VG900 gets in the line of fire…
Sony NEX-VG900 Sample Movie from soul_vid on Vimeo.
EosHD posted that shootout comparing many cameras cameras including the Sony NEX VG-900. But he is very harsh about the Sony: “The reason people like full frame sensors is for the image quality not the spec sheet. I really do feel it is full frame for the sake of it here with no real advantages for video especially when the image from the 5D Mark III, Nikon D800 and much cheaper D600 is so much better. What is bizarre is that the Nikon’s have Sony sensors and yet do better video than Sony’s own cameras.”
And SAR reader Francesco shows in a video the difference between the two LA-EA2 and LA-EA3 adapters (here on youtube). The LA-EA2 gives you full electronic support but doesn’t cover the full 35mm image circle. The LA-EA3 covers the full Full frame area but it doesn’t support autofocus with SIGMA lenses (and face detection also doesn’t work of course).
Guys…what do you think about these findings?
joe
6 months ago |not surprised, putting a 24megapixel sensor suited to photos in a camcorder body is just ridiculous. the cost of the VG900 is absurd given what it can do, might as well pay 1000 more for a FS100 now that price dropped.
REVENGE
6 months ago |Oh god, what a fiasco. I can hardly believe those sample images are really from the VG900.
Set
6 months ago |Thanks for the post.
Yep, I just downloaded and saw both of tests on my 40″ LCD display. – as for EosHD sample, I rerender crop (originally 2.5k resolution – for BMC full-res raw sample) to 1080p resolution.
The most noticeable surprise comparing image is just this one:
http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/bmcc-vs-vg-900.jpg
When directly compared in this version, it reminds me to Sony HDR-FX1 (or Z1) time, where image sensor is just 960×1080.
BUT, when I watch soul_vid’s sample, seems fine, looks good.
Try looking for a focused subjects in far away – just like eoshd’s, so far it’s nice.
The question will be, is there any possibility for bad mount and the lens shift / not properly attached ?
— Need other comparison, reviews, and tests, especially with other Canon/Nikon full-frame lenses, using already-available e-mount adapters.
Alan
6 months ago |is real this come from VG900? cause i heard alot ppl that having VG900 say that it having serious moire and aliasing problem and also example for it. But in this video it’s totally stunning and quality, even if it is record by uncompressed hdmi output i also willing to spend the money to get one..but alot review just let me worry this VG900 is not worth to get, getting another a99 i would be alot more worth if it can give me no problem on video. i had do a test on my a99 continuous record 1hour 30min to 2 hour without overheat and even not giving out warning sign then i stop the test, cause i believe it will go more than that for sure without problem.
Set
6 months ago |@Alan, if you want to try A99, perhaps you can also try make the image similar to eoshd’s test, similar distance, just as presented in 00:27-00:55
just a bit curious…
Mark
6 months ago |I would say that’s not surprising at all. I picked up the VG10 when it was released, and aside from the camcorder form factor, there’s no advantage over the NEX 5 except that it can record for longer times with no threat of over-heating. It’s a prosumer device, meant for people to easily do larger sensor video, but nothing meant to compete with pro video systems for discerning film makers. So, I wouldn’t expect the VG900 to be that much different from performance versus other cameras.
The VG line seems like a “why not” product line for Sony. They know there’s a market for it, but it’s not huge so they make the product as a derivative of the NEX line but don’t develop it into anything that would stand on its own. So the video performance is ok, but not optimized to compete like the A99 would be (and why should they, there’s no competing product on the market for the VG900). The VG line also seems to have the least support for firmware updates. If you want large frame video and don’t want to screw around with setting up a mic or focus system (hard to anyways with the VG mic placement), then it works well. If you want to do more serious shooting it’s better to shoot with the NEX 5n/6/7 or the A77/99 cameras from Sony.
The issue with Sigma lenses isn’t new, it even goes back to the Minolta days. As I understand it has to do with Sigma reverse engineering the Sony/Minolta lens without licensing the technology and specs from Sony directly, and this causes conflicts when Sony releases new products. Sigma then has to update their electronics, exactly like when software companies have to provide updates when operating systems are updated by Microsoft or Apple to ensure their products keep working correctly with technology advances. I have a Sigma 20mm that stopped working when Minolta released the 7D DSLR, I would need to send it to Sigma to get re-chipped to work with the newer cameras (this was usually offered at no charge).
NEXfive
6 months ago |Yes, the NEX-VG900 is disappointing from the video point of view, but hey, you get a mirrorless A99 with E-Mount if you don’t mind the form factor
Slaven
6 months ago |Seems that RX100′s video quality much better then vg900, LOL!
Jurka
6 months ago |I own rx100. Video quality is better than a99. Only dynamic range on a99 is best.
monkeyboy
6 months ago |One thing you guys need to remember.
Andrew Reid is biased towards only the cameras he owns (GH2,GH3,BMCC,5DM3).
You can shoot great footage with VG cameras.
davey
6 months ago |I thought he still owned some NEX stuff, he’s given good reviews to NEX and RX100 cameras, and I also believe he has and uses an FS100. He hardly seems biased against Sony in general. I think he was just very excited about the idea of the VG900 initially, and then very disappointed by the results he got.
Jurka
6 months ago |I shoot video. I need autofocus, motorzoom and a good stabilization.
VG900 has nothing of it.
Nothing!
A99 has bad stabilization (okay, i later shoot some video for you!) And it goes unusable for me because of that.
Austin
6 months ago |Am I missing something or did that video look nice
joe1946
6 months ago |Get the 18-200 power zoom lens with optical IS if you want all that in APS-C crop mode. It cost $900 more over the VG30 body and should be available soon for the VG900.
Francesco
6 months ago |As maker of the comparison with the two adapters I have to add some informations to the friends of this usefull website:
1) the problem of vignetting doesnt lie in supposted problems of compatibility between SIGMA LENS (full frame of course) and SY VG 900 but in the Adapter LA EA2 thought for cameras (of SONY NEZ line) with littler sensors inside.
2) the pity the REAL pity is that withouth a NEW LA EA2 adapter it’s unpossible to use the camera with any kind of automatic functions as only Alpha lenses are FULL FRAME ready not the ones made for E mount and only with Alpha lenses ( I have tried also my Samyang series and the problem of vignetting still is here) you can reach the full potentials of the camera in full frame mode
3) So you rae compelled to work or in manual using the adapter wich goes with the camera for alpha lenses (the LA EA3) or in automatic BUT IN CROP MODE both with e mont lenses (whituoth adapter) and with alpha lenses with the old translucent adapter LA EA2
Whta I WANT from Sony is the make as soon as possible a NEW ADAPTER with translucent technology BUT with the right size of the mirror and of the hole in oder to support a full frame footage withouth any kind of problem
It’s simple and I’m waiting for a reply
barri
6 months ago |Does this mean that the video on my A99 is just as lousy as EOSHD shows for the VG900? That would be sad…
I am mostly a still shooter and haven’t used the video much, but this way they won’t outcompete the EOS 5D series ever…
Chris
6 months ago |I’m having issues with my A99 video, my Nex5n shoots better video with the same lenses and its so bad Sony tech asked me to send in my camera so they could check it out. Since I’m within my 30-day return window, they’re shipping me a new A99 immediately.
I love the A99′s featureset, the stills are just eye popping, the DR and IQ just amaze me. But the video has been a letdown, unacceptable for a $2800 pro camera that’s touted as a video monster. If the new camera cannot outperform my 5n, I think I’m just going to get a GH3 for video and go all in on M43.
I really want to like the A99, its darn near the perfect camera for me. But I make money off producing videos and commercials and if the A99 can’t perform I can’t justify keeping it.
Portreti
6 months ago |Here is Sony Alpha 99 video stabilization sample 70-200 mm, steadyshot ON, direct upload to youtube: http://www.portreti.lv/sony-alpha-a99-video-stabilization-review-video-sample-steadyshot-on/
me
6 months ago |This video from soul_vid is made to impress, and the best made video to hide the problems of the NEX-VG900:
- the shots were carefully planned, 8 lenses were selected depending of each scene, (for the 50, 85, 135 fixed lenses the model was at the right distance)
- the lenses used were mostly the finest available for A-mount (but it didn’t help much to have good sharpness, colors, or to be good in low light): Carl Zeiss (24-70 F2.8, 135 F1.8, 85 F1.4), Sony (70-200 F2.8, 50 F1.4) and few shots were made with the other lenses (E-mount 18-200 F3.5-6.3, 30 F3.5 Macro, Canon 24-70 F2.8)
- a lot of bokeh was used, maybe around 95% of the shots have the background out of focus (this reduce the chance to see the low sharpness, low colors, bad moire)
- the camera, or the model, was in motion most of the time (this reduce the chance to see moire and aliasing, but I saw moire in 3 scenes)
- the shots are short in seconds (this reduce the chance to analize the image, so I watched with the reduced speed in video player)
But even with so good planned shots, good model performance, good directing, good lenses, good motion, short scenes, the image from the camera (the 1080p downloaded file) shows lots of noise in low light, poor sharpness, poor colors, bad moire, on a 42″ TV.
This camcorder is useful for bokeh scenes, because of its Full Frame sensor, this strong bokeh can hide several problems, but NEX-VG900 is poor in low light.
For such romantic videos, also with lot of bokeh, a low sharpness from VG900 is not something bad on a 1080p TV. For people who want that their videos to also look great in the near future (4K) a higher sharpness than of VG900 will be better (and to not look soft on a future 4K TV).
Sure that the sharpness in video from NEX-VG900 is poorer than from NEX-VG30, because of 24MP (NEX-VG900) vs 16 MP (NEX-VG30). NEX-VG30 will have the same sharpness with NEX-VG20 (which is already poor, measured by CamcorderInfo and Slashcam).
Panasonic has higher sharpness (GH2/GH3), less moire (GH2 few moire, GH3 average moire) and it is better in low light (GH3) than NEX-VG900.
The problem is that the SLT cameras and the NEX-VG camcorders are treated by Sony as consumer cameras, and made such to not compete in video with their professional camcorders.
With the same lenses, the same image from this video can be obtained with the A99, which is cheaper and have more controls for video and photo than NEX-VG900. NEX-VG900 doesn’t have the option to increase sharpness (or to decrease sharpness to reduce moire and aliasing).
Like with the NEX-VG20, some people will be happy with their NEX-VG900, others not. I’ll wait for a 4K version of Sony NEX-VG or SLT (4K converted to 1080p will resolve the poor sharpness from Sony consumer camcorders and cameras).
About the comparison made by EOSHD: I think that his NEX-VG900 findings are correct.
Jurka
6 months ago |http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vepvUKe_4A8
Jurka
6 months ago |This is just about Sony A99 video stabilization.
Maybe good for you, not for me!
Ricky
6 months ago |What is wrong with the video? It looks like it’s digitally zoomed even in 1080p… My A65 doesn’t even do that, if your 99 is doing that, something is wrong. Maybe contact Sony? I don’t think all A99′s are doing that..
it looks like something is vibrating in the camera, Are you holding it like in a massage chair?
Jurka
6 months ago |I agreee, my alpha 65 do better stabilization, but it is a99.
And, of course, video is cropped, digital stabilization works this way!
I have not any kind of Sony or Nikon real support in my country, here is just Canon.
Nikon 10-100 lens repair i ll be waiting 3 months.
Fuk video a99, i just bought Sony EX1 and enough experimented wth dslrs!
stringer
6 months ago |Your video is doing the jitter from stabilisation perhaps.
I bet you are on Auto video mode? as I can hear the settings changing automatically at some point.
You need to be concious of your shutter speeds to avoid this.
Set your shutter double your frame rate. Sometimes even at 25p I set it to 1/100 and it certainly gets rid of what you’re experiencing.
Downside is that you will have to increase your ISO.
You will not get Autofocus in manual mode so it might be of no use to you.
The AF in video on the Sony cams is a gimmick anyway as any real user would set the video and the focusing to manual control.
Alan
6 months ago |i have one a99. i duno whats wrong with the video, i think it set to digital zoom then record the video or something else make it look so bad. But i own few sony camera and i really love this a99 in video. The stabilization in a99 i test out is very good, i handheld walk with it and it record a satisfy result that i want. I do own a glide cam, after use stabilization and glidecam record my video, oh, i only can say it is the best stable video than i had before. and as well as i had test the continuous recording time for the overheating issues. i had continuos record 1hour30min to 2 hour, it never get overheat and not even giving me a temp warning sign on screen. (i stop test it after 2 hour, cause i already very satisfy with this stunning result and i believe it can go many more hours again. rarely or i should say no other dslr can easily continuos record that long!
Francesco
6 months ago |To add futher thoughts about my findings in the vignetting problem I have to say that the solution is in hands of Sony. It’s be sufficient to make an adapter with the internal dimension of A99 traslucent mirror (large enoght to cover the 24MO sensor in 35mm mode) to solve the problem at last.
What I cant understand is that this problem has NO MENTION in the user manual and it’s not correct from Sony.
I do think that Sony has to rethink about its politics in the consumer e prosumer area where with more attention to detalis the company could gain space trnsfering its competences in pro world to more massa market.
Idoru
6 months ago |Just to put things right: The VG line in itself is a genious idea. It is the best option for many low budget documentary makers amateurs or semi-pros, especially for online production. The image quality of the VG10 or VG20 that we own is superb, with good lenses you can not really differentiate from a 5D, but you have a great form camera, small sitze, good handling, excellent audio quality and easy usage, with hours of recording time unlike dslrs with ridiculous limits (that also need a lot of rigs and compromises). So I was really looking forward to the logical continuation, the full frame model. It seems though from these few (and probably to some extent biased) reviews that It did not work out as well as expected. hopefully Sony will learn from its possible mistakes and improve the camera with firmware updates or puts out a new version later. The bottom line is that it’s a good direction, and it still has a lot of potential in it. (those who talk about using the NEX 5, 7 or 6 serioulsy for video may have overlooked the fact that these cameras may overheat after an unpredicted time, be it 20 minutes or 2, so they are absolutely iunreliable, hence useless for serious video work)
Francesco
6 months ago |I totally agree with you Idoru and what you said is the reason why I choosed the VG900 but now I’m waiting for some serious replies from Sony about my serious concerns about usability of the camera in FF (the reason why I bought this model)not quality of the footages I have still to investigate for at the moment even if the problem of moire exista but I do think it could be cottected by firmware updates.
My concerns about the adapter may be solved only making a new one
Francesco
6 months ago |HERE E dialogue from my YOUTUBE CHANNEL were the video is published:
geoffzp2p writes:
“francesco…thanks for your post.
1. i looked at these 2 adapters with the Sony/Zeiss 24-70mm lens and didn’t notice any vignetting with that particular lens…so perhaps the Sigma is not a ‘full-frame’ lens and can only be used in ‘crop’ mode.
2. i also noticed that the ‘focus-assist’ does not work with the adapter that comes with the camera body and you have to buy ($400) the mirrored adapter for it to fully function in full frame mode.
that is a rip-off by Sony…as far as I’m concerned!!”
I replies:
“The sigma 24-70 is full frame.
The problem is evident you have only to choise the 35mm mode in your setup anf it will appear instantly.
I went to KIPON importer who lives in my city in ITaly and they say that the trasnlucent mirror in the LAEA2 adapter is TOO SMALL to cover the FF sensor.
I have as you have understood both adapters the LAEA3 that comes with camera and the LAEA2 (402$ at B&H) with the traslucent mirror. I repeat in CROP MODE with LAEA2 traslucent all works BUT only in CROP MODe NOT in FF where the dimension of the screen create the vignetting
I’m totally sure about this concern
Set
6 months ago |Not just LA-EA2, 3rd party CanonEOS to NEX e-mount adapter suffers the same thing.
http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter
I have Nikon adapter, and it’s just simple adapter – I guess I won’t suffer from vignetting issue, except now the sensor quality, how good I can expect from it.
Rcteague
6 months ago |How’d all of ya get through the music
Bad Shots
Bad Camera
Bad Music
=
The camera could actually be (used for a family vacatio video) ok…but the shots and the music are killing me
Francesco
6 months ago |The video was made in 5 minutes outside my workplace in the Hospital with NO ARTISTIC CLAIM but with the only aim to show the problem of vignetting. The only reason to put it on Youtube and to signat it to Andrea of SAR was to share this informations among the users.
I’m really aghast about comments on quality I never was looking for
PS the song is one of the most famous latino-american ballad and it is great to my ears sorry for the ears of Rcteague
Set
6 months ago |Francesco, thanks for your test.
That should be enough concerning to vignette issue.
I guess I personally better wait for 2nd generation of FF VG (VG910? VG950?) with these issues fixed, also what eoshd mention. – just a thought that this may also caused by translucent mirror on EA3 adapter.
May not uncomfortable yet for my general use, especially my field is run-n-gun style event coverage – not a planned shots.
NEX-VG30 is 3rd generation of the line, should be not much different expectation to VG20, as I have satisfied with vg20.
By knowing the limitation of vg20, I can still achieve good result with it.
The step up from this class where you can have customize color profile goes to Sony NEX-EA50, came from Sony pro division. Then finally, FS100, a more suitable image sensor (Super35 rather than APS-C) for motion video.
Francesco
6 months ago |set, I have bought the VG900 mine was not a try but a finding with my own VG900.
As I owm a series of lens from Samyang with A mount I was prepared to use the camera in manual mode and when you make documentaries it is better tu run in manual.. ok… BUT.. the option of AF and FD sometimes may be usefull and iot’s a pity you cant use it on VG900 in 35mm mode and MOST OF ALL it’s a pity thta Sony never mentions this problem in its papers about VG900
I have bought a camere sure to have AF (when needed) in FF and now I have for AF a sort of Ibraimovich VG20 in my hands whitouth golden paltes around…
Really hope that Sony will solve this concern
ssrdd
6 months ago |it has a unprofessional codec. AVCHD is no good.
joe1946
6 months ago |Sony NEX-VG900 Making Movie , Original .MP4 file (1920×1080 / 481MB) available for download :
http://vimeo.com/54180819
Frame grab from above VG900 movie :
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8219385074_bdf9044178_b.jpg
The Sony sample movie Original .MP4 file (1920×1080 / 882MB) available for download :
http://vimeo.com/54131282
Fannie
5 months ago |Have you ever thought about including a little bit more than just your
articles? I mean, what you say is important and everything.
However think about if you added some great images or videos to give your posts more, “pop”!
Your content is excellent but with pics and videos, this website could certainly be one of the very best
in its niche. Fantastic blog!
Toby de Jong
4 months ago |Do not buy this camera for video, I did and its terrible in every way, I was lucky to get my money back.
fails in sharpness, dynamic range, and worst of all the moire and aliasing problem make it worthless to anyone other than a home handy-cam. So disappointed, I ordered the GH3
Fotografowie
3 weeks ago |I appreciate, result in I discovered exactly what I was having a look for.
You’ve ended my 4 day long hunt! God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye