestion?
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“SMALL TIDBITS: zebra stripes.” – what’s that? I hope it’s not an option like “deliver pink full frame camera” cause otherwise I’ll need to make a huge facepalm.
usch
2 years ago |http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_patterning
Sky_walker
2 years ago |mm…. sounds quite cool. It could work very well with SLT camera. Though for me the histogram is fine enough for most situations, even if it doesn’t help specifically with catching skin tones exposure right.
passer-by
2 years ago |Zebra peaking? Hahahaha
Nobodi
2 years ago |Could you include the following options:
(1) adjustable multidirectional (tiltable) EVF
(2) native all-speed flash synchronization
Carl
2 years ago |Number two would be the same as asking for a completely electronic shutter, I guess, as focal plane shutters are limited in how fast they can syncronise a flash.
thundersha
2 years ago |personally, i hope there will be a function can load the setting(Color Curves) of images(jpg) into all Alpha & NEX body!
just like the “Picture Control(nikon)” or “Picture Style(Canon)”.
Jay
2 years ago |Too many choices! LOL
pancanikonpus
2 years ago |Should correct the video spec to FHD 120fps, 720p 240fps, 640 400fps, etc. for typical video spec, is too lousy for a FF camera, or so call a next generation FF camera
Sky_walker
2 years ago |“MAIN TECHNOLOGY: DSRL” – it’s “DSLR”
you messed it a little bit 
AnYpHoTo
2 years ago |andrea, send it later on to Sony UK and Sony Japan and US – maybe it will give them some more of real “customer view” that they are looking for @ Sony UK.
also, if few days when the A77/65 is out to the public – do another poll for all the cons & pros that new owners will have – so maybe Sony will look and learn from A77/A65 owners feeling and findings. that can also influence the new FF road map for sure. tnx for all good work and enjoy your new NEX
monkeyfacemcbride
2 years ago |ok, please dont send this to Sony, you’ll get laughed at. “An app store”, is that serious? jeez, this is a pro level camera we’re talking about, you want facebook and angry birds buy an iphone.
Many of the options above are either duplicated (XDCAM 4:2:2 and 10bit video – same thing pretty much). Many are unneccessary and many dont fit the demographic (hackable firmware???? – does the phrase “warranty considerations” mean anything to people). if you want to be taken seriously think seriously, this is a flagship camera, top of the line. Its designed to appeal to the most photographic or videographic users, not gimmick fiends. to be worthy of this position you’re talking $3000+ so if you dont have the cash or intention of buying you really shouldn’t be voting. That may sound elitist but this thing should be a work tool, not a toy.
anyway, enough ranting.
ideally for me, I would like two cameras as follows:
A900 Mk2 – exactly as A900+ RRP $2000-$2500
NEX-5N sensor tech scaled up to FF (so 32Mpx..ish)
7-10fps – 30 raw frame buffer
Wifi
inbuilt wireless remote flash control
dual card slots
1080p50/60 video w/manual control
smoother shutter mechanism or electronic 1st curtain shutter
Conventional live-view and tiltable LCD
wider AF array
lens correction
and thats it everything else absolutely as per A900
A99: A77 body or similar RRP $3000
NEX-5N sensor tech scaled to FF *(32MPX) + 2×2 pixel binning
15 FPS burst mode – 45 raw frame buffer
upto 10FPS conventional shooting (full control)
HDR +/-6 stops/9 frames
10 frame panoramics
1080p60/50 AVCHD 2.0/4:2:2/XDCAM (max quality 35-50mpbs)
slo mo buffer (120fps for 3 seconds at full res)
wireless file transfer
in-body wireless flash control
interval timer
Lens correction
PDAF and CDAF
Tethering
wider AF array
all else pretty much as per A77.
they’ll do me just fine
Mike
2 years ago |Your A99 would be my camera. But for some reason, CDAF is not even regarded worthy to be taken into the poll… I guess voice recognition or 3D LCD display are more important than (optional) accurate AF.
monkeyfacemcbride
2 years ago |CDAF has a great use they haven’t even thought of yet
Mike
2 years ago |Yes. And what is more, it is a feature that was already there in the A580 and is also offered by other companies (Nikon’s “tripod mode”).
X
2 years ago |Sorry, but XDCAM 4:2:2 and 10-bit video are not the same thing.
4:2:2 refers to spatial resolution for chroma samples: there’s one chroma (color) sample for every two luma samples, and so basically the chroma resolution is only a half of video resolution.
4:2:0, the most common output, is a quarter of video resolution, which is fine for most shots, but noticeably blocky for things with sharp chroma edges, like say red text on a white background.
10-bit video refers to color depth of each chroma or luma sample; that is, rather than the standard 8-bit depth in which there are 2^8=256 “steps” of intensity, there would be 2^10=1024 steps of intensity.
Both are important to any videographers like me who do chroma-keying (green-screen) work. 4:2:0 simply does not have enough resolution to do proper chroma key edges… after all, it means for 1920×1080 HD footage, I have only 960×540 of usable video to work with. In addition, 10-bit color depth would enable more precise thresholding in my work.
4:2:2 gives me 1920×540 (actually useful), and 4:4:4, available only on pro video cameras, is heaven to work with.
These features would be really exciting for me if they could be on a small mirrorless camera like the NEX; even my NEX-5 with an HDMI capture device (for 4:2:2 high-bitrate) is orders of magnitude tinier than my studio equipment. Though it’s much less powerful, it gets the job done with less to carry around and it’s way more maneuverable even inside a studio.
But, you know, requests for *actual* pro features are bound to be drowned out by silly requests people can’t pay for.
monkeyfacemcbride
2 years ago |XDCAM 4:2:2 is 10 bit off the head according to the Sony EX team.
Hellven
2 years ago |this is just plain stupid… it doesn’t make any sense!
santela
2 years ago |Looks like FF NEX is the way to go! But then again people who actually visit this site are mostly enthusiasts or just photo geeks. How many cameras are they gonna sell us anyway?
rayheart7
2 years ago |Great Work! Thank you!!
Clyde
2 years ago |The dream camera for enthusiasts is not the same as the dream camera for a professional who’s worked in the business for three decades with multiple systems, analyzing the benefits and drawbacks of each.
I hope Sony never sees this poll.
I hope they bring in veteran pros to discuss how to make a better camera for pros.
I hope they bring in enthusiasts to discuss how to make a better camera for enthusiasts.
I hope they bring in soccer moms to discuss how to make a better camera for soccer moms.
_________
If Sony can’t even make a wired remote or engage tethered shooting for NEX… then I have little faith that anything on this poll will ever become reality. Before sending this poll to Sony, would you ask them why I can’t shoot continuous mode with remote control? Why must I touch the camera to start video recording? Why must I live with the delay of IR remote for stills?
Old cameras from the 50′s & 60′s can use cable remote control. NEX can’t. Not what I call advancement.
SonyA77
2 years ago |You could also ask them why they gave the A77′s EVF the ability to work in the studio and provided a sync socket for studio flash, but took away tethering that even my old A700 can do.
Do Sony EVER give these cameras to current Sony studio shooters, there are a couple of things even I could point out that are simply wrong.
Clyde
2 years ago |They kept the a77 PC sync socket to the left, rather than on the front like a900. Placing it on the front allows the cable to fall nicely in vertical mode, without stress. Putting it on the side causes the cable to bend in vertical shooting, stressing the cable and the socket. It’s also right where the left palm wants to sit, so there’s a jumble of port door and cable junk sitting in the left hand when shooting studio flash portraits.
____________
- Get rid of TTL pre-flash to stop blinks and decrease lag time. Base flash exposure purely upon distance encoding from AF system, and not reflectivity of subject. The camera encodes for distance… that’s all you need for flash, and it’s the most accurate exposure method.
- Allow all cameras to use external transmitter for wireless flash. The built in flash units always have blind spot when shooting vertical and cause half the flash units not to fire. Portraits are vertical and often shot with flash. Too many blind spots for consistent vertical wireless flash control. I put the HVL-20AM on bracket above a900 camera and it solves all problems with blind spots and increases range dramatically. But can’t do that with any other camera with built in transmitter. They don’t allow HVL-20AM for transmitter. Stuck with pop-up flash.
I use a lot of wireless flash… see here:
http://www.ctphotographx.com/studio/studioslideshows/bonniesclyde/index.php#1
This would make a tremendous difference in my work. I’d use the Sony units a lot more (instead of other brands) if they didn’t have blind spots in vertical shooting. 99.9% of my work is vertical for portraits with wireless flash.
- Give us a proper ring flash… a real one.
- Better yet, create a new flash system with interchangeable heads allowing for one controller to accept standard head, bare bulb head, ring flash, telephoto head, and even an invisible IR transmitter.
- Allow user to choose smaller resolution for RAW mode. I don’t always need or want the largest files. But I always shoot RAW. It’s a hassle.
- Allow Smart Teleconverter to be used in RAW. I’d accept this as method for choosing smaller resolution in RAW.
- Put an additional shutter release on the front of camera… Like this old Topcon Super D:
http://www.tradebit.com/usr/manual/pub/9002/TOPCON-SUPER-D.jpg
This would allow for extremely comfortable vertical shooting without the addition of heavy grip that throws balance off. Turn the camera the other way and thumb falls naturally on the same controls as horizontal shooting. That one button would allow camera balance to remain directly over right elbow for perfect balance, rather than a grip which throws balance heavy to the left.
- SONY!!!… If you can’t do any of this, then please at lease create a wired remote for NEX systems. Let me fire the NEX remotely with all drive modes and without delay.
Tom_Tom_
2 years ago |I agree with you Clyde,
I was disappointed to see the results and wonder how many people voting actually have a current a900/850 or use cameras as their profession and how many as just a hobby. But then again this is to take nothing away from the hobbyists and I’m sure it’s a large market.
I just had a dream that Sony will really compete head on with Canon and Nikon in the top level DSLR field and even take a piece of the Medium Format Digital Back market (releasing a 36-50 mp sensor with no AA filter and excellent dynamic range) . To upgrade from a 24 megapixel to a 24 megapixel (with better noise control) makes no sense to me.
To see low noise as the top requested feature I just can’t understand, I’ve never had a problem with it on the current a900? I guess all the “Low noise = high quality” rantings from the pixel peeping forums are having an effect.
Atmo-Sphere
2 years ago |@tom_tom_: If you really cannot understand the need for high ISO performance, you probably think NASA stands for “Numbskull Ape-brain Stupid Assholes” because they bought so many D3s cameras from Nikon..although its mere 12mp was -resolutionwise- already surpassed by other cameras years ago.. .and you probably either make studioshots only ..or have super high end , superfast expensive lenses …and/or only shoot static (non moving) scenes with long exposures from a sturdy tripod which is permanently welded to your camera.
For people like me, who do not own all these $3000+ lenses and who still want to be able to shoot ‘moody scenes’ without tripod or killing it with a flash….high (but CLEAN) ISO is very important. …and …better still..obviously ..even those large budget guys like pro’s and NASA…and most voters here agree with me…so..what does that tell you?
Clyde
2 years ago |Atmo-Sphere… how many images have you taken in the past year that were ruined because of high ISO noise? How many large prints have you made to see the difference?
I’ve published magazine covers and ten page fashion editorials with a 3mp camera. I own an extensive print shop with 54″ wide format and have sold 40″x40″ canvases shot on 6mp cameras.
I’ve run a successful sports photography company that shoots indoors with Sony a200 at 3200iso and sells shots all day long to happy customers.
Not once, ever, never in 30 years of professional shooting has anyone ever claimed that a shot is too noisy or that it should have been captured on a low noise CaNiko digicam. It’s never been an issue except for pixel peepers who never print or publish anything.
Tom_Tom_
2 years ago |@Atmo-Sphere_: What does NASA have to do with the normal high end camera market? And why ask me if I think they are stupid? I’m talking about shooting normal professional grade photos not taking photos of distant galaxies. FYI Isn’t nasa the leader in High resolution imaging anyway? Doesn’t the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have an 800 mp camera? So I think they like high resolution as well no? NASA aside, ok sure I see the benefits of super low noise imaging for hobbyists and pros alike but if you are willing to sacrifice resolution for low noise, then what is the point of trying to buy a big flagship Camera? Why not just buy a low noise low megapixel camera? It would be cheaper no?
Well most voters “here” seem to want the low noise and ok I see there is a market for it, if indeed the good patrons of this site are willing to actually throw down hard money for the a900 replacement.
I hope they split the models in two:
#1) Camera 24 mp low noise +plus pixel binning down to 12 mp for the iso enthusiasts. Make it cheap for prosumers and hobbyists alike
#2) High Megapixel (36-50) no AA filter for the pros who want superb resolution
SonyA77
2 years ago |Wouldn’t it be better to ask Sony what is technically possible within their estimated cost of the camera and then list the choices? Sony could then priorities these realistic options during development.
There could be an option saying I want it to make coffee, but it’s never going to happen.
acolyte
2 years ago |… That should be in the poll..
dts
2 years ago |nex 9 ?
Sol Sims
2 years ago |I’d have to consider this poll a bit premature. Case in point, my main concern in the basic design of an upcoming FF model, is whether or not to go optical or SLT EVF. Until most of us have actully tried out and experienced the latest EVF technology in the A77, it’s going to be hard to say we would prefer that camera design, versus traditional optical design.
So either add ‘Both’ as an option, or wait on this poll.
Andy
2 years ago |LOL who votes for RAW video recording?? that’s ridiculous.
Brandon
2 years ago |Apparently you’re no videographer, because it’s the holy grail, and the main reason cameras like RED are so hot.
FK
2 years ago |VIDEO: Full 24/25/30/50/60p support
I think that technically the cameras will be capable of that
BUT sony probably won’t allow NTSC models to record PAL and the other way round. The reason for that is that the products are marketed for different prices in different regions. This would obviously work against that profit maximizing sales strategies.
VIDEO: RAW recording
I’m not sure what you mean by that it sounds like S-Log but that’s clearly not coming for DSLR’s. I guess they could make a special picture Style for Video Capturing that helps grading and colour-correcting images in post.
VIDEO: 10 bit 4:2:2 HDMI output.
This is not going to happen, as this normally is a Feature reserved for dedicated video cameras. The FS-100E has it as limited replacement for HD-SDI. Even if it should output 422 via HDMI you still shouldn’t expect too much. Look at high bitrate recordings of Canon DSLR’s they still lack of sharpness and detail, and look a lot worse then Sony’s AVCHD. So on paper the improvement could seem huge but it really isn’t.
VIDEO: XDCAM 422 codec
Not even the PMW-F3 does 4:2:2 directly to SxS cards.
C
2 years ago |Even if 10-bit HDMI doesn’t happen, at least recording 10-bit video would be an improvement.
tipper
2 years ago |10% needs a 50 Megapixel Sensor! What kind of fotos will they take with such a resolution? Or they are cropping fans for many postcards from one single picture?
Sky_walker
2 years ago |They just like megapixel race? No idea really. As same as I don’t get why almost all of the people want better high ISOs than currently over dynamic range or low ISOs, as if we wouldn’t have stunning but almost-never-used sensitivities anyway.
usch
2 years ago |I avoid using flash whenever possible. So I often have to resort to ISO 6400 even at f/2.8, or otherwise I would get ridiculously long exposure times. Image stabilization or using a tripod is not an option when your subjects are moving, like musicians at a concert or people at a candlelight party.
X
2 years ago |Very low ISOs are quite nice when you’re in very bright lighting, you’ve bottomed out your shutter to the minimum, and still want nice out-of-focus regions with a big aperture.
Tom_Tom_
2 years ago |Well for landscape and commercial photography high megapixels are much appreciated. Yeah if you are shooting your son’s soccer match then by all means 8mp is enough. If it’s going into adverts and large prints, it’s great to have all the resolution possible.
someone
2 years ago |people who do commercial photography need that, this is not supposed to be a toy camera!
FK
2 years ago |I don’t get that, too.
If you really need to print out huge images then you will end up using medium format anyway. For anything else a good 24 mega pixel sensor should be enough. I mean i can do A3 sized fine art prints form my alpha 700 without any issues, although they might look a little better with a higher resolution from closer but i really don’t see a need for 50mpx, especially not when considering then ISO performance and Dynamic range would suffer from that.
I just had an other idea what might be a cool feature, a built in nd filter that can shift in in front of the sensor. Usually Video cameras have those to have slow exposure times and a higher native ISO for the sensor so that it can be optimized more towards a better iso performance. (The native ISO of the PMW-F3 is equvalent to 800) This might possibly be helpful in Stills photography, too. (Especially if Sony would consider a Model with a lower resolution and a better High ISO performance)
Tom_Tom_
2 years ago |“… If you really need to print out huge images then you will end up using medium format anyway. For anything else a good 24 mega pixel sensor should be enough”
Thats just the point, if the resolution is 50mp and the glass can handle it, which the zeiss glass most certainly can, then one does not have to rent or buy a $35,000 medium format camera for advertising shoots. Hence the Photographer saves money. 24mp is sufficient, but 50mp is even better.
” … i really don’t see a need for 50mpx, especially not when considering then ISO performance and Dynamic range would suffer from that”
Normal range iso/noise not suffer at all. How does dynamic range get effected? Essentially it will be the same dynamic range as a smaller sensor say the a77 only upsized in pixel count. Take a look at dynamic range counts on all brands on dxomark, most of the high scores are with cameras with high megapixel count (some having large sensors and some having high density pixel counts)
FK
2 years ago |The point for dynamic range might be correct at lower ISO but they mostly match each other at lets say an average of around 400 ISO. If you go towards higher ISO’s such as 800 and above Cameras with better ISO performance and bigger Pixels have a higher Dynamic range.
When It comes to the price point you’re only telling half of the truth, it is true that medium format is expensive but you can buy a digital Hasselblad H4D 31 for about 11.000€ while a D3x is 7.000€. On the other hand there are other brands then just Hasselblad, a Phase one P30+ can be bought for 8.000-9.000€ new add an 1000-2000€ for mamiya645 afd III and there you go with an awesome 31 megapixel digital medium format camera.
Have you ever looked at Medium format Studio Images at 100% ? They look absolutely awesome.
OTTO
2 years ago |Missing:
Tethering (possibly also wireless), live view on the PC screen, direct recording to the computer. (This should be also available for the A77)
Costa
2 years ago |I think, this poll is just great! Thanks for this possibility!
usch
2 years ago |By the way, the A77 *does* have 3 “total recall” memory slots. But like the A700 it has only one “MR” setting on the mode dial, and then you have to pick 1, 2, or 3 from the menu.
What I would like to have is either 1/2/3 back on the mode dial, or if one has to go through the menu anyway, there’s no point in limiting the number of memory slots to 3, so give us 5 or 10 or even an unlimited number.
_core
2 years ago |i miss the rangefinder option
sopp
2 years ago |Image quality and dynamic range both are important.
ISO 50 is necessary and High ISO 3200 is OK.
rttew
2 years ago |this is all wishfull thinking. sony will give us what they want to give us, not what we want.
usch
2 years ago |Sony will give us what they expect to be most profitable. If they see that half of their customers are satisfied with 24 MP, that might spare us a 50 MP monster.
Clyde
2 years ago |You don’t have to get a 50MP monster if you don’t want to. But please don’t lower the chances that I could purchase one… I really want to.
monkeyfacemcbride
2 years ago |not so sure about that, despite what people think they listen and listen well. Occasionally they throw in a curve ball like the SLT stuff but not without good reason, it certainly works! but much of the tech in the A77 is what was commented on in reviews for the A700 and what I and many others have been asked about in email surveys from Sony over the years.
Aalpha100
2 years ago |Hey folks please be fair to Andrea!
..
Of course Sony will decide what to make and of course some things are missing (one of my wishes as well) and some others will be “tied” to others for some persons . But Andrea was asked for a poll after asking for the desired features and now he made one. I think it’s great he did. We’ll see what Sony decides to make but I am sure they will give this at least a glance. And if not: so be it. Then we had fun dreaming about the perfect camera (according to us), and a free one at that
Once again: Thanks Andrea!
Turner
2 years ago |A tiltable/shiftable sensor would be nice to have someday.
C
2 years ago |Thankfully people aren’t voting up the XDCAM codec, get rid of this 8-bit-color nonsense in video please. 10-bit is where its at.
Neo NiGHTS ®
2 years ago |Why are some people getting so agressive/sensitive about this Poll? If you don’t like it, don’t answer it. Simple. No need to bash Andrea. And since he DOES have some contact with people inside Sony, why not think that even this (let’s say) innocent Poll can give Sony something to think about?
Since the A77, apparently, hasn’t “wowed” many people like Sony thought it would, MAYbe, they’ll give consumers’ opinion more credit on the next FF cameras.
In any case, chill out, people
Pete
2 years ago |This is completely useless for any product that should come to market during 2012 as these models are feature and technology fixed at this point. Spring models are 100% final, for models with fall introductions some minor adjustments may be possible but only downgrades or feature deletions.
ed paul
2 years ago |i am looking for the option :selectable RAW Size, L M S>?
David
2 years ago |Honestly, ny ideal camera is just a modernized a900. A newer sensor, even better weather sealing, add radio flash triggering, increase the flash sync if possible. Add live view and a tilty screen and I’m happy. The a900 is a brilliant camera. Just modernize it. It can be the base level full frame.
TypeZeiss
2 years ago |he only thing I would have liked to see added is two models. 1. Studio camera, with excellent image quality, etc. 2. a camera that is more in line with a D3x i.e. 24 mp or so, excellent iso performance, fast shutter speed. Something that can be used for sports or more action oriented work or even for journalistic work where iso performance wold have to be great in low light situations and where you can capture action rather fast if needed.
usch
2 years ago |I would go for the lower MP / higher ISO camera. But I am a bit afraid that they would position the lower MP version as a downgraded model which also lacks some crucial features.
TypeZeiss
2 years ago |usch
See and to me they don’t have to do that. They could simply make one a studio camera to compete with something like the Leica S2 and then one would be more a high iso, action performer like the D3x or 1d Mark xx
Cane Elephant
2 years ago |Good work. Thanks!
And again and finally: FF with IS + Phase detection on the sensor!!!
)))
Go Sony, Go! Shake this Swamp!
gaMiNos
2 years ago |If sensor is >= 24Mpxls, I’d also require a “crop” option, to have cropped images of 12Mpxls corresponding to a x1.5 crop factor :
the 16mm pancake on 24Mpxls == 24mm focal length
16mm pancake with crop factor : 12Mpxls == 35mm focal length
We could then frame like having a sensor x1.5 extender?
DKNL
2 years ago |Let’s hope Sony will listen! If they wanna be in the lead, this is the way to do it!
Thanks Andrea!
Renato M.
2 years ago |I don’t really see the point in an ultra-affordable FF camera. what would you do with a hand-capped camera like that? and when they had to think about lenses they would have to think about affordable lenses too? that doesn’t make sense, it seems more like some people’s fetish only.
Mike
2 years ago |Tell you why: a larger sensor has lower demands in terms of lens quality and can give you better high-ISO results.
I do not think a FF sensor actually costs that much more in production than an APS-C sensor. Let’s assume a low-megapixel FF sensor (24 MP) costs $100 than an APS-C sensor (in reality, the difference would be much lower). This would allow Sony to produce something like an A77 with FF sensor for a price not much higher than the A77.
Danonino
2 years ago |“I don’t really see the point in an ultra-affordable FF camera. what would you do with a hand-capped camera like that?”
Hm.. maybe spend more time taking great photos like they did in the old days, all WITHOUT 100 bps, clean iso 256000 and autofocus…
Esa Tuunanen
2 years ago |>I do not think a FF sensor actually costs that much more in production than an APS-C sensor.
And there you are completely wrong.
FF sensor’s size is something like 230% of APS-C and in semiconductors price rises lot faster than size and when semiconductor gets bigger curve just steepens.
In fact 900+ square millimeters required for FF sensor is insanely large for semiconductor which needs to be mass produced for consumer products so real price difference is probably well higher than size increase would lead to believe and will stay that way because the way how semiconductors are manufactured.
Price difference stated in this Canon CMOS sensor white paper probably still holds true quite well because if manufacturing of bigger semiconductor becomes cheaper by certain amount also smaller chips become cheaper in same way:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-7897-8537
passer-by
2 years ago |“I don’t really see the point in an ultra-affordable FF camera. what would you do with a hand-capped camera like that?”
Taking photos?
Tell you what, I rather buy a full frame camera that only has simple metering, aperture and shutter dials over D7000 for the same price.
TypeZeiss
2 years ago |The only other thing I would like to see is instead of Sony creating their own studio flash triggering system, get with Pocket Wizard and create a system specifically designed for the Alpha line. Pocket Wizard has reversed engineered a solution for NIkon and Canon (the flex ttl line of triggers). Sony should save them the trouble and say hey, lets collaborate and come up with a system together.
someone
2 years ago |+1
Renato R.
2 years ago |Great idea, Andrea!
However, there are some options that I really DON’T want the next FF camera to have, like a touchscreen or a built in vertical grip (Canon and Nikon only have one current model with it built in, and a separate option is much more versatile).
Also, many of the options in the poll have been requested features for years now, like tethered shooting.
Moreover, features like full electronic shutter (quiet mode) could be provided as an option, like some Nikon cameras.
Cheers!
www.MilosJanata.com
2 years ago |The pool is pretty clear in the most voted option:
Main improvement should be made in noise performance (58%, 912 Votes)
I am so happy:]
Physica
2 years ago |Well , is it too late for suggestion now?
What i concern for the new FF camera…. is…..
1). VERY HIGH LEVEL OF WEATHER SEAL LEVEL…
- A camera which photographer could be rely on in different situation and weather condition will bring an advantage compare with other system , Olympus do a very good job with weather sealing , you always see some fotog taking some picture in heavy rain , snowy space which a think snow cover the camera , just look at the same level of camera of C & N , non of them have the same weatherproof class even of 1Ds and D3S/X , if Sony could introduce a camera with a weather seal level on par or better then E-5 , plus 1 or 2 high level weather seal lense , people with place a equal mark between FF Camera (of Sony) and Great Weather seal. it will attract some of the fotog to buy it.
2). HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE
I don’t know if new 5D3 or Nikon’s D800 / D4 will have a higher Dynamic Range , but it will be a selling point which could attract plenty of the people to buy it , higher Dynamic range is definitely a advantage especially at high contrast situation.
3). HIGH ISO LOW NOISE PERFORMANCE
Some of the people will buy the 5D2 , or the Flagship class 1Ds and D3 , sometime is buying it’s low noise performance at high ISO. while you need to take some picture for a target in motion at very low light , you need a high ISO speed to keep the Shutter fast enough to take acceptable picture , i’m a EOS 7D Owner , i was very upset while taking a dragon dance event at night outdoor space with a little light only , my fellow using a 5D2 using a much higher iso speed could take a very acceptable picture, while my EOS 7D could not … even in same lens same aperture and same ISO….. High ISO Low Noise Performance is quite important in lot of situation.
4) Overheat Problem
A55 facing a problem of Overheat while taking movie. Overheating is quite a problem for EVF camera as they using their CMOS to observe the view. although it won’t stop you to take still picture , a heated CMOS will effect the PQ for the Hot Pixel …… some astrophotographer will customize their camera with cooler system to allow long time exposure picture. So What about Sony to do something the same? for my view, is there possible to made a inter-cooler which control the temperature to a adequate level? This option will be very useful especially for the country always in a certain high temperature……
Actually for my opinion , the Line could be as below….Three Option:
New Flagship model……A1R (OVF) , A1T (EVF)
-Build-in vertical Grip (not only made it smaller, but also allow more internal space for the hardware)
-duel (or even tri)Bionz processor with large buffer space for burst shot (for SLT it is very important…. High FPS is no use if no buffer space)
-Duel CF card slot or CF card plus
-High Level Weather Seal at least on par with E-5
-19 AF Point AT LEAST
-ISO 100 – 102400 , no need too high , need for performance.
-Internal CMOS Cooling Function (For EVF version), or even a in body Micro-climate for A1 Series. if Flagship series is a build-in version , i think it must have some space for sony to consider it.
Budget Camera….. A99
- EVF (If Sony could introduce a OVF version of A990 , then it could made a comparison , then A1R above is no more necessery, but i think OVF is much more preferable for the pros )
- Single Bionz processor with acceptable buffer space
- 5 FPS is acceptable,
- ISO 50 – 25600
- CF Slots , or CF + MS duo/SD?
- Internal CMOS Cooling Function
For Both class camera , no need to join the high-pixel competition but please concentrate in the PQ side . Then it will be very promising for the C/N user to made a change.
Aalpha100
2 years ago |Yes too late, sorry! This is the poll…
acolyte
2 years ago |Yeah, late. The suggestions thread has 400+ comments.
EddyH
2 years ago |I do hope that the Sony engineers have seen the episode from The Simpsons where Homer can design a car (“Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?”) before they start to interpret this survey and start working on the next FF.
)
(in case you haven’t seen that episode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_Brother,_Where_Art_Thou%3F, http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/The_Homer)
Meeklo
2 years ago |Missing GPS
and missing Bluetooth so that I can have my phone upload files to the web as I take pictures. PhotoTweets?
martin lai
2 years ago |Add option: remove limitation on using old Manual Lenes, (like M42 lense without electronics contacts)
i.e. at least :
1) A-Mode work on Old Manual lense
2) have in-focus indication
3) in-body Image Stabilization for old Manual Prime lense ( allow Manual input the Focal length of old lense e.g. 50mm, 85mm, 135mm …)
passer-by
2 years ago |Doesn’t Sony already fix this with release-without-lens option?
martin lai
2 years ago |1) does not have “lense Focal Length Information input” means in-body Image Stabilization cannot work
2) release-without-lens is fixed, but usually no in-focus indication
3) many new models must use Manual mode, can’t use A-Mode
acolyte
2 years ago |Please minimize the suggestions as this is a poll thread – It’s confusing reading the suggestions.
It’d be nice to hear reactions to this poll. You had a thread for the suggestions already. Now it’s time for reactions. I have to skip reading those.
C Web
2 years ago |very long confusing poll which misses the basic point:
We (many of us anyway) want an M9 alternative. We want a nex-7 sized full frame camera. We want to be able to use M mount lenses on it.
Just like the nex-5 busted open the aps-c market, so will a small FF bust open the FF market.
If weather proofing and in body IS make the camera bigger, forget it.
First, last and forever: the formfactor!!!
danny
2 years ago |Nr 1 = Main improvement in noise performance , this should make Sony think as most people have the poor A77 noise performance in mind, I’m sure. Do they really think Canon/Nikon owners will switch to Sony with the ‘groundbreaking A77′ after reading all the reviews on the net? I wouldn’t and I am a Sony owner.
emopunk
2 years ago |Of course they won’t switch. First for the IQ issues, and second because Sony (and SAR amount of rumors confirmate it..) is going to suppress A-mount as soon as possible in favor of E-mount. The latter is more easily sold in supermarket.
DchB
2 years ago |Good Lord! I knew when SONY took over from MINOLTA that this could be real good, or real bad! You can guess where I am coming from when I say that all I really want is a 16 MP FF Maxxum 7D or a900!! SONY HEAR ME! WE DON’T NEED AN ELEPHANT GUN TO SHOOT MICE! WE DO NOT NEED A PHOTOGRAPHIC SWISS ARMY KNIFE! MAKE A CAMERA FOR US SIMPLETONS PLEASE! ENOUGH OF THE BS!
Thank you Andrea for the poll, it was very enlightening…
passer-by
2 years ago |Buy 2nd hand 6mp camera. It’s for you who don’t need an elephant gun to shoot a mice. Others really need it because they hunt elephant.
DchB
2 years ago |You know, I did just exactly that a few years ago, and my Maxxum 7D has been a total joy to use. However, like anything else, it has a lifespan, and mine is starting to fail unfortunately. I am not suggesting that SONY do NOT make an elephant gun for those who view themselves as elephant hunters. I am just stating that there are those of us out here who have more modest needs, and we should not have to be forced to buy something that we do not or will never need. I think that after operating a professional studio for 22 years, I have shot more than a few elephants in my day. It seems that my needs are more modest now, and I would really like SONY to consider that, as I am quite sure that there are many many more just like me out here. We couldn’t care less about bragging rights over Canon or Nikon. We just love our Minolta glass, and would like to continue using it. My guess is that 16 MP is about the outside limit of what my old glass is good for, and I have no desire to spend thousands of dollars more for SONY or Zeiss lenses. I have been reading SAR for years now, and for the most part it is enjoyable. However,lately it seems to be overpopulated with those who would spout a whole bunch of technobaffelgab just to impress their buddies. Maybe it would be nice if they would consider someone elses needs and not try to dominate the overall ambience of the site. All I would like to see come down the pike is something like the a580, only FF and with 16 MP’s. That is just about all we would need, and it certainly would not have any influence on the elephant guns’ sales. I would like my Soft Focus 100mm lens to be 100mm, and not 150mm. I would like to use my 16mm fisheye lens again, but do not wish to pay $3000.00 for a body to attach it to. I do not need to impress anyone. Been there, done that…Just want to enjoy my Minolta glass again…know what I’m sayin’?
passer-by
2 years ago |Ermmm.. 2 models with different pixel count should solve your problem(and maybe many others too). Just like D3s – D3x.
But Sony is no Nikon and I doubt it will behaves like Nikon too. Sony usual offering consists of 2 model with the same sensor, with crippled cheaper model.
We will see what Sony has to offer in their upcoming FFs.
vlad theodor
2 years ago |Where is my mp3 player !???
Bubba Satori
2 years ago |Geez, what a bunch of whinging, useless ingrates complaing about the poll.
Just don’t take it and shut up.
I found it very useful for prioritizing important features for a new Sony FF.
Thanks SAR. The effort you put into the poll is appreciated by me.
Mike
2 years ago |I believe that the result of the poll could actually reach Sony’s product managers and might even be considered. So that’s a good thing and of course I appreciate it.
That being said, I find it disturbing that the poll doesn’t let you choose an important feature that even here in the comments has been requested by three different users (in about 80 comments, so that’s about 3-4% of commenters requesting it). And of course, in the initial thread I requested the feature to be included into the poll, which sadly has not happened. On the other hand, the poll includes several options that up to now have not yet received a single vote. This makes the choice of options appear somewhat arbitrary and just distorts the result of the poll.
matgay
2 years ago |wow everyone seems to want a weather sealed camera. a850/a900 were very well weather sealed – but it didnt matter. the weather seal was pointless, because the lenses offered by sony/sonyzeiss/sonyg were NOT weather selaed.
Carl
2 years ago |They’ll just have to release some new full frame lenses with sealing then, wont they?
Aalpha100
2 years ago |No but the first one is there and even Sigma is moving there. SO things look bright!
emopunk
2 years ago |I am afraid that most of the things photographers wish will soon be true in upcoming Canon and Nikon FFs.. Maybe Sony will put out another high density sensor like the one seen in A77..
www.MilosJanata.com
2 years ago |There is absolutely no doubt that they can just exchange A65 sensor for FF and produce FF camera with same features for 1100$, still with great profit.
The problem would be inter company agreements.
JS
2 years ago |While this is an impressive list, I don’t care to wait another 3 years for Sony to reinvent the wheel. I’d be quite happy for an a900 v2 with live view and maybe better high ISO performance. If they want to add a new and improved sensor, great, but how long would it take to deliver a single FF camera with the top 20 options from this list.
But I’ll still be waiting and watching SAR
passer-by
2 years ago |Half of the options are unreal. For example the global electronic shutter. How could Sony put it into their new sensor if the tech is not available yet? I know a company that makes CMOS with a global shutter but Sony’s rep already stated that such tech is “years to come” in DSLR sized sensor. It is not about Sony doesn’t want to use this kind of tech, they just can’t.
Holy Bear
2 years ago |The best way to tell Sony what people want : Don’t buy A77/NEX7…..
If all you want is details and don’t care about high ISO performance , a Sigma camera with FOVEON X3 sensor would be a better choice than A77/NEX7
Sporeo
2 years ago |Yes, please keep making those kinds of comments based on pre-production jpg comparisons.
someone
2 years ago |Auto ISO in Manual Mode? How stupid is that? That makes absolutely no sense at all!
monkeyfacemcbride
2 years ago |actually it makes a lot of sense if you want to freeze motion and dictate depth of field but dont have all the time in the world to play with settings (e.g macro photography of insects, wildlife photography etc). It allows you to lock two of the exposure variables and let the camera take care of the third. Although I didn’t make this suggestion, I did see the posts where it originated and the intention is to allow the selection of Auto ISO in manual if you want, if you wish to dictate the ISO, then that option would still be available to you. At present Sony cameras will not allow selection of Auto ISO mode if you switch the camera to manual and that can be an unnecessary limitation which is easily fixed in software.
passer-by
2 years ago |With Pentax camera it is called Aperture + Shutter priority Mode, in other words, ISO is adjusted automatically while aperture and shutter are fixed.
IMO manual is manual adjustment for averything.
usch
2 years ago |How stupid? Not much more than any other automatic in “Manual Mode”.
The term “Manual Mode” originates from back in the day when the only automatic in a camera was shutter speed, aperture, or both, and selecting both manually truly put the camera in an all manual mode. But nowadays “M” is actually a misnomer because it allows you to select fixed values for aperture and shutter speed, that’s all. It doesn’t turn off autofocus, auto WB, auto DRO, or auto flash metering, and it makes no sense to override the auto ISO setting with a fixed value either.
Biff
2 years ago |They should have a dial mode preset that looks like a meatball for the 90% plus sony shooters on this forum that are NOT pro’s, but more like soccer moms & meatheads that complain about ISO performance and show samples of their cats and bookshelves. LOL
HAHAHAHA
nuxar
2 years ago |useless poll… Mostly completed by P&S’ers who will never either buy or use FF.
Carl
2 years ago |Perhaps, but there’s definitely some people here who own 850s and 900s.
Clyde
2 years ago |There is a difference in owning one and making a living with one.
Poll should separate enthusiasts from pros from soccer moms. Different criteria altogether.
For instance… over at Dyxum.com lens ratings, you list other equipment that your rating is being compared to. That gives a good frame of reference to consider the comments against. And members post photos all the time so one can judge their skill level against their dream wishes.
Carl
2 years ago |Photography is both an art and a business, and not everyone feels that the business side is the more sacred of the two.
It would be a sad day when Sony focuses completely on commercial requirements and not on making their cameras make nicer images.
Clyde
2 years ago |Art is a business Carl. Anything less is a hobby.
Old school bloke
2 years ago |Andrea,
Thank you for your hard work and your valuable time.
I hope Sony will continue with OVF & no movie mode for the next FF camera.
Leaving the other FF camera to have EVF with movie function.
But at end of day it’s down to Sony and market strategic in this current world finance crisis economics.
Best wishes.
seb
2 years ago |worst poll ever !
Sahaja
2 years ago |This poll would have been far more meaningful if we could have ranked (1-20) our choices or weighted (must have, nice to have, not interested, don’t want) them – also some info about the respondents would have been useful (professional photographer, serious enthusiast, (vacation photographer, etc. …) and type pf photography sports/action photographer, portrait photographer, landscape photographer, etc. …) and whether they currently use a full frame dslr, are seriously considering one, or are just dreaming.
Too many of the choices overlap as well.
Sahaja
2 years ago |If, as rumored, Sony are introducing a new full frame camera (or cameras) early next year then they were probably designed months ago and some are already being tested (at least they should be by now). So any poll won’t change much, except what can be changed in firmware.
More good lenses for these cameras please
My December
2 years ago |Most people wanted better high ISO noise performance. They should go Nikon.
passer-by
2 years ago |You said what’s in my mind.
Clyde
2 years ago |Dare I say it? Dare I not?
Sorry all, but high on the list for must have future Full Frame feature for me is… yep, you guessed it:
WIRED REMOTE
(and I don’t reserve that for Full Frame only… all future/current cams should have it. Better to speak now rather than be disappointed later.)
reinz
2 years ago |hope new full frame sony will price at $1500 with a good image quality and low noise, more than a77 and the same body build and feature on that camera like a77 ^^
C Web
2 years ago |Again, such a crazy list kills the priorities.
Right now the M9 is the only FF camera I could even consider carrying–and I would love to shoot FF.
All the rest are huge. If Sony wants to make another huge one, I don’t care, but I can’t use it. If they make a Nex-7 sized FF, I would buy it right away, and many many others feel the same way. Keep the register short so we can use the M glass, and get your microlenses tuned so we can use the wides. Then you have a winner.
TT
2 years ago |I need an improved A900, seriously I don’t like translucent technology, and I don’t like more pixals, better high ISO noise performance, and with HD video.
By the way, birng the Zeiss 50 f1.2 to the market. Then I will buy one. The A77 just sucks,too many bugs. Are you crazy SONY? Otherwise,I go for Canon.